Honestly, I’m not too sure. That instance (if I understand correctly which one you’re talking about) is too widely defederated to have a major presence. I think it’s just the redditors, considering that those who got banned there are more likely to migrate.
Preddators is part of it, but the problem with accepting pedos is that they don’t just stick to themselves, they spread out and infest the place. The instant they feel safe on a platform, even a fraction of said platform, it’s only a matter of time before they take over entirely.
I downvoted this. If you can point to anything Israel is doing that qualifies as genocide, I’ll retract my downvote. I’ve asked half a dozen times, here and on Reddit when people casually accuse Israel of genocide, and all I’ve got is basically “OMG how can you ask, don’t you know they’re doing bad things!”
Yes they’re doing bad things. War crimes? Certainly there are plenty of examples. Bombing civilians? Absolutely. Occupying Gaza again? No question.
Genocide? WTF are you talking about? They’re attempting to exterminate the Palestinians, and/or eradicating their culture? How? Where are the death camps? Where are the crematoria? Where are the videos of mass executions, or the mountains of bodies and bones? At the very least, where are the reeducation camps, where Israelis are attempting to teach Palestinian kids to speak Hebrew, as in Xinjiang?
Why not make the headline “We know this is not a war, it’s a cannibalistic feast!” Or “this is a Satanic orgy!” Why pull punches? If you’re making shit up, why stop an genocide?
I downvoted this. If you can point to anything Israel is doing that qualifies as genocide, I’ll retract my downvote. I’ve asked half a dozen times, here and on Reddit when people casually accuse Israel of genocide, and all I’ve got is basically “OMG how can you ask, don’t you know they’re doing bad things!”
Okay I'll bite. Trying to remove a people from their land Armenian genocide-style is also genocide, but admittedly it can be iffy. It is 100%, no question, ethnic cleansing though.
The West Bank: Settler violence with tacit (or public depending on the reigning government) support from the government, along with forcible confiscation of land for use in settlements, has been a thing in Israel since 1970, and the goal has always been to create "greater Israel". I'm not using the terms ethnic cleansing or Lebensraum lightly, but they both apply here. I think when literal pogroms are happening and the government does nothing except punish Palestinians who fight back, we can say the West Bank is undergoing a slow-burn genocide (or slow-burn ethnic cleansing if you object to the use of the word genocide).
Gaza: This. Add in far-right politicians (aka the ruling government) calling Palestinians human animals and calling on other countries to take them as refugees and you can see what's going on. The current Israeli government represents the people who had to be expelled from Gaza at gun-point, and they're out for blood.
Edit: There's also this if you wanna see an expert talking about it.
Thanks for the earnest reply. I’m not convinced, but it’s refreshing not to just get downvotes and insults.
Trying to remove a people from their land Armenian genocide-style is also genocide
The thing that made the Armenian genocide a genocide is that the Turks killed somewhere between 0.6 and 1.2 million of a population of 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey. The forced relocations were just an implementation detail. If forced relocation on it’s own was genocide, then the Soviets would be responsible for like a dozen genocides.
There has always been a strain of Israeli politics that has been striving for “greater Israel”. It’s never been dominant, but I think there’s a real concern that a genocide (in the traditional sense) might occur there, and I think you could claim conspiracy to commit ethnic cleansing. Israeli politics is ugly, and the fundamentalists are scary. Still…calling the current conflict a genocide is misleading and hyperbolic as hell IMHO. But that’s what it’s called all the time, without question, and people get furious if you ask what, specifically, they’re talking about.
It reeks of propaganda. I can’t take people seriously when they casually throw the term around. Talk about the terrible things that Israel actually is doing instead.
The thing that made the Armenian genocide a genocide is that the Turks killed somewhere between 0.6 and 1.2 million of a population of 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey.
Israel is trying to do in Gaza what Turkey did in Armenia. It's just that they haven't succeeded yet.
RAZ SEGAL: Thank you for having me.
