Prouvaire

Prouvaire OP , 5 months ago to Star Trek in Skydance Makes Offer For Paramount Global; Star Trek Franchise Could Be Under New Ownership, Again

Lots of negativity in this thread, but that seems to be par for the course for any fandom. Personally I'm cautiously optimistic.

Skydance produced/co-produced (often partnering with Paramount) on a number of franchise movies, including Star Trek, Mission Impossible, Jack Reacher, Top Gun, GI Joe, Terminator, The Old Guard and Spy Kids. Some of their productions have been well-received (eg Mission Impossible, Top Gun Maverick) and others less so (Terminator Genysis and Dark Fate, although personally I quite liked Dark Fate). They've also produced smaller, critically acclaimed movies like True Grit, Annihilation and Air; as well as their share of dreck of course, like Geostorm.

What I think is clear though is that Skydance is primarily interested in big franchises, so if they were to acquire Paramount, I think more Star Trek movies would very likely be in the works which, as a fan, I'd be happy about. I know there's an argument that Trek is best suited to TV, but some of the best Star Trek has been big screen Star Trek. And studios are more willing these days to have franchises run across both TV and film concurrently (MCU, DC, Star Wars), granted with mixed success.

Re Larry Ellison's involvement - my guess is that he'd be a silent partner, putting some of his personal fortune - rather than Oracle's funds - to help out his son. I believe he did the same thing for his daughter, Megan Ellison, whose company Annapurna Pictures he helped fun and which went on to produce films like Her, Zero Dark Thirty, Phantom Thread and Books Smart (and the stage musical A Strange Loop). I doubt Larry Ellison will take a hands-on role in the management of Skydance/Paramount.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in Thoughts on fixing production mistakes in remasters?

That Bob Justman memo reminded me how much fun they had making TOS (as well as working long and hard of course). Perhaps my favourite is the memo chain Justman started about Vulcan proper names.

Re fixing mistakes: I guess I don't have a problem with it as long as the mistakes are trivial, are clearly errors, and the original version remains available. What constitutes a "trivial error" of course can be up for debate. Correcting a background audio cue - sure, why not? Changing early TOS references of "Vulcanians" to "Vulcans" - definitely not.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in Who's your favourite character and why?

Spock.

The why should be obvious, but this video goes some way to explaining it.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in Please bear with me while I geek out about Edith Keeler in "The City on the Edge of Forever" for a moment.

I'm pretty sure I encountered "City on the Edge of Forever" through James Blish's short story adaptation before I saw the actual episode cough cough years ago, because Edith's speech as televised:

One day soon... man is going to be able to harness incredible energies, maybe even the atom. Energies that could ultimately hurl us to other worlds in... in some sort of spaceship.

has always struck me as being incredibly blunt in comparison to what appeared in the short story version. Blish didn't work off the final shooting scripts but earlier revisions, so I assume Edith's "astronauts on some sort of... star trek"-like predictions must have been inserted by Roddenberry or maybe Fontana.

While some of the poetry and elegance may have been taken out of Ellison's script (along with other, more justifiable, changes), there's no denying that "City" is an absolute classic, and one of the few instances of Trek doing romance well.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in After decades lost, Star Trek’s original Enterprise model may have been found

Great news! The Matt Jefferies Enterprise is my second-favourite incarnation of the Enterprise (after the TMP refit), although I prefer the post-pilot version with the balls at the back of the nacelles rather than the grilles.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in After decades lost, Star Trek’s original Enterprise model may have been found

But I don't have a problem with it. I'm actually very glad the model has been found cause it's an absolutely iconic item, and hope it's on its way to Rod Roddenberry.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in After decades lost, Star Trek’s original Enterprise model may have been found

No it wasn’t, it was genes and it sat on his desk before being loaned out to the studio

It was loaned out in the run-up to Star Trek The Motion Picture. It was not loaned to the studio at the time of production of the original series. I'm talking about the ownership of the model back in 1964, not 1978/79.

No the model was made before any production, again documented and linked for source.

Filming of the first scene of "The Cage" took place on 24 or 27 November 1964 (accounts vary).

The 3-foot model was commissioned from Richard Datin on 4 November 1964. He received the blueprints on 7 or 8 November 1964. An in-progress version was presented to Roddenberry on 15 November 1964, with Roddenberry apparently requesting a number of changes, ie "more detail". The model was delivered to Roddenberry on 14 December 1964 while "The Cage" was being filmed in Culver City.

Therefore the model was made during production, not before.

Source for most of these dates: http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/shaw/1701-33-inch.html

And even if the model was made before production of "The Cage" started, it doesn't negate my point, which is that the model would almost certainly have been paid for, and therefore owned, by Desilu or Norway as it was clearly a production/pre-production expense. It was used consistently throughout the run of the show, and was even modified to more closely resemble the 11-foot model. I find it inconceivable that Roddenberry would have paid for it out of his own, personal, pocket.

Again it’s documented, you’re simply making things up.

