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Hairyblue ,
@Hairyblue@kbin.social avatar

It is going to be the wild wild west. Could you imagine everyone carrying a gun around with the emotions and misunderstanding people have.

kuontom OP , (edited )
@kuontom@kbin.social avatar

We don't need to imagine it, we're literally living it. There have been more shootings than days this year - two mass shooting incidents just yesterday in Maryland and Kansas. It's already gotten to a point where we treat it as a normal thing and move on to other headlines.

SpaceToast ,

Not trying to argue, but how many shootings happened in constitutional carry states vs not?

I guess I can look it up myself when I get home, but it’s something worth discussing.

I know there are many gang shootings in states with strict gun laws, and more gun laws prohibiting law abiding citizens doesn’t change that.

kuontom OP ,
@kuontom@kbin.social avatar

Fair, I'll look it up as well. There are a lot of varying statistics on this so I will just check the ones from this year listed on Wikipedia against the 25 states with permit-less carry (before Florida), and the 25 without and get back to you.

kuontom OP ,
@kuontom@kbin.social avatar

In 2023, 139 mass shootings in permit-less carry states, 182 in non.

Florida - 17

Permit-less carry mass shootings count by state:

Alabama - 4
Arizona - 4
Arkansas - 4
Georgia - 14
Idaho - 1
Indiana - 7
Kansas - 4
Kentucky - 4
Maine - 1
Mississippi - 13
Missouri - 11
New Hampshire - 1
Ohio - 16
Oklahoma - 5
Tennessee - 13
Texas - 31
Utah - 1

Total - 139

Other states:

California - 29
Colorado - 6
Connecticut - 2
DC - 4
Illinois - 21
Hawaii - 1
Louisiana - 17
Maryland - 14
Massachussetts - 1
Michigan - 9
Minnesota - 4
New Jersey - 7
New Mexico - 3
New York - 7
North Carolina - 17
Oregon - 1
Pennsylvania - 18
Puerto Rico - 3
South Carolina - 9
Virginia - 5
Washington - 4
Wisconsin - 5

Total - 182

Excuse any +-1 errors.

SpaceToast ,

Appreciate you.

Seems pretty close to even. It’ll be interesting to see if that changes over the years or stays about the same.

As a NJ gun owner, I think meeting in the middle is the most sane option.

Here you have to jump through so many hoops and practically need a law degree to make sure you don’t accidentally commit a felony.

NotMyOldRedditName ,

Numbers like that would probably need to also be adjusted for population. Not sure if you just eyeballed that or not.

Alabama's 4 would be like 31 in California.

Which in that case is roughly similar, but who knows about the rest.

Bluskale ,

This sort of data absolutely needs to be normalized per capita to bear much meaning.

kuontom OP , (edited )
@kuontom@kbin.social avatar

A small number per capita in a state would not invalidate the fact that people died because of mass shootings. The acceptable number of mass shootings is 0. The points I'm making are 1. that gun laws need to be stricter everywhere regardless of blue/red state, permit carry/not, or any other classification criteria, and 2. Fuck Ron DeSantis

Cali has made it easier for the state attorney to sue firearm industries. Something positive to celebrate in the way of gun control.

HandsHurtLoL ,

The data is in. Red states have far more gun violence than blue states.

SpaceToast ,

According to that article, 54% of those deaths were self inflicted, which is a whole separate issue. It doesn’t show anything about shootings with innocent victims. That’s my point. Does constitutional carry actually turn states into the “Wild West” any more than states with stricter laws? According to the other reply I got, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

HandsHurtLoL ,

If you aren't including the increased availability of firearms and its outcomes for even self-inflicted death, you're slicing the pie in a very particular way to create a narrative.

Suicide and mental health issues are worth addressing, especially because men are more likely to use a firearm to commit suicide than women are.

SpaceToast ,

I’m not “creating a narrative”. Please leave the unnecessary attacks on Reddit.

The topic was whether this would turn states into the Wild West. I’m almost positive suicides weren’t the kind of death they were talking about.

HandsHurtLoL ,

The fact that you keep saying "constitutional carry" instead of "permitless carry" already belies the fact that you're likely to push a specific agenda on this topic that isn't data-driven.

So if you charge me with leaving the unnecessary attacks on reddit, I charge you with leaving the disingenuous debate from the right on reddit.

Kill_joy ,
@Kill_joy@kbin.social avatar

Gun shot is a gun shot is a gun shot.

You can't just say "don't include the victims who died in X way". More guns=more deaths any way you slice it.

AbidanYre ,

Many towns in the “wild west” wouldn’t let you carry in town.

The gunfight at the O.K. Corral was over carrying guns in town.

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