theguardian.com

RainfallSonata , to Work Reform in The end of landlords: the surprisingly simple solution to the UK housing crisis

The yimby argument has always seemed flimsy. Its strange logic is that speculative developers would build homes in order to devalue them: that they would somehow act against their own interests by producing enough surplus homes to bring down the average price of land and housing. That would be surprisingly philanthropic behaviour.

It’s trickle-down economics applied to housing…

huginn ,

YIMBYism works - Tokyo housing is incredibly affordable not because of subsidies but because they just never stopped building more housing.

The problem with American housing is that it’s too easy to block.

Unless I’m mistaken the revenue source for property developers is selling the property. They don’t give a single fuck about how valuable it is after they’ve offloaded it.

Meron35 ,

People like to point to Tokyo as an example of YIMBYism fixing housing affordability, but I am skeptical of this explanation because 1) it fails to explain Japan’s spectular property bubble of the 1980s which happened in spite of its government loosening housing policy, and 2) housing prices in Japan are also currently rising and hitting all time highs.

Indeed, it was noted that loose housing policy during the 1980s bubble instead seemed to contribute to higher land and house prices, as developers prioritised office and retail space which had higher margins, at the expense of housing.

Instead, some economists attribute Japan’s relative affordability to their general fear in the property market that was leftover from the bubble bursting.

Also, property developers care very much about how valuable it is after they’ve sold it. This is because the more valuable property is, the higher their margins for future projects.

Why Tokyo’s record property prices are not just another real estate bubble - ft.com/…/40ce3cdc-5bc3-486f-b9e9-700af1087a65

Power from the Ground Up: Japan’s Land Bubble - hbr.org/…/power-from-the-ground-up-japans-land-bu…

Property Finance in Japan: Expansion and Collapse of the Bubble Economy - journals.sagepub.com/doi/epdf/10.1068/a260199

Taleya , to Star Trek in William Shatner: ‘Good science fiction is humanity, moved into a different milieu’

*Isaac Asimov.

fireweed , (edited ) to Work Reform in The end of landlords: the surprisingly simple solution to the UK housing crisis

One oversight by the article: changes in household size.

[Edit: I deleted an incorrect paragraph about population trends in the United States; I had misremembered a regional trend as a national one.]

For example, even if the housing supply and population in an area stay constant, if fewer people are living in each housing unit you’ll get a shortage. Yet nowhere in the article’s numerical analysis is there mention of this additional factor.

This is not to say that landlords aren’t a problem, but the entire premise of the article is that based on population and housing supply trends the supply “crisis” does not exist, which without incorporating changes in household size into their calculations is simply not a conclusion you can make.

mozz OP , (edited )
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

Where are you getting this? To me it looks like household size dropped precipitously between 1947 and 1990, and then stabilized around 2.6 in 1990, and now it's around 2.5. I think rent has gone up a little more than 4% since 1990 though.

I actually would guess that you're probably right about an increase in single people or couples or empty nesters as compared with big families, but that it's been offset by a rise in young or semi-young adults living with roommates. That's just me guessing though.

fireweed ,

You’re correct, I’ve amended my comment accordingly (I had mixed up demographic trends in California with national tends). However given that the article spends a lot of time comparing now and the 1970s, when there was a statistically significant difference in household size in the US, I feel that my point still stands, that we should know if there has also been a similar decrease in household size in the UK over the last half-century.

quindraco , to Work Reform in The end of landlords: the surprisingly simple solution to the UK housing crisis

I skimmed the article, but I missed the actual meat of the proposal. Did anyone catch how landlords are supposed to be abolished? Would they just… ban charging rent and leave it up to judges to define “rent”?

mozz OP , (edited )
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

It doesn't say, which is a little weird. This article explains it better.

Basically as I understand it, before the 1980s, the government owned a lot of the housing and rented it to people at fixed prices. This meant that renting your property out purely for profit was tough, and a lot of landlords actually sold their property to the government as council housing. That changed under Thatcher, who enabled private sales of the council housing, which originally sounded like a good idea (you can own the home you're already living in instead of renting it from the government), but increased privatization led to rent for profit led to inflation of monthly rent led to oh no.

The simple fix I suspect, is for the government to start buying up properties again for rent-at-reasonable-prices to tenants, competing with private landlords and poking a hole in the bubble of ever-increasing rents (with popping the bubble giving a lot of extra leverage of societal benefit as compared with the amount of money they're actually putting into the system.)

