Prouvaire

@[email protected]

Addicted to love. Flower cultivator, flute player, verse maker. Usually delicate, but at times masculine. Well read, even to erudition. Almost an orientalist.

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Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Canon Connections: Strange New Worlds 2x05 - Charades

claiming there are two Delta Vegas.

I have no problem with this solution. See for example, the other Paris.

Archer comments that Vulcan females specifically have a heightened sense of smell, but in “The Andorian Incident” it is a male Vulcan monk who comments that the smell aboard the NX-01 “must be intolerable.”

You can reconcile this: To Vulcan males we really smell. To Vulcan females, we really, really smell.

so perhaps that’s a cultural practice that fell out of usage between ENT and DIS/SNW/TOS

There's a tendency to treat every alien race as a monoculture, but maybe Spock and T'Pol just came from different parts of Vulcan.

As a human Spock chooses to eat bacon

I actually kind of assumed that it might have been facon. While I can see the Enterprise growing real plants on its five year mission (hence Pike's preference of real herbs), I can't see it breeding real pigs.

T’Pring and Spock decide to take time apart, but we know this isn’t permanent,

The real question is, when T'Pring finds out about Spock and Chapel getting it on, will his excuse be that they were on a break?

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in This is my happy place

I loved Jeff Russo's main title theme to Counterpart but I have to admit for me his work on Trek (DIS, PIC, SNW) has depended too much on an awkward (to my ears) bookend structure where he:

  • starts with a familiar Trek motif
  • introduces new theme or a variation/development on a Trek theme
  • ends with a familiar Trek musical motif

That said, given the premise of SNW, it's more justifiable for that show than the other two.

Prouvaire , to Fediverse in Is there a terminology for all the various different types of fediverse platforms?

The United Federation of Platforms

Prouvaire , to RedditMigration in Reddit's Contributor Program could earn you real money for your Reddit karma

So reddit will pay memelords but not mods?

Prouvaire , to Fediverse in Federating down-votes?

You mean... embrace and extend?

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Star Trek's First Gay Ship-Mates? The Star-Crossed Romance of Garak & Bashir

Bashir was noticeably nervous in "Past Prologue", their first meeting. It's interesting that fans ignore that, or chalk it up to him being nervous because Garak might be a spy, as opposed to accusing the actors and writers of extracting humour out of the "gay panic" trope. I guess it's because now people know theirs turned into a real friendship (or even more. ;-) ) Although I suspect if "Past Prologue" had aired today, there'd be a lot more outrage.

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Star Trek's First Gay Ship-Mates? The Star-Crossed Romance of Garak & Bashir

As mentioned, I think there's some evidence of Garak being queer, but not a lot of Bashir. That's where fan theorising comes in. But even in fanon I don't think people thought they were "in the closet", ie hiding their sexuality. It was more a case of "what we see on-screen is not the whole story, the fun stuff happens when the cameras are off them".

This is similar to how a lot of fans saw Seven as queer (even though I personally don't think there was a lot, if any, evidence of it on screen). But there was sufficient momentum for this fan theory that the writers made Seven canonically queer in Picard.

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in What other shows to watch for fans of Star Trek?

@Shadow For All Mankind is the Star Trek prequel we should have had.

As well as showrunner Ronald D Moore, the show has a raft of Trek alumni on its writing/producing staff.

@pinwurm

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Star Trek's First Gay Ship-Mates? The Star-Crossed Romance of Garak & Bashir

Robinson 110% played Garak as being sexually interested in Bashir in his first appearance. And in the (non-canon but very very good) novel A Stitch in Time that Robinson himself authored, he establishes Garak as having had relationships with men and women.

As the show developed the producers/writers/studio backed away from that idea (which, to be fair, I think is a spin that the actor himself put on the script, rather than being there on the page itself), hence giving Garak a girlfriend.

Personally I never read into any of their scenes together that Bashir was interested in Garak as anything more than a friend, but if the show had been more progressive in that respect I suppose it might have evolved into an explicitly romantic relationship. Early 1990s vs early 2020s I suppose.

DS9 was pretty progressive in that the idea of "being in the closet" wrt ones sexual orientation was never a consideration. In "Rejoined" for instance, nobody has an issue with Dax loving another woman - the taboo was about reassociation. And "Rules of Acquisition" people didn't judge Pel (who people thought was a man at the time) for falling in love with Quark - the taboo was about Ferengi females wearing clothes etc. (Not sure if that Matt Baume video mentions this - it's been a while since I saw it.)

