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HowManyNimons ,

The middle class are working class who can’t afford to go to school longer, but did so anyway because they were expected to.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

That’s not really a class, it’s not a social relation to the Means of Production, that’s more of a group of people. A class is more specific, like a Worker, or an owner.

HowManyNimons ,

Indeed, point being there’s no real class distinction.

owen ,

The class distinction is owner vs worker. Do you have to work? You are working class. Do you collect money from people because you and your family “own” an essential pillar of society? You are owner class.

Prunebutt ,

Yeh, but there’s no class distinction between blue and white collar. That’s the joke.jpeg

SolarMech ,

In a lot of countries (Canada, Germany, etc.) they can afford to go to school longer because society realizes that it is in it’s best interest to make it affordable (free in some cases).

If you believe the US’s way is the only way to have a democracy and freedom, you need to learn about other democraties.

Rodeo ,

Not Canada. Tuition in Canada is as expensive as comparable schools in the US. We just don’t really have the ultra expensive tier like Harvard.

owen ,

True for university but colleges have pretty good incentives and reasonable costs, also we have high quality colleges imo

Ignisnex ,
@Ignisnex@lemmy.world avatar

Tuition in Canada is subsidised by the provincial government for citizens. The cost is also regulated by the provincial government. Those two amounts differ from province to province. For instance, in Alberta when UCP clawed it’s way back into power, they decided to cut funding to post secondary, and imposed tuition caps that prevented cost recovery. Our university had to lay off hundreds of people, and we’re still not operating within 80% full staff.

A student at full course load can expect to pay about $10K per year, depending on the university, if they are a citizen. Otherwise, foreign students on a visa will be in the $25k-35k bracket. UofA specifically quotes about $33k. I can’t speak on what tuition in the states looks like, but I’ve heard numbers much closer to the latter example with more frequency.

SolarMech ,

It was pretty cheap when I was paying it.

Kase ,

Tbf to Harvard and the other ivy leagues, as of when I applied a couple years ago (did not get in lmao), my tuition would’ve been $0. I don’t know how much they actually charge, but they do have an above average scholarship program, at least for those coming from the “lower” class.

I’m not saying it’s a good school or anything, I really have no idea. That just kinda stuck with me, it seemed really cool.

Prunebutt ,

With the way the political landscape is currently looks: I don’t think that european democracies shouldn’t get too high on their horses with their fascist disasters? Netherlands, anyone? Italy?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

The Professional Managerial Class, or Labour Aristocracy, is a broadly recognized sub-class that functions as agents of the bourgeois within the working class. In the same way that an Overseer and a Serf are both “working class” but one holds a clearly demarcated position relative to the other, PMCs and service/factory workers are well defined sub-components structured against one another.

Prunebutt ,

Were u got that theory from? Asking for a comrade.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Its definitely neo-marxist.

You’ll get it from folks like Richard Wolff (on the more academic end) and Amber Lee-Frost / November Caldwell Kelly (on the podcasty end). Piketty’s “Capitalism in the 21st Century” also takes a deep dive into Managerial Capitalism and the modern method of corporate administration.

More orthodox Marxists tend to dismiss it as a distraction, but I tend to think there’s real value in understanding the class elements of the administrative state as distinct from both proletariat labor and bourgeoisie owners.

Prunebutt ,

Well, AFAIK, the orthodox marxists tend to be Marxist-Leninists, who kind of want to overlook all that administrative class business, Bakunin warned us all about way before Lenin. Or is that a different bunch alltogether again?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Bakunin never had to be in charge of anything as vast as a Soviet Union. Marxist-Leninists can be the victims of their own success in that regard. But I think Bakunin was more speaking of bureaucrats broadly, while your more modern Marxists are concerned specifically with how the organs of capitalist states function in the era of industrial finance.

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