xkcd #2912: Cursive Letters ( imgs.xkcd.com )

xkcd.com/2912

Alt text:

𝓘 𝓽𝓱𝓲𝓷𝓴 𝓬𝓪𝓹𝓲𝓽𝓪𝓵 𝓛 𝓲𝓼 𝓹𝓻𝓸𝓫𝓪𝓫𝓵𝔂 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓼𝓽 𝓯𝓾𝓷 𝓽𝓸 𝔀𝓻𝓲𝓽𝓮, 𝓽𝓱𝓸𝓾𝓰𝓱 𝓵𝓸𝔀𝓮𝓻𝓬𝓪𝓼𝓮 𝓺 𝓲𝓼 𝓪𝓵𝓼𝓸 𝓪 𝓼𝓽𝓻𝓸𝓷𝓰 𝓬𝓸𝓷𝓽𝓮𝓷𝓭𝓮𝓻.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

“Rirruto?”

“Those are Z’s”

“Well they look like R’s to me.”

“That’s not fair! Rizzuto’s not even a word, he’s a baseball player! I hate school! I’m never coming back!”

Pulptastic ,

Would you like to try the word “buzz”?

aulin ,

Looking at this, while there is some overlap, it’s very apparent that US cursive is not the same as Swedish cursive. E.g. lower case x starting from the top? O_O

echodot ,

That’s interesting I’ve just realized that when I write x I start at the bottom left if I’m writing it normal but in the top left if doing cursive.

Huh.

aulin ,

We were taught to start all capital letters at the top and all lowercase letters (as they need to be connected) in the bottom left (or just left for some like v, that don’t really have a bottom left).

Particularly for x, they said we might as well learn to start x from bottom left when printing as well, because then it’ll be consistent with the cursive, but I find that when given the choice, I’m more naturally drawn to go top left to bottom right and then top right to bottom left, so that’s what I do when not writing cursive.

Edit: See my other comment for the cursive we were taught.

Dasus ,

Idk about “very” apparent, though.

I’m Finnish and we have much the same alphabet, and our cursive is derived from the same as the Swedish one, which is Neo-Gothic cursive, which does do the X from top down, as do we Finns.

…wikimedia.org/…/300px-D'Nealian_Cursive.svg.png

I did check the Swedish one and it is weird you do it differently.

aulin ,

But how do you you even write it when starting top left? Do you just write it as a backslash and then go back and add the second stroke once the word is finished? Or do you do some convoluted thing where you go in every direction while perfectly retracing your old strokes, to draw the whole thing in one go?

Dasus ,

Same as with dotting i’s or crossing t’s, really.

I often found that pictures speak louder than words, and it’s pictured in my earlier link.

aulin ,

Okay. And yeah, now that you mention it, I see that there are some tiny symbols there. 😅 It’s funny how every time I hear about cursive writing online it always sounds as if it’s one single thing that’s the same everywhere, but it isn’t. Oh, and also in our cursive, we don’t go back to cross t’s, because that’s part of the character from the beginning.

tigeruppercut ,
@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip avatar

I think you’re looking at the uppercase x. The lowercase x is just below that and the stroke starts at the bottom left.

aulin ,

No, I’m looking at the lowercase one. I don’t understand why it comes in at bottom left but goes to top left before starting the letter.

tigeruppercut ,
@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip avatar

When you have a letter that finishes at the bottom (like n in the word manx), the x starts at the bottom left and then rises to form the first downward stroke just like in the printed x. If you have a letter that finishes at the top like o, the x stroke doesn’t start at the bottom. See the sample below in the word fox

https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/b7116c8e-1b84-4ef6-b12e-24951ecade70.webp

aulin ,

Yes, I gathered. I was just wondering what the reason is for starting the x at the top, when it’s easier, imo, to do as we do and start at the bottom.

Tier1BuildABear ,
@Tier1BuildABear@lemmy.world avatar

Hard disagree on this one, the lowercase k needs to be way more to the right, or at the very least should have h i and l to the left of it. k looks so kool.

RIP_Cheems ,
@RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world avatar

It’s gets so much worse when you use russian cursive.

BigBananaDealer ,
@BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

how bad is russian doctor handwriting?

RIP_Cheems ,
@RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world avatar

Not russian doctor handwriting, Russian cursive https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/56fce49c-2a3d-4f05-845d-edf9982afd72.jpeg

MycelialMass ,

That cant be real ahah thats impossible to decipher

RIP_Cheems , (edited )
@RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world avatar

Oh it’s real, and just to rub salt in a wound, here’s a doctor using russian cursive on an entire form, or at the very least some kind of student, courtesy of Wikipedia https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/1ee2119e-372a-44c9-bc91-4244a37d79d4.jpeg

lud ,

Try Google lens. It can read it somehow.

garzaza77 ,

what the hell is cursive?!

