You are only browsing one thread in the discussion! All comments are available on the post page.

Return

Veraxus ,
@Veraxus@kbin.social avatar

Yes, Bernie, we know. We will because we have no other choice. Because of how absolutely broken and corrupt our entire political system is, we can vote for a ideologically repugnant lame-duck conservative or a literal fascist.

No matter how much we hate Biden and the DNC's corrupt, self-serving conservatism, we still have two brain cells to rub together and do, in fact, understand that "both sides" are most definitely NOT the same.

HobbitFoot ,

Yeah, both sides aren’t the same. How do you deal with the 20% of the country that want a fascist government and the 30% who are ok with it as long as it keeps taxes low and punish the “right people”?

I’m just venting in my reply to your comment; this isn’t a criticism of what you said.

themeatbridge ,

How do you deal with them? With patience and honesty. You talk politics, make it OK to discuss things without demonizing people who disagree with you. If it’s impolite to discuss politics, then only the impolite will share their political opinions. And you know who benefits? The fascist. They want the opposition silenced by propriety. They want the extremes to be the loudest voices, because it paints the picture that both sides are unreasonable.

Don’t avoid the subject. Dive headfirst into it, and be prepared to resist the urge to roll your eyes or get emotional. Be calm, be rational, and be direct. Conservativism is a fungus that grows in the darkness. In the conservative mind, they are the heroes, and everyone else is evil. You won’t win that debate with logic. You have to use the gray rock method, and prove to them that you both disagree with them, and you are not their enemy.

HobbitFoot ,

The only decent tactic I found is to focus on having the government being the arbitor of who is a good person.

You also have to argue against the programming that relying on any unearned government assistance is bad. So, the best way to respond is asking if there should be a qualification that anyone working shouldn’t get the same benefits of someone who is broke.

It isn’t perfect, though. There is also a lot of tribalism.

abraxas ,

Unfortunately, there’s a reason cult deprogrammers are heavily trained. If you’re not an expert, the above behavior can have the opposite effect, helping reiterate to them that their crazy positions are actually reasonable and acceptable. The worst thing you can do to a cult member is acknowledge their beliefs respectfully. The second worst thing you can do is insult them. See the problem?

You have to use the gray rock method, and prove to them that you both disagree with them, and you are not their enemy.

This is the problem. When someone holds a belief that is not ok, telling them that is “ok” doesn’t work. You’ll be “one of the good ones”, but it’ll end there.

themeatbridge ,

I didn’t say that you should tell them it’s OK. You can tell someone their ideas are outrageous without getting emotional or argumentative.

SkyeStarfall ,

I’ve tried basically everything under the sun with ly parents and family. Including variations of this.

It doesn’t work.

If someone is as set in their ways and conspiracies and worldview. There’s no getting them out if it, if they don’t already want to. They just come up with whatever counterargument or idea that makes sense to them or supports them. Real or imagined. Facts and reality literally don’t matter.

About the only thing left I’m gonna end up trying to do is to effectively give them a form of ideological shock, which may end up just shattering their worldview. Not exactly intentional, mind you, but just by living my own life. Maybe having their child be something they’re supposed to hate will shake up their foundational beliefs enough to question things.

…or it may not. Probably the more likely answer.

themeatbridge ,

Yes, and I’m very sorry you’re dealing with that. You’re right, you’re not going to fix a conservative mind. The strategies I mentioned are recommended to protect and preserve your own mental health, not to fix theirs. Set boundaries, identify gaslighting, disengage emotionally from their outbursts, and protect your self esteem from their whims. It might help them recognize their issues and improve their relationship with you, but there are no guarantees.

Agent_of_Kayos ,

This is the same reason I talk about how much I am paid with my coworkers

Sure it makes sense that someone here longer than me will get more, but of two people are hired at the same time and one is making $3,000 more (My own experience) then it’s bs

Psythik ,

Yeah try telling that to Hexbear and see how well that goes for you lol

Millie ,

Good thing hexchan’s take is totally irrelevant!

VolatileExhaustPipe ,

You really seem to hold a grudge. Is it a grudge aimed at the right persons and is it a grudge to hold at all?

Psythik ,

If you spent 5 minutes on Hexbear you’d understand.

VolatileExhaustPipe ,

I think you and OP really need to get some tools to deal with your emotions. I spend 50 hours there (and in actually vile places) and yet I do focus on stuff where I can have impact on.

Awoo ,
@Awoo@lemmy.ml avatar

This user is completely making shit up about Hexbear.

hexbear.net/post/451217?scrollToComments=false

Psythik , (edited )

Good point lol

variaatio ,

However recognise also… nothing is solved by voting biden in instead of Trump. Since the issue isn’t Trump the person, but the wider politican movement. There will be next trump after this trump and next trump after that trump. Names change, the situation doesn’t.

It’s just kicking the can down the road for another 4 years. Nothing more, nothing less. US voters and system really need to do some hard long term thinking and planning to come up with a plan to actually solve the issue. Instead of keeping kicking the can down the road for 4 years at a time. Since again (as with Trump in 2016) the can doesn’t get kicked along for yeat another 4 years. Instead when USA goes to kick the can, it is actually this time a glass bottled molotov, that bursts in flames upon being tried to be kicked yeat again.

Wooki ,

You throw corrupt around like it has meaning when it’s nothing more than compromise. It’s compromise in order for the party to get into power, not corruption… conflating the two is ignorant to the fact DNC wouldn’t not get into power ever without it.

Welcome to the democratic process.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • [email protected]
  • All magazines
    •