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notannpc ,

It would be cool if we had another candidate that didn’t suck instead of relying, once again, on voting for anyone but Trump.

Because I don’t think most people are voting FOR Biden, as much as they are voting AGAINST Trump.

Poggervania ,
@Poggervania@kbin.social avatar

It was the same in the 2016 Elections too. Most left-leaning people I talked to did not want Hillary in office, but they wanted Trump not in office more than Hillary - so a vote for Hillary it was.

Honestly, both parties fucking suck, and it sucks even more that our options are literally “right-leaning centrists” and “fascism”.

doctordevice ,

Neoliberals need to get this through their head: a sizeable minority of us do not like the Democratic Party and don’t believe we are represented by them, regardless of whatever empty rhetoric they spew. Sizeable enough that you can lose elections without us. We are not a long-term reliable voting bloc and you need to learn tactics other than bullying and fear-mongering to get your way.

To abuse a metaphor, Hillary Clinton and her primary shenanigans were the straw that broke my back. Donald Trump and what he represented was bad enough that I managed to muster enough energy to vote for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020. But I’m tired, and if I’m able to muster the energy for 2024 it’ll be the last time. I’m done voting for people that I do not want to be my president. It doesn’t have to be a progressive, but give me someone I can stomach or you can leave me out of your election math.

And the tired refrain of “Biden is the most progressive president ever” isn’t a consolation prize, it’s salt in the wound.

Uranium3006 ,
@Uranium3006@kbin.social avatar

once the republican party dies, the democratic party is in big trouble for exactly this reason.

burntbutterbiscuits ,

He isn’t though. By a long shot. Biden is right of center

doctordevice ,

I agree, that’s why that phrase is salt in the wound. It’s said by neoliberals who themselves are right of center but don’t realize it. They seem to think it’s supposed to make progressives feel better.

affiliate ,

it’s interesting to think about the damage trump has done to the progressive movement simply by “commandeering” 3 election cycles in that way. because the consequences of him winning are so catastrophic, we’ll end up with 12 years of presidents that were either trump or centrists hailed as the best way to beat him. just to clarify, i’m not trying to downplay the damage he’s done in other ways, nor how terrible it would be if he were elected

i wonder how much easier it would have been to elect a progressive if the past 3 republican nominees had been evil in a more mild and traditional way.

abraxas ,

You say that, but Biden dominated the Primary in 2020. I wanted Warren. I’d have been ok with Bernie. But I have to admit, Biden just had so many more votes.

The US is filled with conservatives. Most Democratic voters are simply sane conservatives. Biden is their idea of a good candidate. An economic neoliberal that believes in modest safety nets and personal freedom when not at the expense of others. More importantly, he believes in compromise (something Democrats need because their constituents are not single-issue voters, and often have different opinions on the issues)

It would be cool if more people were more progressive in the US. But the media doesn’t really want to make that possible.

VolatileExhaustPipe ,

Even if you take the parliamentarian, electoralist position about the primary in 2020 then you have to look at the structures and power bases before you can (potentially rightful) stretch the result to opinions.

Party internal politics mean that there will often be votes being cast strategically influenced by functionaries, mandated people and the old guard.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s all democracy ever is. A check to keep the worst people from being in power. Non-democracies don’t have this, you have to use violence to remove bad people from power. And most likely die trying to do it.

They really should tech in schools how voting really works. Figure out who the worst one is, and vote for the one that is most likely to beat the worst one. You never get everything you want in one election cycle, you have to keep on voting again and again and over a few decades you get some progress. It sucks but it’s better than the alternatives.

That’s why voting is a duty, it sucks, but you have to do it.

Zagorath ,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

Are you aware that voting systems other than First Past the Post exist?

emergencyfood ,

Are you confusing democracy with first-past-the-post voting? Democracy is rule by, or at least for, the people. First-past-the-post is a very old, simple and rather primitive way of choosing representatives that, as you said, is just a ‘check to keep the worst people from being in power’. Newer, more representative systems such as proportional representation and approval voting are better at choosing actually good parties / candidates.

Ensign_Crab ,

That’s all democracy ever is. A check to keep the worst people from being in power.

I think ours might be broken.

grayman ,

They should run Obama. Not that one. The other one. But Hillary would probably have her murdered.

norbert ,
@norbert@kbin.social avatar

At least she'd lose a few voters by doing it, not like some other clowns eh?

grayman ,

The whole thing is a circus. All clowns.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

There’s a lot of things to march on the street for, but too be honest as an outsider, national voting reform to bring in a truly democratic system (not first past the post…) needs to be at the top of the list.

So many things broken in your political system flows from it.

VolatileExhaustPipe ,

You know I’ve been here the whole time, you could leverage the same critique in 1998 and yet wouldn’t have gotten a proper voting reform. The point is for that you need a lot of power and that power you don’t get currently.

Your idea is: Lets create the system so that we get more power, to do that we need enough power to change the system. You see how that is a reverse order?

If that isn’t the way forward as strategic goal (since it was tried for decades and there was no success in changing it), what specific goals can you personally do to create power? Power that can benefit your community and possibly the world (just so that no nationalistic takes are posed as solutions).

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