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IHaveTwoCows ,

Fun fact: when someone says “benefits will be used on drugs!”, that person is not a Democrat; that person is a fascist who “others” people for his own selfish gain.

SoyViking ,
@SoyViking@hexbear.net avatar

Why can’t that kind of person be a democrat? It sounds like exactly the thing a right-wing liberal would say.

SpookyUnderwear ,

Liberals aren’t that different from conservatives. When someone on their team does something that doesn’t exactly align with all their beliefs, all of a sudden the bad guy isn’t on their team. Vote people, not parties.

rubpoll ,
@rubpoll@hexbear.net avatar

Joe Manchin is literally a member of the Democratic Party, won the Democratic Primary for his seat with the majority of Democratic Party Primary voters voting for him.

Your shit-ass party owns this monster.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

So just a little tip: people on the left don’t blindly worship the politicians and party they vote for. So comments like this don’t really hit like you think they do.

beteljuice ,

There is no one type of “people on left” or “people on the right”. I’ve met many people on the left that blindly worship the DNC and their entire agenda. Plenty of them. Just listen to NPR if you want to hear the latest programming that they will be parroting.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

I have never met a leftist or progressive that blindly worships the DNC. In fact, criticizing the party is almost a defining factor at this point. The Democrats are a centrist party, the people you have apparently met (uh huh sure) that are blindly worshiping the DNC are not “people on the left”. They are centrists.

beteljuice , (edited )

I’d continue talking to you but your snide “uh huh sure” directly implies you don’t believe me and are not discussing in good faith so you suck it if you don’t trust my words. Why would I waste my time on Lemmy making up shit like that? I’m not some 16yo edgelord on 4chan. I’m almost 50 in west Los Angeles and know many people that are hard left on any political topics, do social work, help homeless people and immigrants, support any social programs you could think of. But they aren’t highly political and don’t make their identity about politics, so they are easily fooled by DNC propaganda.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Lol what? What about my comments are bad faith?

But they aren’t highly political and don’t make their identity about politics

Right… that’s literally exactly what I originally said. That people on the left don’t worship the party they vote for.

And lol @ “DNC propaganda”. The Democratic party has the worst messaging ever. To suggest they have some kind of coordinated propaganda is laughable.

beteljuice , (edited )

I suggest you educate yourself. Look into David Brock. They have think tanks, political action committees, and lobbyists working full time to shape their messaging. They have direct representation at CNN, MSNBC, and NPR to amplify their talking points.

All major political parties are is propaganda machines. To claim they don’t have coordinated messaging is like saying that lions don’t hunt. It’s absurd in the extreme. “laughable”. Ooookkkk.

Look into Correct the Record, or Hamilton 68. Get your head out of your ass.

rjs001 ,
@rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

People on the left aren’t democrats

IHaveTwoCows ,

Yeah I dont think you understood the point.

rubpoll ,
@rubpoll@hexbear.net avatar

You said Manchin wasn’t a Democrat even though he is. What point did I miss?

jatone ,

Your shit-ass party owns this monster.

Your shit-ass party owns the other 50 monsters. so i’ll take the hit for this one.

buckykat ,

Everyone on the entire internet is part of one of the two major right wing parties in the USA

AlpineSteakHouse ,

every single fucking time with these libs

che-smile

jatone ,

i’m left wing as they come mate I just recognize that 50 > 1. if we want to dunk of the democratic party there are better people to dunk on that are more representative of the liberal failings as a group.

jatone , (edited )

every single fucking time with my fellow left wing morons. trying to dunk on the democrats by using manchin of all people. lol

https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/c595b807-36d4-4760-89b9-ef6b07b836fb.png

HornyOnMain ,

The person you’re talking to is a communist who hates the republican party even more than she hates the democrats

jatone ,

a pretty dumb one at that if they don’t recognize that manchin isnt the problem with the democratic party. you want to dunk on the liberals fine, I’m right there with you I’m about as left wing as they come but manchin isn’t the person you hold up and say ‘THIS IS WHY LIBERALS ARE BAD’ schumer or someone that actually represents the group holistically.

mycorrhiza ,

the argument is that Manchin is the designated “vote no guy,” blocking legislation the corporate donors oppose while allowing the rest of the democrats to say “gee I’d like to help my constituents but I can’t.” People point out the apparent lack of serious pushback or pressure on Manchin from the rest of the democrats.

brain_in_a_box ,

How embarrassing.

