spez_ ,

We deserve shares when we join. Give us a slice of the pie

TempermentalAnomaly ,

Reminded me of this Office Space scene.

Toribor ,
@Toribor@corndog.social avatar

And yet businesses try to convince you that you’re part of the family and we’re all in this together. Work your ass off by coming in early and staying late all year? Good job here’s a 2% raise. Nevermind that is lower than inflation and the extra work and meager raise actually lowers your hourly equivalent if you’re salaried.

If businesses really want everyone to go above and beyond they need to pay people in equity. Why else would anyone give a shit about the long term success of a business? They certainly have no loyalty to their employees.

lanolinoil ,
@lanolinoil@lemmy.world avatar

They do that if you go work in young industries. I think once the pie has been divided up and sold between rich guys 2000 times and there’s no more hyper growth, there’s no more pie to give out. So you have to move to models like bcorps, like a King Arthur Flour, or be evil.

bhmnscmm , (edited )
@bhmnscmm@lemmy.world avatar

This is also a shift from when older generations were young: In a 1995 survey by the consulting firm Wyatt Co., under-30 Gen Xers — the “works sucks, I know” generation — were actually the most satisfied with their jobs than any other age group.

That answers the main question I had after reading the headline: did all generations feel this way at this age, or is this unique to Gen z.

Edit: just read the about the 1995 survey referenced in the article. It’s pretty interesting. reason.com/1995/05/01/heh-heh-work-is-cool/

snooggums ,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

Am on the tail end of Gen X and when I started working even low pay allowed me to afford a place to live, food to eat, and doing fun things occasionally. While work sucked, it at least paid the bills and allowed the freedom to live. Plus there were still some companies that offered actual long term perks, tried and keep people with experience around, and promoted from within.

Gen Z still gets the low pay, but are treated as expendable, and can't afford anything and so it is understandable that they would hate working in comparison.

The_v ,

Want to have fun. Look up where you lived as a young adult and calculate how much it would cost today.

First wage out of college 28K. In two years it was up to 42K. Since it was a government job, I can look up the wage today. Start is at $37K, in two years its $55K

Studio apartment $650/month then, $1,800 now for the same place. Included heating and electricity and a awesome view from the 22nd floor.

Car with 30K miles on it, $185/month plus $50/month insurance. Now $550/month plus $200/month insurance.

Groceries $150/month (I ate well). Now $400/month.

Student loan, $50/month. Now $200 per month.

Phone (landline). $40/month. Now $60/month cell phone.

Take home when I started, around $1650/month. Expenses $1,125. 2 years later when I was making 42K, take home was around $2,450. I paid off the student loans, the most of the car, and had a ton of fun, traveled, dated, and eventually got married.

Today take home would’ve around. $2,150/month and the cost of living as I did would be around $3,010. Even after 2 years I could barely squeak by with around $3,200/month take home.

Blackhole ,

You can’t have a serious conversation when you lie or embellish numbers.

I’ll cherry pick two things.

  1. Cell phones are less expensive monthly today than they were 15 years ago. You can get unlimited everything with some carriers for 30 a month. 15 years ago it was 59.99 for 1200 minutes, free nights and weekends, and 2000 texts. Internet was another 20 a month.
  2. A car with 30k miles isn’t 550 a month right now. I have a 45k car and part just over 600 a month. I bohlught brand new, and spend way more than u needed cause I’m lucky.

You can buy a used car with 30k miles for under 20k if you want. Maybe not a BMW suv, but there’s not what we are talking about here.

Inflation is up. Wages are lagging. But let’s not lie about shit to make a point.

The_v ,

Facetious argument. Try asking what I included in my estimates.

Look up a basic midrange plan on a major carrier plus data, $45 with taxes & a cost average for $500 phone across 3 years ($13.88). Comes to around $60.

As for the car, without asking what type of vehicle I was pricing out and the loan terms you have no clue. Think midrange with 700 credit score (recent college grad without any credit history to speak of). I was at 11.5% interest, on my first vehicle and a 8.5K loan over 5 years = $186.75 payment. Average price of a midrange low mileage vehicle today of the same quality is around $27K (looking to buy one for my teenager). With an 8.5% interest rate 5 year loan that comes to… $553.95 per month…

Your 45K car for around 600 indicates your loan is around 41K and you decided to take a longer than 60 month terms. Likely an 84 month term ($613.80/month) at 6.75% interest for 790+ credit. Which was not even offered 20+ years ago because it’s a stupid thing to do. A 41K loan at 60 months would be $841.18 at 8.5% interest rate FYI.

Blackhole ,

Lol, ok bud. I can tell you’re not interested in a good faith conversation.

The_v ,

Got nothin huh… What a lame attempt to save face using an ad hominem attack.

Yawn… Boring.

Blackhole ,

I’m just not interested in arguing on the internet. A conversation is fine, that’s clearly not what you want.

Knoxvomica ,

Eww, yeah you’re definitely not looking for a “Conversation”. No one who says that is ever just truthfully looking for a conversation. You’re looking for conflict.