Kusimulkku ,

Sounds a lot like what municipalities in Finland are doing. A lot of the cities have city owned rental properties and actively develop land as part of city planning.

some_guy ,

That changed under Thatcher

Reagan and Thatcher engineered the hell we live in (in these two countries, anyway).

Nemo ,

Early on:

Rent controls, secure tenancies and high interest rates

were how landlords were put out of business the first time. Not regulation, but economic levers that made renting out property unprofitable.

Presumably, these levers still exist and can be pulled. It’s mentioned right after that the Thatcher administration worked to undo these effects, but the article moved on without further discussing how in detail.

Kusimulkku ,

Rent controls for private rents can be tricky. Sometimes it leads to money paid under the counter on top of rent, which is of course undesirable in a few ways. But having publicly owned (municipal etc) rental properties are an easier way to push rents down. But that also has a lot of trickiness in it.

gravitas_deficiency , to Work Reform in The end of landlords: the surprisingly simple solution to the UK housing crisis

Oh hey can you guys do the US next?

linuxfiend , to Star Trek in William Shatner: ‘Good science fiction is humanity, moved into a different milieu’
@linuxfiend@kbin.social avatar

Does Shatner finally understand Star Trek? Better late than never I guess?

JoYo , to Star Trek in William Shatner: ‘Good science fiction is humanity, moved into a different milieu’
@JoYo@lemmy.ml avatar

I donno man, sometimes I just want a mindfuck story that doesn’t involve the flesh sacks I already have to deal with.

inb4_FoundTheVegan , to Star Trek in William Shatner: ‘Good science fiction is humanity, moved into a different milieu’
@inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world avatar

Except when Shatner got a chance to direct, they went out to find God. Soooo… good quote, but from a pretty bad source.

wizardbeard , to Star Trek in William Shatner: ‘Good science fiction is humanity, moved into a different milieu’
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The statement alone is a good one, but this is not the guy you want to go to for advice about writing good science fiction.

downpunxx , to Star Trek in William Shatner: ‘Good science fiction is humanity, moved into a different milieu’
@downpunxx@fedia.io avatar

I kept an open mind about Shatner, even after all the cast member feuds and complaints spanning decades, right up until he missed Nimoy's funeral, after that, he was dead to me. As one of the biggest Star Trek fans growing up, the dude is a turd.

Binthinkin , to Star Trek in William Shatner: ‘Good science fiction is humanity, moved into a different milieu’

Dude is 93 and seems more coherent than our presidential candidates. Good on him.

captainjaneway , to Star Trek in William Shatner: ‘Good science fiction is humanity, moved into a different milieu’
@captainjaneway@lemmy.world avatar

Based solely on that quote, I whole heartedly agree. Science fiction is almost always supposed to expose something about our world through a different lens. Whilst it’s not the most elegant example, the two black & white striped races in TOS arguing over “black-white stripes vs white-black stripes” was a clear allegory for racism in our country when the show came out. District 9 is a decent allegory for something like Gaza & Israel: open air prisons and what-not.

Science fiction should (IMO) make the muddy waters of morality more clear.

A more nuanced example comes from Battlestar Galactica; wherein the human members of a concentration camp use suicide bombing as a means of rebellion. The show made sure to imply the efficacy of suicide bombing. It also made sure to expose the arguments against it. But I think during a post 9/11 world, suicide bombing was looked at as the root of all evil. Perpetrators were seen as aimless villains without a cause or reason (without a rational one, anyways). But BSG did make a compelling argument for such extreme cases of terrorist violence when your back is up against the wall.

The bajorans in DS9 also make cases for terrorism as an act of rebellion against colonizers.

I think science fiction is one of the only genres they really take a look at these topics. Other genres seem to only gleam the very tips of the morality iceberg.

pdxfed , (edited ) to Work Reform in ‘Huge breakthrough’ in Starbucks union talks – which other US firms will follow?

Willing to come to the table, now, to delay for a few hundred locations after being mandated to by NLRB, while suing that NLRB is unconstitutional in a separate suit hoping to have supreme Court rule on it. Classic

fizzyvelcro , to Work Reform in Take it from a former banker: the budget is for ordinary people. The mega-rich look on and laugh

Gary’s interview with Novara Media blew my mind a while back. I can highly recommend it.

This one is from a year ago, way before he blew up with his book. They also interviewed him again two ago, here.

RagingHungryPanda , to Work Reform in Take it from a former banker: the budget is for ordinary people. The mega-rich look on and laugh

holy shit, you’re not going to believe this, but I met the author at a hostel in Mexico City. He’s a really cool dude, friendly, funny, and pretty interesting overall. I actually totally forgot about this and glad to see the book is out!

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