IHaveTwoCows ,

Nominal Democrat vs philosophical

I keep forgetting how shallow the genpub is with nuance and reading comprehension

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

Theres no such thing as a “philosophical” Democrat. They’re just a bourgeois capitalist party doing the bidding of their bourgeois capitalist masters.

IHaveTwoCows , (edited )

I agree. Still not the same as a conservative Republican.

glingorfel ,

this is a bit account, right? two cows, "genpub ", it’s all too much

IHaveTwoCows ,

What is a “bit account”?

And I love the Two Cows analogies

Grimble ,

Bad bit lol. No warm blooded human being has ever “loved the Two Cows analogies” Only a fed would come up with that

CannotSleep420 ,

You underestimate the stupidity of burgers.

beteljuice , (edited )

What exactly is the Democrat philosophy LOL. They have no consistency. They are just the opposite stance of the republicans on any particular issue (except for sucking off their corporate sponsors), so they will left or right wing on different subjects. For instance they used to be the party of free speech, which is absolutely a leftist stance, but since the right wing has latched onto it, now the Democrats are no longer in support.

IHaveTwoCows ,

I am not a Democrat apologist, but Manchin consistently acts like a conservative Republican so there fire not a Democrat and I dont give a fuck what party is next to his name.

And free soeech rights DO NOT extend to genocidal Nazis and white supremacist shitbags. Those fuckers broke the social contract and as a result they get no rights. This has nothing to do with Democrats. The right wing DO NOT believe in free speech; they only believe in amplified fascist speech. They have openly censored the speech if others.

If you disagree with any if this, that’s fine…but you would be a liar.

beteljuice ,

You sound like a reactionary and you haven’t been paying attention. The free speech issues have spread WELL beyond the small population of Nazis and white supremacists, but go on with your straw man… I’ve seen videos of right wing journalists of asian ethnicity being attacked due to being a “Nazi”. Everyone you don’t like is a crypto Nazi, which is why your attitude is the fascist one. Unless they claim to be a Nazi, doing salutes and wearing swastikas, then they aren’t a fucking nazi. That’s why Germany has very specific laws about this.

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

I’ve seen videos of right wing journalists of asian ethnicity being attacked due to being a “Nazi”.

Are you referring to Andy “works with Atomwaffen” Ngo?

spoilermilkshake

beteljuice , (edited )

Yeah see you act just like a gestapo yourself. You are implying that Ngo is a Nazi and deserves to be silenced and have violence committed against him. But he is not a Nazi. You create these vague boundaries and bundle anyone as a Nazi if it suits your purpose, even if they only associated with someone who associated with someone else that is a Nazi. Virtually everyone is 2 degrees of separation from a Nazi, so you are probably a Nazi by these absurd notions.

Once again, free speech is a leftist stance, and people aren’t Nazis just because you don’t like them. You disingeously use this “Nazis don’t deserve free speech” because you know you will use it against everyone, Nazi or not.

That being said, Andy Ngo is a loser and an asshole spreading the wrong ideas. Not a Nazi though.

ShimmeringKoi , (edited )
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Lol immediate defensive essay upon being called out for defending a literal nazi, “no ur the nazi actually”, this shit is so easy dude pit

beteljuice , (edited )

You are disingenuous trash. Gaslighting asshole. Just say any garbage that comes to mind whether it matches reality or not.

Typical bullshit strategy:

  1. Throw out some misinformation or half truth, like "Hitler ate Jewish babies on toast"
  2. Wait for someone to correct your bullshit, due to it being factually incorrect.
  3. Scream like a 11 year old on a middle school courtyard about “look at the Nazi defender” with emojis and all

You are advocating censorship and violence without due process to those you disagree with. You just need to categorize someone is part of some group who is exempt from due process for some reason, and then flip out with sneering and ad hominem if anyone disagrees with your bullshit. Sounds like fascism to me.

I’m certain I’ve done more for left wing causes than your trolling ass. You are the worst, trolls that identify as left wing and give the rest of us a bad name. You aren’t interested in facts or peace. You only care about us vs them and waging war. You probably think facts and nuanced discussion is a right wing thing.

