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gravitas_deficiency ,

I’m a staunch progressive, but if she somehow becomes the nexus of a new “reasonable conservative” party in the US, I would honestly love it. I disagree with her on nearly everything - especially domestic matters - but she and I both apparently actually give a shit about small-d democracy, and that’s something I can actually work with.

btaf45 , (edited )

Yes I very much respect the minority of conservatives who are loyal Americans instead of power mad neofascists trying to subvert our precious 245 year old democracy.

gravitas_deficiency ,

If people are ultimately willing to abide by the rules of democracy, they’re not a lost cause - they can be negotiated with.

The line is drawn at dogmatic, slavish devotion to the idea of power at all costs with complete disregard to democratic processes. That isn’t something you can have a debate with.

admiralteal ,

A conservative's loyalty to America comes from a desire to maintain traditional values, social orders, and hierarchies of people.

They don't deserve respect. The ones who deserve respect are the ones trying to protect the rights of individuals, maximize the social good of all people, and foster an environment of progress for the future -- the liberals, socialists, and the progressives, that is. People who declare themselves conservative stand in opposition to these things by definition. They do not want things to change for the better because they do not want things to change at all unless it is going backwards.

I'll take the allies I can in this existential fight, but I have zero respect for anyone who's proud to be a conservative.

be_excellent_to_each_other ,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

Yes I very much respect the minority of conservatives who are loyal Americans instead of power mad neofascists trying to subvert our precious 245 year old democracy.

If there were more than 5 of these unicorns Trump wouldn't have done so well in 2020, and Republicans in congress wouldn't be the clown show that they are today because of the pressure they'd have been receiving from their constituents.

The current state of Repubican leadership convinces me that the only pressure they are getting from their consituents is to go harder with facism.

I hope she fractures the R vote also. But I'm not going to forget what conservative America has enabled and continues to support to this day.

admiralteal ,

Or she could just caucus with the Dems. Have exactly the same official platform, a lot of influence, and show the courage of her convictions by truly rejecting fascism.

She doesn't do so because she does not fully reject fascism.

Nougat ,

Yeah her policy platform would be diametrically opposed to a Democratic platform.

admiralteal ,

Explain to me what policies McCain advocates for that are so incompatible with the Dem party platform that it can come even close to being a "diametrical" opposition?

Is it her desire to police uteruses? That's not an issue the dems have historically cared to do anything about in spite of myriad opportunities to protect the right to control your own body. She'd hardly be the only anti-choice democrat.

She changed her mind on opposition to same-sex marriage. She's helped pass gun control packages. The only thing she's been vocal about is being anti-Trump, and the best way to defeat Trump is not as Republican and is CERTAINLY not as an independent actor. Hell, running third party will probably increase Trump's odds.

Nougat ,

McCain?

admiralteal ,

Sorry, Cheney. Same fucking difference, those two. They're both snakes that don't have the courage to do what really needs to be done to put an end to the rise of fascism -- abandon the party and ideology of fascism.

Nougat ,

Pretty sure the reason one of them doesn't have the courage is because he's dead.

admiralteal ,

I'm fine with killing off Cindy McCain, but don't misgender her.

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