Despite rhetoric, anti-trans sentiment higher amongst cis men in Britain ( www.thepinknews.com )

Risk , 10 months ago

What a weird article. Makes sweeping conclusions like “women are fine with trans” issues, casually ignoring the ~50% that responded unsure or negatively.

The numbers are generally evenly split positive-to-negative and whilst, yes men are between 5-10% or so more likely to respond negatively, phrasing it in a way where you treat men and women as monoliths isn’t very helpful to addressing the goal of trans positivity.

spaduf OP Mod , 10 months ago (edited 10 months ago)

The numbers are generally evenly split positive-to-negative

For men they are (43% vs 44%). For women a majority (54% vs 31%) believed transphobia was a problem in British society.

treat men and women as monoliths

This is an article discussing demographic based polling data.

I’ll be honest I’m not the biggest fan of most headlines period. In this case, what they’re trying to convey here is that it is not women (as terf rhetoric would imply) who are driving transphobia in the country.

Phoenixbouncing , 10 months ago

It depends “Is transphobia a problem” is not the same thing as “Are trans people a problem”.

For one thing trans-women seem to get far more hate than trans-men, which could sway things. Also being less exposed to progressive attitudes could also blind people to what trans people face (which would affect men more).

All this to say that the question asked in the study and what the article makes of it are very different things.

Also the spreads put up as evidence are no where near large enough (2/3 points each way) to push the idea that “cis” men are driving the issue (the study didn’t mention gender identity, the article just assumed).

All in all this article feels more like rage bait than anything that would push the discussion on trans rights Vs women’s rights forward in any reasonable way.

spaduf OP Mod , 10 months ago (edited 10 months ago)

It depends “Is transphobia a problem” is not the same thing as “Are trans people a problem”.

I don’t think I understand what point you’re making here.

Also the spreads put up as evidence are no where near large enough (2/3 points each way) to push the idea that “cis” men are driving the issue (the study didn’t mention gender identity, the article just assumed).

There is not a single polling question that shows a difference of 2 or 3 points between men and women. The smallest gap is 5 points. With most being over 10. Further we can be relatively certain how trans men are likely to answer these questions. Why is cis in quotes?

All in all this article feels more like rage bait than anything that would push the discussion on trans rights Vs women’s rights forward in any reasonable way.

The article is a remarkably straightforward reading of the polling data. Why are you framing the discussion as trans rights Vs women’s rights? I know you are not a native English speaker so I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt but this phrasing is concerning.

Phoenixbouncing , 10 months ago

I think the click baity title jinxed any discussion here.

I’m all for trans people having the right to live as their chosen gender and be left in peace to use the toilets of their choice, but the article clearly slanted it to be a case of “let’s ignore JK Rowling and co and bring this back to being a man problem”. This is from the first paragraph that gives the lens you’re supposed to read the data through.

Now, just to clear up on my origins, I’m a British expat so English is my native language but I’m also painfully aware of the scourge that is the Tory party and the havoc they’re wreaking, and I broadly agree with /u/crypticcoffee regarding the fact that there isn’t really a gender devide when it comes down to who is pushing the war on transgender people, it’s transphobes Vs the rest of us.

The revised title is much cleaner and frankly I agree with what it says, men are generally less accepting of trans people than women.

spaduf OP Mod , 10 months ago

The article does no such excusing for prominent transphobes, male or female.

Risk , 10 months ago

In this case, what they’re trying to convey here is that it is not women (as terf rhetoric would imply) who are driving transphobia in the country.

One cannot draw that conclusion from this data. There are still >30% of negative female respondents.

I’m not saying terf rhetoric is correct, just that this data is unrelated.

spaduf OP Mod , 10 months ago

One cannot draw that conclusion from this data. There are still >30% of negative female respondents.

A 23 point gap with a majority is a completely different ball game than a 1 point gap. The data is absolutely strong enough to draw those conclusions.