Nougat ,

Full text of the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution, passed July 9, 1868.

Consider for a moment why the Fourteenth Amendment exists. It was drafted and adopted as a direct response to the US Civil War, which ended May 9, 1865. Many US states attempted to secede, leaving the United States to form a completely separate nation, and they did so to preserve legal slavery. The Fourteenth clarifies a number of things which the Confederacy used to justify and execute secession.

Section 1 makes all native born or naturalized people citizens, and the specific purpose was to make African-Americans citizens, with the full rights that citizenship carries.

Section 2 eliminates the three-fifths compromise, where each five slaves were counted as three "persons" for the purpose of representation in the House of Representatives. That was always a shitty compromise, because the slaves states got to have their cake (slaves with no rights, including the right to vote) and eat it too (but we get to count them so that we have greater power in the House). This basically made votes from citizens of slaves states, and their representatives in the House carry more weight than votes in non-slave states. (We still have the scale-tipping electoral college doing the same thing then, and today, but to a far lesser degree).

Section 3 is the part that's being pointed out as pertinent to current events in 2023. This was important in the aftermath of the Civil War in order to prevent secessionists who had held office prior to the Civil War from holding office again. "Did you take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, and then break that oath by engaging in insurrection or rebellion against that Constitution? You don't get to be in charge of anything governmental ever again." That "disability" exists, it does not require a trial, it does not require indictment, because in 1868, it was plain to all who was bound by this disability. But it clearly just exists, because a vote of two-thirds of each House of Congress can remove it. Donald Trump is absolutely not the only person to whom this section can apply. I would expect some state to prohibit Trump from the ballot on this basis, and then for that to end up before Congress for that vote. The outcome of that vote would determine the future of the United States in every meaningful way.

Section 4 basically says, "Hey assholes, you're going to have to take part in paying the expense of having to put down the rebellion you started, and you're not able to claim any expenses of that rebellion, and we're not paying you because you lost your slave labor. Fuck you."

Finally, section 5, "If this wasn't clear enough, we'll make it clearer with additional legislation."

JoeTheSane ,

The best case for the country is Trump quietly passes away in his sleep.

When he runs, no matter what, there will be violence. Something will not go his way, he will make some unsubtle plea for retribution, and people will get hurt.

Actually, no. Even quietly in his sleep would be seen as some kind of conspiracy, and people will riot and hurt others. Hell, even if he had a heart attack just after admitting guilt on live TV, with his weirdo doctor examining him DURING the event and saying, "This is a heart attack that Donald Trump is having", it would STILL be seen as a conspiracy and innocent people will get hurt.

The problem is not that fat orange fuck. It's the circumstances and people that allowed him to become their avatar of hate and ignorance. They are still here and primed for violence.

Col3814444 OP ,

Nah, I want that corrupt evil fuck to die in agonising pain, after decades in prison, but that’s just me.

HandsHurtLoL ,

I agree that we need something to stop the hate machine, but it occurs to me that there are still people who carry water for him that in the event of his sudden absence and power vacuum, another toady political figure is going to immediately take up the reins. I wonder how many decades it will take for the reverberations of Trumpism to fade. The Whigs existed in America well until the Civil War... and has even been revived in the last 10 years.

GrimChaos ,

He should not be able to run based on the disqualification clause of the 14th amendment because of the instruction.

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:​

“No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.”

be_excellent_to_each_other ,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

Am I the only one who thinks another Trump run is the best possible outcome for Democrats? That or him running third party.

I acknowledge and recognize the 2016 hubris that got us here, but it's not 2016 anymore, and I don't think you will have well-meaning folks thinking how bad can he be. At this point he's going to get votes from the trump faithful and a smaller chunk of R who are still willing to hand him power, I'd imagine.

I don't claim any particular expertise, but while I do want him convicted and don't want him as president, I think I'm OK with him running for the office one more time.

calabast ,

On the other hand, if the GOP went with desantis or someone else, a number of the die hards might not vote Republican at all. It’s hard to say how it’ll all shake out.

EDIT: Oh, I see you mentioned him running third party. Yeah, that might be the best case scenario for Democrats.

be_excellent_to_each_other ,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

I actually think DeSantis would be almost as good for the Dems as Trump would be - but I get the feeling that even R has figured out he's a bad play. I could be wrong of course...

nicetriangle ,
@nicetriangle@kbin.social avatar

Yeah I mostly agree but I think regardless we’re in very dangerous territory this election

be_excellent_to_each_other ,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

Totally fair point.

HandsHurtLoL ,

I think a Trump 3rd party run is the only surefire Democratic victory. I believe that a Trump GOP run will mirror 2016 in which the popular vote is a razor thin (yes, I'm calling a 3-4 Million lead razor thin) victory overshadowed by the electoral college.

I seriously worry about the Cornell West Green Party campaign splitting the Democratic vote for Biden. Biden isn't my first pick, but I would have preferred to see West try to primary Biden and then once West gets any traction, platform planks can be transplanted into the Dem platform. That is not even a possibility for this 3rd party approach.

Also, Jill Stein was a Russian shill to disrupt Sec. Clinton so I can't believe Cornell West has thrown his lot in with the Green Party.

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