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Manny Coto Dies: Emmy-Winning ’24’ EP Who Created AI Drama ‘Next’ & Worked On ‘Star Trek: Enterprise’, ‘American Horror Story’ & ‘Dexter’ Was 62

I know there's a perception that Leonard Maizlish was the power behind the throne, but even if he was meddling with the production and causing general mayhem, he was still there at Roddenberry's behest, especially in the first season.

You may have a point about Roddenberry spiking Gerrold's story for personal reasons. Star Trek was never the sole creation of Gene Roddenberry. Justman, Solow, Coon, Fontana and others arguably added as much to the franchise as Roddenberry as he himself did (though I don't dispute his was the most pivotal contribution). But one gets the sense he wasn't willing to be as collaborative during TNG as he had been during TOS.

It's a shame Gerrold left under such bad circumstances. There's a lof of his DNA in TNG. Some of the ideas - like the Captain not leaving the ship to go on landing parties (err, sorry, away missions) - came straight out of his book The World of Star Trek.

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Manny Coto Dies: Emmy-Winning ’24’ EP Who Created AI Drama ‘Next’ & Worked On ‘Star Trek: Enterprise’, ‘American Horror Story’ & ‘Dexter’ Was 62

Roddenberry was showrunner at the time, so surely it would have come down to him to make the call. I suppose it's possible that Paramount may have put pressure on him, but this is the same Roddenberry who did NOT nix the interracial kiss even though he was told it would cause NBC affiliates in the south to drop the show. I suspect he just may not have felt as strongly about LGBTQ rights as he did about other things. Which I'm kind of equanimous about. Not everyone has to feel equally passionately about every cause.

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Manny Coto Dies: Emmy-Winning ’24’ EP Who Created AI Drama ‘Next’ & Worked On ‘Star Trek: Enterprise’, ‘American Horror Story’ & ‘Dexter’ Was 62

https://media.tenor.com/r5OW1Ws_kPAAAAAC/mystery-shakespeare.gif

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Manny Coto Dies: Emmy-Winning ’24’ EP Who Created AI Drama ‘Next’ & Worked On ‘Star Trek: Enterprise’, ‘American Horror Story’ & ‘Dexter’ Was 62

Arrgh! I just wrote a detailed response to your post, acknowledging that you're completely right about how TOS's liberalism hit you in the face in a different way, explaining where I was coming from, and ending with how I actually doubt Roddenberry would have put a queer character in the show based on his nixing of "Blood and Fire", David Gerrold's early first season TNG script. But kbin ate it. sigh

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Manny Coto Dies: Emmy-Winning ’24’ EP Who Created AI Drama ‘Next’ & Worked On ‘Star Trek: Enterprise’, ‘American Horror Story’ & ‘Dexter’ Was 62

many of those progressive things are [now] either the norm, or seen as regressive

Totally agree.

Part of it might also be that they didn’t see Trek as anything more than “cool space show, with a whole bunch of scantily clad men and women”, and didn’t bother to look any deeper

Again, I think we're actually in agreement. If you look past the cool space show and can avert your eyes from William Ware Theiss' gravity-defying outfits you should be able to discern that Roddenberry's future is largely socialist, some would argue even communist. Centralised world government, no private enterprise (pun not intended), and by the time TNG aired, even no money. (Note there were references to money in TOS.) Not that I'm trying to imply conservative Trek fans aren't smart enough to figure this out. But - like the diversity and inclusion in the TOS cast - TOS's liberalism (social, not economic) isn't something that the show hit you in the face with. It's treated matter-of-factly, as backstory or backdrop. Whereas a show like DIS basically grabs you by the lapels and shouts "I'm progressive! I'm progressive!!" (Exaggerating of course, but you get the idea.)

not unlike Star Wars. It’s just guns, cool ships, and shooting, with the imperialistic allegory being ignored, or gone unnoticed

Not much of a Star Wars fan, but I assume this is David Brin's critique?

Prouvaire , to Star Trek in Manny Coto Dies: Emmy-Winning ’24’ EP Who Created AI Drama ‘Next’ & Worked On ‘Star Trek: Enterprise’, ‘American Horror Story’ & ‘Dexter’ Was 62

Hah! Normally I say that VOY is TNG-lite and ENT is VOY-lite, but decided to skip a generation this time. 😅

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