In the future, if you plan to add sync, consider reimplementing Joplin sync algorithm
That would give you tens of thousands of passionate users, dedicated FOSS server as well as webdav/s3/dropbox/onedrive client sync ability, webclipper and a lot of support to navigate future issues/roadmap
If you ever decide to do that, there's even a plan to repackage the algorithm as a standalone library
I'm not to much worried about the syntax, KleverNotes follows Common Mark, so as long as the other app follows it too (which it should) this part is okay
I'm more worried about directory structure and things like that, but I'll have to read more about both API before I can really say anything concrete on this subject
By the way, if you have something in Joplin that you really can't live without, let me know, I'm always looking for pottential features :)
Thank you - I'll try it out again. I had exactly the same feeling about KDE5 - too fractured, too inconsistent, too many weird options. GNOME just was more polished in that regard. But your post makes me hopeful that KDE 6 fixes these things :)
Overall I'm just happy that Linux has multiple competing DEs which often inspire each other and give great new design ideas. As long as we have GNOME, KDE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Pantheon etc., I will be happy. I have learned lots of things in regards to my design preferences (and about quality of design in general), and I'm glad knowing that I can switch DEs anytime. RIP for Windows/Mac users who don't have thus luxury.
Want more exposure? Easy: Treat Steam Deck's game mode as first class citizen for Kirigami apps and release those on Steam, most notably the Angelfish web browser. Too bad whenever I inquired whether that's even under consideration, the replies I've got were along the lines of "just launch desktop mode".
The problem with gaming mode is how quickly it falls appart the moment you try to use it for something other than gaming. Something as simple as having more than one window is impossible under Gamescope. That's pretty problematic when a toolkit decides to implement something as a stealth window, like GTK context menus. Qt doesn't do this as much as GTK does so using Qt applications isn't as problematic, but it's still a pain. For instance, you're extracting a file with Dolphin and a pop up window shows up to report progress, making you completely unable to access the main Dolphin window until the operation has been completed.
The best part is that SteamOS displays a little "Switch Windows" section under the "Exit game" button when you have multiple windows opened, which literally just doesn't work and as far as I can tell never has. The only thing that menu does is show you the names of the opened windows and let you close them by pressing X. Switching windows, the thing the section is literally named after, doesn't work and never has since I got a Steam Deck last year. You select a window, it gets highlighted in the menu and that's it. Nothing else happens. It doesn't switch focus or switch the window displayed by Gamescope, it does nothing.
Another thing that's often problematic is that you can't maximize windows. Say your app decides to open itself windowed, Gamescope is just going to blow that 480x360 window up to full screen and makes zero attempt to actually resize the window to fit the screen, so you're stuck with a very blurry and zoomed-in window. The maximize button in apps with CSD does nothing, but other built-in means of resizing windows or achieving full screen do often work. But these built-in means often don't exist, because applications expect to be running on a window manager that's actually capable of managing windows.
And then there's just all kinds of bugs. Say you open a game with a certain aspect ratio/resolution while also having apps with a different aspect ration/resolution open, you'll often find that when going back to your app you can't move your mouse outside the boundaries of the window for the game you just opened. Another thing I've seen with many games is that the view often gets shrunk to a tiny square in the center of the screen. There's a lot more, but I'm sick of ranting about gaming mode.
My personal take is that SteamOS's Big Picture/Gaming Mode shell sucks balls. It's impossible to make most desktop apps work well in Gaming mode without bending over backwards to work around the myriad of issues it has (for the ones that can even be worked around) and since it's closed source there's nothing you can do about it. Thus, the best solution would be to develop a new Gamepad-centric open source shell to replace it. I also think rather than repurposing Plasma Mobile applications like Angelfish it would be better to design new ones that are truly designed for gamepads. Perhaps Plasma Big Picture could be used as a starting point. But it would be a really big undertaking and there probably aren't enough devs interested right now.
The problem with gaming mode is how quickly it falls appart the moment you try to use it for something other than gaming. Something as simple as having more than one window is impossible under Gamescope. That’s pretty problematic when a toolkit decides to implement something as a stealth window, like GTK context menus.
So much text and yet you didn't read that I was explicitly writing about Kirigami apps.
I also think rather than repurposing Plasma Mobile applications like Angelfish it would be better to design new ones that are truly designed for gamepads. Perhaps Plasma Big Picture could be used as a starting point.
Steam Deck has a touch screen. At no point was I taking about docked use.
IIRC there's a workaround that involves symlinks and/or copying some json files into the Firefox folder under .var, but I don't quite remember how it works.
I don't know what you mean by that. It's a locale, it has nothing to do with KDE or Plasma. It doesn't even need a desktop environment. Plasma Settings will just pick up the ones you have installed.
I don’t know what you mean by that. It’s a locale, it has nothing to do with KDE or Plasma. It doesn’t even need a desktop environment. Plasma Settings will just pick up the ones you have installed.
I used to think so too.
However, Plasma apparently has its own list of locales not identical to the system one. (See the first post)
I really like gnome the software, but I've started considering moving away from it after a decade simply because of how toxic and difficult gnome the project can be.
I also really like GNOME the software but I moved away a few months ago because of this.
As is, the current GNOME is unusable to me without extensions because they refuse to implement support for appindicators. You literally cannot use applications that minimize to tray on vanilla GNOME right now.
They have been talking about adding their own protocol for years but that is of no use when things are broken right now.
Important features and bug fixes are always stuck in merge request limbo for years. VRR for Wayland got merged recently after 4 years and it's still experimental. DRM leasing is still missing on Wayland, KDE added it 3 years ago.
The final straw was when KDE announced HDR support last year I switched over because I knew GNOME would probably lag behind by months or even years.
