"7:05-7:13 We here at The MRM have been operating under the (uninterrogated)belief that Intersectional Feminism’s proponents are nigh-omnipotent sorcereresses(occasionally sorcerers), who turn docile plebs into blood thirsty misandrists, just by uttering magic lies from behind their microphones. Turns out, the explanation for their success at winning public influence may be simultaneously more prosaic AND more profound:
Intersectionalists provide their prospective converts with not simply one, but SEVERAL roles to play, within the framework of what appears to be, at first glance, a heroic saga… "
wow, who would've guessed that they don't actually understand the ideas they're pushing back against. They're fighting caricatures and straw-people rather than actually trying to understand what's going on, so then when good ideas convince people of something that they don't understand (or ideas that are mostly good but get taken too far), they just see it as magic lies that offer a framework of heroism. Sounds like they might have been won over by the framework of heroism and noble rebel offered by mrm, and are projecting 👀
and to be clear, I'm not saying lies can't convince people. But at least understand why the lies are convincing, what hidden premises they might be built on, what common bias they target, etc, instead of just treating them as magic words.
Yeah, I've understood this community and similar ones to be about social norms, not rights. Your rights aren't being violated if someone tells you boys don't cry, but that person sure is being an asshole spreading bs and we should tell them they're wrong and push for better social norms
It was really good, many great points, many funny moments, solid work.
one point I liked was the point that many fantasies from women involve being strongly desired, and that incels are, in part, very frustrated that they’ve never felt desireable at all.
Well that’s a massive question that we certainly won’t see answered in our lifetime - we haven’t even figured out justice between humans, and we still have a long ways to go on just that front. I have some ideas on what a more just world might look like, but some are not feasible with the current state of the world. But I think a good place to start is with the original position/veil of ignorance thought experiment
why wouldn’t the natural order be unjust? Survival of the fittest doesn’t give two shits about justice, that’s not samething that gets selected for at all except in social species, and even then usually it’s only really selected for within the species
In some sense it is violence, but in another sense violence against a baby doll is fine while violence against a live baby is not. One of the key differences is the baby is sentient, the doll is not. The doll can not experience the violence, so it’s morally irrelevant. The baby can experience the violence, so it is morally unacceptable. To the best of my knowledge plants can’t feel pain, so violence to them is morally irrelevant.
But I still accept that harm is unavoidable (at least in our time), but our response should be to minimize harm, not throw up our hands and give up and perpetuate the injustice
Yeah, I mean when you look at how much suffering humans cause despite all our intelligence it’s not that hard to be jaded. Even then, at least for me, it’s a lot easier to empathize with humans than other species. It’s also a lot easier for me to empathize with humans in my social circles than humans I don’t know.
it bothers me when people arbitrarily limit who they’ll empathize with.
A lion hunting is violence. The circle of life is violent. I agree hunting isn’t the top priority of problems to solve, but people should at least be able to call it what it is and recognize it’s not a good thing
Yeah, doing the right thing is usually more expensive. Doesn’t mean it’s not worth it
i usually hear it in discussions like this, where people think cheap, sustainable, high protein, plant based foods are lacking. Beans and nuts and legumes are right there lol