I'm not making things up, I'm speculating based on what I know of business and Roddenberry himself. Roddenberry was known to appropriate items that were owned by the studio for his personal benefit, eg when he took film clippings after the show was cancelled and sold them through his private business Lincoln Enterprises.

Roddenberry merely stating "I've owned it since the Desilu days" in a letter doesn't necessarily make it so. Note I'm not claiming he didn't own it, I'm raising it as an academic possibility. And, as I said, I have no problems at all with the model going back to the Roddenberry family once it's been recovered.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in After decades lost, Star Trek’s original Enterprise model may have been found

@CCMan1701A has a point. The model was built for production purposes, so it would have almost certainly been paid for - and therefore owned - by either by Desilu Studios or Norway Corporation (aka Norway Productions) depending on how the accounting was set up back in 1964. So unless Desilu/Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry at some point, ie formally passed title to him, technically it would still be the property of the original corporate owner.

What I think quite possible though is that after TOS was cancelled Roddenberry took possession of a bunch of production assets nobody ever thought would have any value. Star Trek, after all, was a failed show. IIRC it was known that he used to do stuff like that, eg selling off merchandise to fans that - technically - he didn't own. It's just that nobody really cared too much back then.

Now as it so happens, Norway was actually Roddenberry's production company, but technically that doesn't matter, as there's a legal distinction between a corporation you own on the one hand, and you as an individual on the other. That's the whole purpose of setting up businesses as separate legal entities. So even if the model was originally purchased by and owned by Norway (as opposed to Desilu, which was sold to Paramount during the show's run) then Norway (Roddenberry's company) would still have needed to pass ownership to Gene Roddenberry the individual (via a gift or sale) in order for Majel Roddenberry's statement that "it was Gene's" to be strictly true. Of course, that would have been a cinch to do: Roddenberry, as owner/executive of Norway, simply sells or gives the model to Roddenberry the individual.

It's possible that this happened, ie that Desilu or Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry, but it's also possible (especially if the model was owned by Desilu/Paramount) that he merely ended up with it, and that nobody questioned his legal right to it in the years since.

Personally, regardless of whether technically (ie from a legal or accounting perspective) Roddenberry did or did not own the model, I fully understand that Rod Roddenberry would be interested in recovering this seminal piece of Star Trek memorabilia, and I wouldn't have any issues if it stayed in the Roddenberry family or was gifted to an institution like the Smithsonian.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in What's the best dialogue in your opinion?

My favourite deadpan funny line delivery of Nimoy's is this exchange from The Wrath of Khan:

Kirk: I would not presume to debate you.
Spock: That is wise.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in What's the best dialogue in your opinion?

"I love Italian. And so do you." "Yes." My favourite bit in TVH.

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in Just some fun size comparisons

name any show other than Lower Decks or Strange New Worlds that had a good first couple seasons

TOS. 😎

Prouvaire , 7 months ago to Star Trek in Warp Five: Lower Decks' Mike McMahan Details Season 4's Big Beats So Far

I just wanted to play to into Rom’s savviness and Leeta’s savviness. What did he pick up from his brother and what did he leave behind?

Hmm

Prouvaire , 8 months ago to Star Trek in Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Lower Decks | 4x09 "The Inner Fight"

I think the official explanation is that they thought about it and judged Locarno as irredeemable - "a bad guy in the guise of a good guy" whereas Paris was supposed to be "a good guy in the guise of a bad guy". But I tend to agree that money was the determining factor, as it so often is.

Prouvaire , 8 months ago to Star Trek in Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Lower Decks | 4x09 "The Inner Fight"

Great to have Robbie McDunc back as Locarno as well. If nothing else this may finally kill the urban myth that they didn’t use Locarno in Voyager due to royalties once and for all.

I don't understand the reasoning here. Why would Locarno's return for one or two episodes kill the theory that Paramount didn't want to pay Moore and Shankar ongoing royalties for seven years?

Prouvaire , 8 months ago to Star Trek in Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Lower Decks | 4x09 "The Inner Fight"

Her whole pivot into even-more-than-normal overtly reckless behavior three episodes after the supposed precipitating event felt very abrupt, and the scene where she talks it over and appears to resolve her issues with Ma’ah felt rushed, almost forced.

Agreed. It's tricky injecting serious notes into an all-out sitcom and I'm not sure it worked as well this episode as it might have.

The Sito Jaxa makes reasonable sense as a backstory component, but I found it distracting and it does add to the “small universe” syndrome that expanding IPs risk falling into

Again, agreed. Lower Decks has as much (more even) blatant fan service as Picard season 3, although because it is a comedy I find it more forgivable and less grating than I did in the other show. That said, "Lower Decks" is my favourite TNG episode, so appreciated the Sito Jaxa callback for that reason (and it was a nice way of connecting this series and the episode it was named after). As long as they're not foreshadowing her return. That would be very very bad. They thought about bringing her back on DS9 but wisely refrained. Keep your hands off Sito Jaxa's corpse McMahan!!