GuitarAbuser ,

It is the way of typing in the pic

echodot ,

I always was taught to call it joined up but it’s the same thing. Basically where all of the letters just flow from one to the next so it looks like you’re writing in Arabic. The key is to make it as illegible as possible.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Serious question for people younger than me: How did you come up with a signature if you didn’t learn cursive?

lseif ,

just write your name really fast without lifting the pen

NikkiDimes ,

I just do a lil scribble and call it a day. Signatures are kind of stupid anyway.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

They are not especially useful now, but back before everything was computerized, signing your name on a check or a credit card receipt was a way you could help stop people from committing fraud if they stole your card or your checkbook.

Malfeasant ,

I’m almost 50 and I’ve always had a signature that looks like I just wrote my name like normal. I’ve had a few people try to tell me it’s not a “real” signature. WTFever, it’s mine, and if someone tries to fake it, you’ll still be able to tell the difference, isn’t that the whole point?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t really care how people sign their name if they’re fine with it, but you are honestly the only person around my age that wasn’t taught to sign their name in cursive.

Malfeasant ,

Well, I was taught to, I just have a penchant for not doing what I’m told…

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I can respect that.

daltotron ,

I just scrawl my name in comic sans

BluesF ,

I put an unreasonable amount of effort into a cool signature. But I so rarely have to sign anything these days! Disappointing.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I guess it’s because I have a lot of health issues, but I have to sign my name all the time. Occasionally when I pay with a card too.

HopFlop ,

In Germany, we did learn cursive (and its still being taught). Although barely anyone uses it anymore, I find it very useful for exams

HenryWong327 ,
@HenryWong327@lemmy.ml avatar

Wait your signature is supposed to just be your name in cursive? But then wouldn’t that defeat the point? I thought in the olden days it was supposed to be like a proof that you were the right person since you knew how your signature was written.

Anyways, for my signature I just kinda designed it. It was ages ago so I forgot my process, but it was deliberate and I remember making a whole bunch of sketches before finding one I liked. And since then I’ve incrementally improved it.

Seasoned_Greetings ,

Although cursive has a unified design, everyone writes cursive a little differently. The idea is that cursive is designed to write whole words in a single stroke. The concept of a secure signature in cursive is that the more work a single stroke is, the more uniquely a person writes it.

That is to say, even though you may have the same name as someone else, it’s extremely unlikely that a person can copy your nuances precisely enough to forge your signature on the fly. It isn’t a perfect system, but it’s easy enough to verify a signature that people could do it before technology was around to aid that process.

That concept is also why they say the actual design of your signature is less important than the consistency of doing it the same every time.

tigeruppercut ,
@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip avatar

There was some guy years and years ago who tried to see how ridiculous he could make his signature and have a store still accept it. As I recall he got to the point of drawing pictures on the receipt. Eventually he tried to buy something expensive like a TV for +1000 bucks before someone finally said something.

Of course now that search engines suck I’m having trouble finding the writeup he did.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

At one time illiterate people could just mark an X. The security of a signature isn’t really in it’s uniqueness or it’s relationship with your name. Security of a signature is down to the fact that you could to prison for forgery if you fake someone else’s signature.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Everyone I know my age and older signs their name in an approximation of cursive, but in a unique way.

lud ,

I just write my name like I usually write it?

It’s very rare for me to sign anything anyways.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Just in print?

lud ,

Yeah, but badly print because I have terrible handwriting.

A signature can be whatever the fuck you want.

It can be a drawing of a pony if you so desire.

Also is it still possible to sign when doing a card purchase where you live? I have never seen anyone ever do that and some stores explicitly disallow it.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I can’t remember when I last had to do it, but I definitely remember having to do the stupid ‘sign with your finger’ thing somewhere recently. I’m guessing companies like Square that serve smaller businesses must still do it.

Ilflish ,

Cursive f is actually way to high the whole point of cursive is to learn to write fast and cursive f is slower. I’m sure a large amount of people aren’t even aware it’s an f ( the middle right two)

Manmoth ,

The one furthest to the right is a “J”

HopFlop ,

Which one? The bottom one to the right is a ,z" (the thing looking like a 3).

Manmoth ,

Far right, second one from the bottom.

Jorgelino ,

It’s really no more time consuming than any other letter. It might look a bit bigger, bit it’s just two loops, which is a very quick and natural movement that you’ll be doing a lot if you write in cursive.

It’s more about following the flow of the lines than the size of the letters. Each letter should feed into the next one, so you’ll barely need to take your hand off the paper for the same word. Even if you choose to make an especially “high f”, that’d still take less than a second of you know what you’re doing.

(Also, as has already been pointed out, second one is a J)

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