Fuck off scum.

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

pit pit pit pit pit pit pit pit pit pit

IHaveTwoCows ,

Are you trying to defend Andy Ngo, known fraud and fasciat instigator?

beteljuice ,

I’m not defending him at all, but he is clearly not a Nazi.

Also thanks for proving my point.

Flinch ,
@Flinch@hexbear.net avatar

I would classify someone who provides lists of left wing protestors to neonazi terror organization Atomwaffen to be at the very least “fascist-adjacent” but that’s just me shrug-outta-hecks

beteljuice , (edited )

I don’t think you are correct that he provided a list directly to atomwaffen. I’m open to being wrong, but could find any evidence of this.

He met with a group that associated with Atomwaffen. So he’s fascist-adjacent-adjacent. He is a hack journalist catering to a shitty audience for money, kind of like Tim Pool or Jimmy Dore or Joe Rogan. If this is the kind of person who deserves violence and censorship then you are only proving my point further.

Curious if you are an anarchist or believe in the rule of law. If the latter, what would be the legal boundary between people who deserve censorship and violence without due process?

IHaveTwoCows , (edited )

The legal boundary would be the lying, slander, and vicious radical fascist antagonization (i.e. stochastic terrorism) that Ngo engages in. These people absolutely should be censored by any means necessary as their actions ARE NOT “protected speech”.

They ARE NOT.

The fucking shitheads you defend make violent threats to their political opponents all the time, even pushing people out of races (which is how MTG won). If you defend them then you too are an anti-American terrorist sympathizer.

They are TERRORISTS. They are not “voicing a different opinion”. They are TERRORISTS.

beteljuice ,

So much to unpack here. Not sure what country you are from, but in the US slander is already illegal, and orthogonal to fadcism.

And how is stochastic terrorism equivalent to radical fascist antagonism. And how would you prove stochastic terrorism? Just decide in your own and then lynch without trial? I have no idea how that would even be enforced in a legal framework. You gotta give me something here. I’m not just gonna go with twitter justice, sorry.

IHaveTwoCows ,

1- Did x happen as described? 2- Does his description serve to anger a violent audience? 3- Does this violent audience hurt others in response?

Ngo is three for three. Stochastic teroorist.

beteljuice ,

You are a stochastic terrorists. You cause people to have strokes trying to process your removed logic.

beteljuice , (edited )

You changed your comment after I replied.

You also moved the goalposts. The original premise was that Nazis don’t deserve free speech or protection from violence. Now we are switching to state department propaganda, with “the terrorists, oh my!”.

I’m not defending anyone, so fuck off with that bullshit now. I am simply trying to establish the facts. I only brought up one person, not a multitude. I’m not aware of any violent threats that he made.

Fuck you types that value fighting “your enemy” over facts and understanding. I won’t be bucketed as a sympathizer or right wing just because I challenge factually inaccurate information about a shithead. It’s such a lazy disingenuous fucked up asshole thing to do, to label someone as the outgroup for disagreeing with you. Fuck you, trash.

But you hella moved the goalposts. You all are really proving my point that you just have vague arbitrary moving lines you draw around people you don’t like so you can act like shitheads yourselves and feel good about it.

IHaveTwoCows ,

Guess what? Nazis dont deserve free speech or protection from violence. They broke the social contract, there fore they waive all rights.

And accidentally hitting “send” before I finished was unfortunate. Sorry you were hurt by that

beteljuice ,

Let’s go full circle again for you people with the memory of goldfish.

I’m actually fine with that, and as I said at the beginning of the thread, if they actually take the name, wear the symbols, and walk the walk.

But crypto-fascists such as yourself take advantage of this one exception that is hard to disagree with and decide to label every fucking person that disagrees with you as a Nazi. Not much different from what the Nazis did themselves. Create this fearful vague enemy that they had to break rules for to protect your safety.

Sorry, but Andy Ngo is not a Nazi, and fuck you for the gaslighting

IHaveTwoCows ,

What do you think he is, then? Also, I cant help but notice that we had a huge rise in radicalized fascists as center and left people kept insisted g that radicalized fascists should have all the free speech rights while demanding none of their own. Weird that nobody is asking Fox or OANN to allow free speech to socialists, liberals, leftists, or even centrist Democrats. Meanwhile, they passed a law allowing them to buy up all the airwaves and spew nonstop fascist ideology and Heritage Foundation radicalism.