PrinceWith999Enemies ,

Reason is a hyper pro-capitalist libertarian magazine who, in an interview with then-governor Ronald Reagan, implied he was too liberal because he didn’t think fire departments should be privatized.

I wouldn’t trust them with this kind of survey, in other words.

bhmnscmm ,
@bhmnscmm@lemmy.world avatar

I just linked to the Reason article since that is what the OP article links to. A different organization actually performed the 1995 survey.

Although, I haven’t been able to find the original survey with a very brief Google search. So maybe take the Reason summary with a grain of salt.

PrinceWith999Enemies ,

Yeah, all I’m saying is to take it with a grain of salt.

When a publication like Reason writes about a survey that backs their narrative, it’s possible that it came from a conservative organization (and so might have crafted the study to produce the results they wanted rather than having an impartial scientific approach).

The other likely possibility is that they cherry picked a survey that happened to have the results they want. Even in scientific surveys there’s going to be variability, and it’s never a good idea to base an opinion off of a single survey for that reason alone.

lemmylem ,

Increase minimum wage

TIMMAY ,

clickbait

IHeartBadCode ,
@IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

I guess I'll interject with personal experience so take everything that follows as, my most humble opinion of things. I have zero expectation for anyone to agree.

Gen X myself, I am currently in a position that I am completely happy with now. That did not come without a massive fight. This is quite literally my 6th job in my field (system's programming) and now the second longest I've stayed with a company. Quoting from the story:

Without the promise of high returns for their loyalty, Gen Z has learned to follow the money

And this should be people's default until shown otherwise. I cannot count the number of times I've heard "it's just business" in the course of my various jobs. At the end of the day, your employer is looking at bottom line most times. One should not invest themselves into any relationship when the other is simply looking at the piratical ramifications of the relationship and not the broader nature of that relationship.

It's about the money and being able to pay for living expenses, which is reasonable. The dollar went a lot further when baby boomers were entering the workforce. It doesn't go as far now.

Yeah, while suffering when sufferable was okay when a taco was under a buck, dollar doesn't go anywhere today. The amount of time to have shits and giggles with an employer on actual compensation is about seven seconds today. When I first got into the field being underneath the region's average for X number of years wasn't unheard of. And for me, it was all cool because shit was cheap. Today, being under the region's average for a position needs to be measured in X minutes, not this year shit. Employer's that want to play games, Gen Z should not budge for a second on the matter.

When a raise and promotion don't hit swiftly, Gen Z is quick to jump ship

I'll say this. When I got to my current position, I knew right off that this was a good company. How? I can't really put a finger on the how, but having been in two jobs previous that were hyper toxic, I had a feeling. Now, I still didn't play games coming in though. I indicated exactly what I expected and that the job couldn't be "all hands on deck" 24/7, 365. That's just shitty management. I gave them six months to show me the money and if it didn't come through I had every intention to hit the door at the 121 day mark.

There was still friction, no meaningful relationship doesn't have those moments, but the things I was indicating was actually being taken serious, and compensation for kicking ass on my end was forthcoming. If your employer doesn't like talking money with employees, you're going to have a lot of friction and I'm not telling anyone what to do, but employer's feeling uncomfortable with the topic of money should be a red flag for you. If that's the straw that breaks the camel's back or just a stone in the wall for you, that's your call. But in my opinion, employers that get squishy about the word money shouldn't be employers. Not with how this world currently is. Maybe we can go back to the "ha ha ha" playing coy game when a significant percentage of a person's paycheck doesn't have to go for simply feeding themselves.

But Gen Zers "haven't lost the passion for what they want to do,"

And I have never thought they have. The Gen Z that I oversee are some of the best workers I've ever dealt with. But the world isn't allowing them to be slacking on ensuring that proper compensation is constant. Inflation is eating away any kind of raise I can give them as fast as I can give it to them. As far as I have seen, Gen Z is some of the best workers to date to come out of the woodwork and it's actually kind of shitty they cannot have the environment to flourish that I had at their age.

Again, from my personal experience, I think there's a lot of management that's still in the lax mood of how employment might have worked back in the day. When a few years under the line of compensation was just the name of the game. But the game has seriously changed and a lot of the folks my age and the boomers as well are still stuck in "the way things used to be™" and it's so bad right now, no one has time for that anymore.

As I've heard so often, it's just business. But I think employers have been so used to the giving that advice, they are completely at loss when receiving it. The Gen Z I've worked with, and it may be different for others, but the ones I've worked with and the ones I currently manage, they're some of the hardest workers who take everything they do as personal value and will be some of the best employees IF YOU ENCOURAGE THEM AND COMPENSATE THEM.

I too dislike that the world has become really centered around pay. But to quote some Tolken:

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

Treat your folks like people, and the rest mostly falls in place.

doublejay1999 ,
@doublejay1999@lemmy.world avatar

Well death at work is down, so there’s that.

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