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merc ,

What about John Cornyn, Kevin Cramer, Deb Fischer, Cindy Hyde-Smith, James Lankford, Jim Risch, Roger Wicker, and all the other Republicans?

Yes, Manchin voted with them instead of with the Democrats, but ultimately it was almost entirely Republicans who voted to end the child tax credit. I can’t see any reason why he deserves more blame than them.

spaceghoti OP ,

We expect them to vote like assholes because they caucus with assholes. Manchin is allegedly supposed to be a Democrat and work with Democrats in Congress, but he seems to have more in common with Republicans. The only reason Democrats defend him at this point is because of their razor-thin majority in the Senate. If he switched parties or otherwise stopped caucusing with them, Republicans would take the majority and gain further control over our government. And that never ends well.

candybrie ,

You should expect the senators from West Virginia to vote republican. West Virginia is definitely red at this point. You have a better chance of getting a Democrat to replace Susan Collins or maybe even Ted Cruz than having any other “Democrat” from West Virginia.

phillaholic ,

Yea people don’t seem to understand this. He will be replaced by someone far-right.

spaceghoti OP ,

We get that. The complaint here is that while the far-right will fuck us over for their corporate masters, they’re generally honest about that. But Manchin’s sabotage comes from within the Democratic party. He helps the Democrats obtain technical majority in the Senate, then blocks their agenda so Republicans and trolls can say “see? Democrats are just as bad! They’re not interested in helping Americans either!”

And since the average voter isn’t following legislation and how Republicans have weaponized obstruction, they hear that and assume it must be true. All because Manchin and Sinema don’t have a problem with Republican obstruction.

phillaholic ,

You’re overthinking it. Manchin votes with Biden nearly 88% of the time. A full 20% more than the nearest Republican. The next lowest 90% is Bernie Sanders.

Ensign_Crab , (edited )

You’re overthinking it. Manchin votes with Biden nearly 88% of the time.

You’re ignoring that things usually only come to the floor for a vote when we think we have Manchin on board. This statistic is meaningless and you know it. Stop being dishonest on behalf of the guy who cast the deciding vote to double child poverty for you.

phillaholic ,

Call him out for ever bill he should support that he doesn’t. That’s not my point at all. My point is he’s not a Republican with a D next to his name. He’s measurably better than the best Republican. When he leaves the seat will go from 87% agreed to under 40% no matter what.

Ensign_Crab ,

He’s measurably better than the best Republican.

That doesn’t mean no one can gripe about him. Or that you have to defend him.

phillaholic ,

I’m not defending him. I’m defending the seat. People have these naive ideas that they are going to replace him with a progressive. They are clueless.

Ensign_Crab ,

I’m not defending him. I’m defending the seat.

From whom? Are they here?

People have these naive ideas that they are going to replace him with a progressive.

We should stop propping him up and expend the resources to elect a better candidate in another state. You know, instead of constantly defending him his seat.

phillaholic ,

I’ve run into the rhetoric or Reddit for years to primary him. I think a few members of congress have said the same.

Yes, flip seats in other states that are flipp able. That’s the point. Trump won West Virginia by 39 points in 2020. The second highest marching of victory, and somehow we have a Senator who votes for Democrats/Biden 20% more than any other Republican from that state. Under that context why would you criticize him? You’re being handed unearned wins basically.

Ensign_Crab ,

I’ve run into the rhetoric or Reddit for years to primary him.

Great. This isn’t reddit. If you want to argue like you’re on nazi digg, you know where to find nazi digg.

and somehow we have a Senator who votes for Democrats/Biden 20% more than any other Republican from that state.

Already covered this meaningless statistic.

Under that context why would you criticize him?

Because he just voted to double child poverty. You may be happy with him for it, but I’m not.

phillaholic ,

What in the hell are you talking about? Lemmy doesn’t exist in a vacuum. There’s ample criticism for Manchin here, and my point couldn’t be more simple.

The statistic isn’t meaningless at all. Is there someone that could win that seat that would have voted for this bill? No. Wtf is the point?

Ensign_Crab ,

Is there someone that could win that seat that would have voted for this bill?

I’ve already addressed this point. Since you want to argue against someone who wants to primary Manchin, find someone who holds that view to argue against.

Don’t keep pretending I hold a view you’ve practiced arguing against just because you don’t know how to counter anything else.

phillaholic ,

Remind me what your point is? You have the right to complain about him? Cool.

Ensign_Crab ,

Remind me what your point is?

This certainly explains this entire thread. You’ve ignored everything I’ve said and just spammed pro-manchin talking points.

Ensign_Crab ,

Why are you blaming Benedict Arnold? What about all the British?

phillaholic ,

Uh… the British were the core of the problem.

Ensign_Crab ,

So Benedict Arnold was blameless? Because that’s the logic here.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Is anyone here calling Joe Manchin blameless?

Ensign_Crab , (edited )

I mean, the article’s about how Manchin once again voted to fuck over poor people, and his acolytes are yet again like “Don’t blame Manchin for doing what we wanted him to! Blame Republicans!”

He betrayed the poor and his party. He’s right to catch blame for being the deciding vote here. No matter how much his supporters want to draw attention away from how he did what they wanted him to do.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Nobody is saying he doesn’t deserve any blame. Are you people here incapable of grasping nuance? Manchin doesn’t have any fucking “acolytes”, just people who are able to understand basic math.

If we didn’t have 50 Republican senators, his one vote would not matter. They’re constantly getting a pass so people who claim to be on the left can focus on the ONE DEMOCRAT that voted with those 50 Republicans, while ignoring the fact that these votes are passing with 51 votes, not 1.

Ensign_Crab ,

If we didn’t have 50 Republican senators, his one vote would not matter.

But we do. So it does. Manchin was the deciding vote.

As long as Republicans + centrist Democrats > 50, you’ll always have just enough votes to fuck over the poor.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

Fucking thank you. So many comments in this thread completely ignoring the entire Republican party and blaming Democrats. It’s so disingenuous.

Ubermeisters ,

That’s because hexbear users have decided to brigade this post, ergo, any chance of meaningful discussion is gone.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

That explains it I guess… man, could you just imagine how great the internet could be if it wasn’t constantly being ruined by conservative losers?

rjs001 ,
@rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Dude you have a conservative symbol as your pfp

rjs001 ,
@rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Brigade lmao. Is this your first time on the internet?

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