As is, the current GNOME is unusable to me without extensions because they refuse to implement support for appindicators. You literally cannot use applications that minimize to tray on vanilla GNOME right now.
They have been talking about adding their own protocol for years but that is of no use when things are broken right now.
So what, just use the extension. Currently no cross-desktop API for systrays that doesn't suck in one or another way exists, so GNOME doesn't have support for them. If you care that much about not using an extension, implement it for yourself.
Yeah, just because the api is not perfect, to just not support it, is no solution.
With that argument you can just skip most interop api, as they all have pain points.
What PR? And what about the missing API that satisfies every/most desktops' needs?
And any GNOME user who needs that can use the extension. I don't really get the point, apart from philosophy, which doesn't really make sense here since nothing perfect exists yet, which GNOME seemingly doesn't like implementing. Maybe some work towards that would be good, but I'm just someone using software for free, without paying anything.
You can check this post post about why gnome has done away with appindicators. Basically everyone has their own and it's a mess, they're very much not bringing them back, appindicators are being replaced altogether by the notification system.
@imecth@cullmann@ohyran@UnityDevice@domi It wasn't true when Allan wrote that blog post, and it's still not true now. If you drop XEmbed and only support SNI (as Plasma did years ago), you have one way to handle it. As it is, Fedora Workstation has an open ticket about adding the appindicator extension because applications are broken without it and Ubuntu maintains and ships it to support a useful user experience.
Currently the ticket is deferred until we resolve updating the SNI spec.
I'm aware of their reason for dropping support but it's not sensible to drop a functioning system and replace it with nothing and then talk about how to do it better for years. That post is from 2017, it's 2024 now and there is still no replacement in sight.
You've missed the part where they have no intention of replacing it. It's bloat. And I agree with them.
Where relevant they've added stuff as a core part of the panel, like recently an indicator for VPN connections. If you want to use an application you can alt-tab to it, like we've done for decades. Everything else is relegated to media controls and notifications. Appindicators are legacy at this point, and they systematically get cut from modern designs like mobiles.
Notifications, you can have the app fire a notification when it's synced or disconnects for example. Gnome is working on better notifications right now. Tablets, chromebooks, cell phones... have been doing fine without appindicators; people just have a hard time changing their habits.
Notifications are more effective at displaying a change of status than a tiny icon turning red.
What's important to someone is gonna vary on a case by case basis, sometimes getting an email is an urgent notification, you can easily turn off the ones you don't care for or go into DND mode.
At least for us, notifications aren't something you can really glance at similarly to app indicators. They're usually text heavy, only really work for longer tasks for readability (which syncing usually isn't), and are always obscured behind another popup for persistent notifications. Persistent notifications also take up more space within the notifications popup, rather than a small icon that you can easily glance at to know what's happening.
As for programs not staying in the task manager, they usually take up less space if open as an app indicator, being able to be passively open but not take up as much space.
The problem is when you allow one developer its own applet, every application wants one, and suddenly you have 15 applets. Applications need to figure out alternative design patterns to achieve the same result or sidestep the problem.
There's this saying, out of sight, out of mind, do you really need to have a constant eye on every application? When there's an actual change you get a notification.
@imecth
Alternative design patterns like PUTTING A SINGLE ICON ON THE TASK BAR SO USERS CAN SEE AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT WHAT A SERVICE OF THEIR CHOICE IS DOING. Like Windows, MacOS, iPadOS, iPhoneOS, ReactOS, Kde Plasma, XFCE, and morr allow?
Do you honestly think an icon bar like this is a good thing? Look at the colors, the amount of them, how they fold because there's too many... And it's the same shit on windows too. It looks ugly, they're hard to click on, most of them don't serve any purpose... I agree appindicators do serve a purpose, but as it is, i prefer not having them at all.
To more directly answer, the only icons I would hide there would be the chrome and Pale Moon ones. However, not having seen those two before, I don't know what they are indicating. I would mouse over them or click on them to see what they are.
Now I am a KDE fanboy to the bone, a KDE eV member and past contributor to several projects ... so I am kinda biased :D so "yes, yes you should" THAT SAID I know a lot of awesome folks in the GNOME project. People who really really are brilliant and fantastic folks the issue is that there is a culture of "be loudest and most self-assured and you're the best" in certain aspects of the project and combined with the GNOME projects stated focus on just GNOME that creates an air of snobbery among some (sadly some of the people most outwardly visible) and a tendency to demand help from others but refusing to give it when asked.
Its a cycle of self-proclaimed victimhood too where they consider any disagreement as either "unprofessional" or just random hostility without reason when it comes from the outside.
Which sucks. Sucks amazingly. Specifically because there are so many great folks in the project doing awesome things for others and the GNOME project who seem doomed to obscurity because of their ability to work with others and not be blustering screaming malcontents due to the projects culture (in certain areas).
EDIT: just to hammer the point home. Amazing project, amazing people but for some reason a handful of people who from the outside look like random asshats have been actively promoted to the top. Perhaps within the project they don't appear as asshats? I don't know. I just know that I have a very very short list of people that I avoid and would leave a project if they where in it because I have seen what they do when in power. Three of that less-than-five list are from the GNOME projects leadership.
And they added back Tango as a fallback and the bug is fixed because now its FDO-compatible... I am pretending the snark at the end by Jakob isn't there and its all good
I tried the beta out for a week, and overall it was fine. One super annoying thing I can into I couldnt figure out though was paste was borked. I could copy text, see it in the clipboard cache, but when trying to paste, the window I would try to paste into (several apps) would freeze for 30 seconds or so, and then not paste. Very odd.
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