I think that, indeed, what we’re seeing now in Gaza is a case of genocide. We have to understand that the U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide from 1948 requires that we see special intent for genocide to happen. And to quote the convention, intent to destroy a group is defined as racial, ethnic, religious or national as such that is collectively, not just individuals. And this intent, as we just heard, is on full display by Israeli politicians and army officers since 7th of October. We heard Israel’s president. It’s well-known what the Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said on 9th of October declaring a complete siege on Gaza, cutting off water, food, fuel, stating that “We’re fighting human animals,” and we will react “accordingly.” He also said that “We will eliminate everything.” We know that Israeli army spokesperson Daniel Hagari, for example, acknowledged wanton destruction and said explicitly, “The emphasis on damage and not on accuracy.” So we’re seeing the special intent on full display. And really, I have to say, if this is not special intent to commit genocide, I really don’t know what is.
From the article I linked above.
And, well, I hope we're on agreement on the West Bank part because even if we assume it's not genocide in the traditional sense it's the textbook definition of ethnic cleansing.
Well, but basically what you’re saying is that the genocide in Gaza exists in the hearts and minds of certain Israeli leaders. The Israelis have had the Palestinians at their mercy for decades, and they’ve been…supplying them with free water and power. Doesn’t seem very genocidal to me.
I agree that there are some scary government figures. I wouldn’t doubt that some of them have genocidal desires. But they’re counterbalanced by the fact that, in the end, Israel is a liberal country. And if the standard for ‘genocide’ is that some government officials harbor or express the desire for genocide, then the list of countries in the Middle East that are not genocidal would be a pretty short list.
What’s happening in the West Bank is wrong. You could, at a stretch, call it ethnic cleansing, but usually that term is reserved for government policy in land it controls. Extremists creeping across the border to settle and claim land, with the goal of driving the Palestinians out–to the annoyance of most of the government in power–doesn’t really fit the mold. I mean, the attack on Israel was executed by the governmental body that can best be claimed to represent the Gazans, with the eventual intent of driving all Jews out of the region, per their officially stated policy. Is that therefore ethnic cleansing?
The Israelis have had the Palestinians at their mercy for decades, and they’ve been…supplying them with free water and power.
Because Palestine (including Gaza, as much as Israel would like you to believe otherwise) is under the occupation of Israel. Not supplying them with water and electricity would be a crime against humanity.
I agree that there are some scary government figures. I wouldn’t doubt that some of them have genocidal desires. But they’re counterbalanced by the fact that, in the end, Israel is a liberal country. And if the standard for ‘genocide’ is that some government officials harbor or express the desire for genocide, then the list of countries in the Middle East that are not genocidal would be a pretty short list.
You should read the article; it gets to this point. There are genocidal actions (attempting to drive Gazans out of the Gaza strip, remember the warning to evacuate North Gaza?), and genocidal intention (taking the Gaza strip for Lebensraum). Together, these are genocide.
but usually that term is reserved for government policy in land it controls. Extremists creeping across the border to settle and claim land, with the goal of driving the Palestinians out–to the annoyance of most of the government in power–doesn’t really fit the mold.
Netenyahu literally campaigned on legalizing settlements, and the first settlement was taken by a military order. Settlements are also provided security by the IDF. Settlements have the tacit, or sometimes public, support of the government. And can Palestinians defend themselves against them without incurring the wrath of the IDF? The answer is no.
Tacit government support is still government support. You should research the history of settlements before saying they're to the "annoyance" of the current government. If they didn't want it to happen they should arrest these people for murder, armed robbery and terror, but they're not.
Not supplying them with water and electricity would be a crime against humanity.
So they’re simultaneously committing genocide, and carefully avoiding violations of international law?
Again, I’m definitely not saying Israel has done nothing wrong. I’m specifically pushing back on the casual and irresponsible claims of genocide.
including Gaza, as much as Israel would like you to believe otherwise
In what way were Israelis occupying Gaza before the attack in October? Not with troops, right? They controlled the border pretty tightly, but it’s not Gaza’s only border. So…by what mechanism were they occupying it?
The settlers in the West Bank are a problem, and their relationship with the government & people of Israel is complicated and messy. To be clear: they’re wrong, they’re fundamentalist religious assholes, and to the extent the government supports them, the government is wrong to do so. I can totally get on board with that criticism!
I don’t buy the claim that relocating people is a genocide. Many genocides do involve relocation, and relocation on it’s own may well be be considered a crime against humanity (especially if there are signs that it’s permanent), but it’s a different crime than mass extermination.