It reminds me of the joke about Edison creating a light bulb and then wondering where all these fucking moths came from…

beteljuice , (edited )

He’s a hack journalist catering to a right-wingers to make money.

You are blind to the fact that both the “left” and “right” wing in the US are mostly artificial constructs by the corporate ruling class created to corral people like you into their pens.

The kind of shit you spew isn’t fundamentally different from the shit some right wing hillbilly spews about socialism and pedo cults. It’s all one big straw man to divide everyone into two manageable groups that have no overlap and see the other side as pure evil. You are a diddling kids under your Stalin poster according to billy bob deep in the appalachians. It’s just as accurate a depiction as everyone on the other side being a fascist nazi.

IHaveTwoCows ,

Oh no, I’m not blind to that fact but I do recognize when one is considerably more sinister and violent than the other, and that this sinister violence is highly similar to the same similar violence we have seen in past history.

beteljuice ,

How is one more sinister than the other when they are the same people? Lol don’t you see the flaw here?

Flinch ,
@Flinch@hexbear.net avatar

I am not going to spend effort trying to relitigate the reasons to hate a right wing grifter who collaborates with fascists. Personally, if I wanted to avoid violence, I wouldnt associate with groups that associate with Atomwaffen, but that’s just common sense shrug-outta-hecks

IHaveTwoCows ,

If you knew anything about his politics and methodology you would know that he is in fact most definitely a fascist at least, and very possibly a Nazi. Also, thanks for proving my point

beteljuice ,

“probably”. Ok I guess that’s good enough for violence and censorship. The point of this discussion wasn’t to determine whether he was a Nazi. You got lost. The point was that your mob justice is stupid and deadly. You can just label anyone you want then go ham open season on. them. You aren’t even sure yourself whether he’s a nazi for fuck sake.

IHaveTwoCows ,

I AM SURE that he is a stochastic TERRORIST.

beteljuice ,

You are sure. I guess caps lock proves it. Lol. Half of journalists are stochastic terrorists, whatever the fuck that means. Guess we should burn down fox news and CNN.

IHaveTwoCows ,

OMG CAPS LOCK HURT YOUR VAGINA

beteljuice ,

Go do your homework before your mom gets mad.

IHaveTwoCows ,

Oooh look the failure resorts to childish insults. I’ll take that as a win.

beteljuice , (edited )

The abject hypocrisy. I tried to keep this civil but you fired the first shot with the sneering and shit talking. Amazing the lack of self awareness people like you have. You have the memory of a goldfish considering the number of childish insults you already dropped.

IHaveTwoCows ,

Have you tried running around in circles and screaming at me through the screen? That should work.

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

pit pit pit pit pit pit pit pit pit

CannotSleep420 ,

Unless they claim to be a Nazi, doing salutes and wearing swastikas, then they aren’t a fucking nazi.

Considering the billions the dems have sent to Ukraine, even that isn’t enough to qualify as a nazi.

Sean ,
@Sean@liberal.city avatar

@beteljuice @IHaveTwoCows

Just putting this out there:

David Duke denies that he's an antisemite, racist, or bigot.

The individual doesn't need to identify and tell others that they are fascist to be objectively fascist. Or should we take the word of David Duke that his bigoted beliefs aren't bigoted because he doesn't recognize them to be bigoted beliefs?

Ubermeisters ,

This post was brigated by users from hexbear. It’s probably the lowest sum total IQ group I’ve ever seen online…

rjs001 ,
@rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Awww you just started using ableism and using the term brigading lmao

YeetPics , (edited )
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

As someone with no emotional connection to these politicians, “okay”.

Putin kills kids 🤷‍♂️

zephyreks ,

He is, quite literally, a Democrat. The fact that he is a Democrat sort of draws the line for where the “center” in the US is.

IHaveTwoCows ,

I wonder how many people are going to tell me that he is quite literally a Democrat before this thread has died? I’ll bet every one of them thinks they’re the first to do so, and thinks they won the debate when they do.

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