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Aesthesiaphilia ,

How do you / did your community feel about the MensLib community?

a-man-from-earth OP ,
@a-man-from-earth@kbin.social avatar

I appreciate that they try to highlight some male issues. But they subjugate them to feminist ideology, which I think is the wrong approach. They control the conversation very tightly and do not allow general criticism of feminism (especially the widespread misandry), nor specific topics such as legal paternal surrender. For that reason I consider the MensLib sub "controlled opposition". Even tho many members may have the heart in the right place, there is a high degree of self-censorship going on. Or you find yourself, as I did, quietly shadowbanned.

See also https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/wiki/missionstatement#wiki_how_do_we_differ_from_feminist_men.2019s_lib.3F

Aesthesiaphilia ,

Thank you for sharing your viewpoints (side note, this is my first time really reading reddit in a while and it's crazy how many accounts have been overwritten or [deleted]). I was active in the early redpill community, years ago, and watched in horror as it got taken over by right-wing protofascists. So I'm a little gun shy when it comes to men's spaces. I think, getting meta for a moment, there's something to be said for policing your own community a little over-zealously to keep out the misogynists...but then again, there's also something to be said for being honest in your beliefs, even if that means alienating an ally (like feminists).

I've subscribed and I'll keep a close eye on this community. You've got a difficult job; there's a lot of angry, misogynistic men and angry, misandrist tumblristas in the fediverse who would love to take over the discussion.

assclapcalamity ,

" there's a lot of angry, misogynistic men and angry, misandrist tumblristas in the fediverse who would love to take over the discussion."

drop that weirdness

Dienervent ,

Hopefully it will be like the subreddits he moderated. They turned out quite nicely. Unapologetically advocating for men from an egalitarian perspective while also being unapologetic about defending against the misandrist detractors, a large number of whom call themselves feminists and leverage feminist ideology.

RandoCalrandian ,
@RandoCalrandian@kbin.social avatar

Hey brother

I'm in a similar boat as you, and watched TRP go from "this is info men need to know, and soon" to religious conservative grifters, and similarly upset about it

And then watching menslib and others get setup so men could talk in "approved" ways

But all of that makes it even more important to me not to abandon other labels to grifters. It just makes it easier for them to dissipate any momentum we might accrue for social change.

Aesthesiaphilia ,

If the moderation is bad, it's a lost cause. The mod here removed a couple of comments I had calling out blatant misogyny, while leaving the misogyny. This space is doomed. I'm not wasting any more effort on it.

a-man-from-earth OP , (edited )
@a-man-from-earth@kbin.social avatar

I have removed comments for personal attacks, as per our rules.

Where is the misogyny? I mean, it is possible I may have missed it, as I am human and fallible. But make sure to differentiate feminism from women. Feminism is an ideology, not a gender. Attacks on women as a gender will not be tolerated.

So, if you want to call out bad behavior here, call out the specific statements ("That statement is misogynistic" or "Saying that is bigotry"). Do not use personal attacks ("You're a misogynist" or basically any form of "you are X") as they will be removed.

Aesthesiaphilia ,

Like I said, I'm not wasting more effort on it. I do still think you have good intentions and I still wish you luck.

a-man-from-earth OP ,
@a-man-from-earth@kbin.social avatar

That's your good right, of course. But I'll take that as "it was moderated correctly, and there is no actual misogyny that I can point out".

rikersbeard ,

They hosted an AMA with a guy who minimizes/denies that men can be victims of women aggressors. They tried to walk back some of the stuff he said, but didn’t outright apologize. They censor/minimize/deny a lot of other men’s issues. They are counterfeit, perhaps even a calculated disinformation campaign to co-opt the men’s movement.

Aesthesiaphilia ,

Feminism is obviously NOT organized enough to do anything like that, which tells me you're too paranoid to be worth listening to. Take a chill pill dude, not everything is a conspiracy.

rikersbeard ,

I’m not sure how you got that from my comment that I was talking about feminism as a whole. You asked what we think about r/MensLib and that’s what I answered.

However, I did address feminism as a whole in the post I just made in this magazine.

a-man-from-earth OP ,
@a-man-from-earth@kbin.social avatar

We don't do personal attacks here. Comment removed.

Aesthesiaphilia ,

And here I thought you were against the whole "never say anything negative about any member of our community, no matter how wrong they are" moderation stance that most feminist communities use.

If you don't nip the "it's a conspiracy" types in the bud, you become the nazi bar. Because there's a very thin line between "it's a conspiracy", "this is all their fault", and "we should do something about those people".

Calling another community "counterfeit" and a "calculated disinformation campaign" is dangerous, inflammatory language. If the mods or the community don't call it out, it encourages worse things to be said.

Not to mention it's clearly not even close to the realm of reality. It's not a rational statement at all. Pointing that out is not a personal attack.

Anyway, I'm not signing up to fight a losing battle against incel types taking over this space, so if this is how it's gonna be, I'm out.

a-man-from-earth OP ,
@a-man-from-earth@kbin.social avatar

We don't accept calling members of this community "too paranoid to be worth listening to". That is a personal attack. And we don't call them incels either. This is a place for civil discussion. Not for calling each other names. Our sidebar specifically states: "Attack the argument, not the person."

vlakas ,
@vlakas@kbin.social avatar

Just curious, is it possible to see Kbin comments/posts that were deleted by a user or moderator like Removeddit for Reddit (supposing they haven't been archived to the wayback machine)?

a-man-from-earth OP ,
@a-man-from-earth@kbin.social avatar

There is modlog (linked in the sidebar), but it doesn't appear to give access to the full comments, just the first couple of lines or so, unless it's a very short comment.

kilgore_trout ,
@kilgore_trout@feddit.it avatar

I am browsing a federated Lemmy instance and to me all the comments are still visible.

a-man-from-earth OP ,
@a-man-from-earth@kbin.social avatar

So, moderation doesn't federate? That's very unfortunate.

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