So, I have a story about Star Trek the Animated Series.
My friends and I used to watch it in college, but it was a drinking game. We watched it in Spanish, with no subtitles (and none of us speak Spanish). And there were certain things they said every episode, and everybody drinks when they say it.
With Threshold I always was mildly impressed with how they made a point that evolution doesn’t necessarily mean that a species will become super advanced somehow. That they evolved “in-place” instead of over generations is still a pretty bonkers misunderstanding of evolution that they always fall for, but I guess watching them turn into lizards over the next several decades probably wouldn’t make the best TV lol
In my view, having rewatched Voyager again decades after first run, the show not only took successful risks in several episodes like the Demon duology or The Thaw, it has some ‘best ever’ episodes for employing some classic Star Trek tropes.
At the time, I suspect some fans focused on the ‘not new idea’ more than ‘did it better than’ but at this point it’s fairly clear.
For fans who came to Voyager first (including our kids), the original TOS and TNG episodes that Voyager built upon just seem weak by comparison.
More, when SNW does something similar, people are viewing these kind of episodes from the perspective of how well done within a type rather than criticizing them for reworking a trope.
I do agree with you, had no idea people disliked Voyager whe. I first watched it, and I overall enjoyed it very much. Yeah, the show has a bunch of out there episodes, but they tried new things and all great star trek shows have their good share of wacky episodes.
It’s not even like it doesn’t have good criticism points, Kes character was very mishandled and her relationship with Neelix was terrible, he becomes a 1000% more likable once she’s gone, and Chakotay whole botched native American heritage disaster… (Which granted, they tried, they just sucked at finding a specialist)
And Tuvix is one of the topics that guarantees a philosophical discussion in any star trek group I’m in without fail. I pretty firmly hate Tuvix, but that’s power.
A feel like that Ronald D. Moore rant that came out after he left the show really damaged the perception of the show in many fan circles. This damage getting even worse when Moore went on to create BSG which is some spectacular television.
Many of the continuity/‘reset button’ complaints seem to stem from it and today even Moore admits that he was being unreasonably harsh on the show. His issue was with Brannon Braga and his own problems taking instruction/being led by somebody he’s had creative clashes with who used to just be a colleague.
But Voyager could not and never would be BSG. The Federation is far more advanced than the colonies were as a prime sticking point. Are we really going to see the ship get damage over the course of the series as though replicators aren’t onboard?
Did Voyager play it safe in some areas? Sure. But it was a network tent pole for UPN. Much of the aspects of DS9 that people love wouldn’t exist without Voyager being the ‘star’ at the time at taking the networks attention. Not to mention that DS9 was as bad for, if not worse at reset buttons - remember that pylon that got blown up and was just fine the next ep? Remember how they blew up the Defiant and just went ‘lol here’s a new one with different carpet’ for the finale?
That was just the reality of TV at the time. CG got significantly cheaper in the years after they both went off air - as evidenced even within Trek with the persistent damage in Enterprises third season.
I’m also really glad that you mentioned Seven and how brave they were with a number of those stories. There was clearly network pressure for ‘T&A’ and they could have gone the very easy (TNG) route of having a character in a skin tight outfit that rotates through love interest and sexual assault plots for focus episodes but otherwise just stands around stating the obvious (Sorry Troi), instead they introduced an attractive character in a catsuit and immediately made her but heads with the Captain, run around like a maverick and in the process gave us one of Treks very best character development arcs (somewhat at the expense of other members of the cast mind).
We also have to remember that they wanted (and needed due to VHS recorders being unreliable at best) a show where you could kiss a few episodes but still tune in and have a good time. I think, perhaps better than any other Trek Voyager succeeded in its aims in this regard.
I loved enterprise, I didn’t think I’d be able to stop thinking ‘that’s the bloke from quantum leap’ but he’s captain Archer to me now.
Trip was great, I loved phlox, t’pol, porthos and Malcolm.
My favourite episode was the one where archer got his brain mashed by some anomaly and t’pol spent 12 years explaining the same thing to him every morning.
I could understand people being disappointed that TNG was over and feeling that the replacement wasn’t as great, but in itself watching it 10 years later I enjoyed it for the most part.
I too felt Picard season three was heavily overhyped, especially by many of the Star Trek specialty sites.
In general though, I welcome nonspoilery general early reviews, especially from less specialized professional reviewers.
In this case, I am noticing that the more mainstream reviews are the most positive and the specialized genre or franchise reviews are working for a more measured tone than with Picard.
Is it because the genre reviewers have felt the disappointment with of some of fandom with Picard, or is it because they are at heart TNG era fans? Makes one wonder.
In my own case, I can forgive much of the overly positive reviews of Picard because I really found the early episodes the strongest, with the writers doubling down on everything that most concerned me in the back half of the season. It was episode 6 where the wheels of plot and character began to come off and nostalgia was given the work of heavy lifting TNG fans through to the end.
With SNW being episodic, six episodes would seem to be enough to know if the shows continuing strongly or hitting a sophomore slump. No one yet has called slump. So it seems that those who liked season one should expect to be satisfied with season two.
I’ve been on a marathon since April. In order I’ve watched Discovery season 2-4, SNW, TNG, DS9 and am at season 6 of Voyager. I’ve also broken up Voyager with the first 6 movies.
I did manage a couple of ToS episodes but I honestly find ToS hard to watch.
Voyager is feeling like a slog so it’s not background viewing while I work from home and I’ve switched to The Orville for my evening viewing recently with a plan to watch Babylon 5 after.
@catshit_dogfart Voyager was my main Trek when I was younger and will always be my favourite. Janeway was awesome, and it's location in the Delta quadrant, far from Starfleet, made for some unique story opportunities.
When Seven was introduced, I was already bitter about the move Sliders made to remove a beloved character and bring on a hot woman, so I was really upset that Voyager did the same. But grew to love the character over time.
I’m still really sad that Kes was written off. Got no problem with Seven, but Kes was a good character on her own.
But, Neelix was pretty crap until Kes was removed from the show. Without her to be constantly jealous of, Neelix finally started to be useful and interesting.
I think the character of Kes was very poorly written. It limited the acting range of Jennifer Lien, which is only really given a chance to shine in the episode Warlord.
I really enjoyed Voyager and still watch episodes regularly. For me it was the idea of being so far from the “known universe” and what that would be like.
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