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chemical_cutthroat , (edited )
@chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

I’m glad she’s getting work, but I wish it wasn’t on that dumpster fire.

Edit: I guess I found the Goyer fanboys. Foundation sucks and is a slap in the face to the legacy of Asimov and classic Sci-Fi. “Foundation can’t be adapted…” Then fucking don’t and leave it alone. I hope Michael Bay gets tapped to start directing 1:1 adaptations of Star Trek I-V, and then they do an animated version of VI with Justin Roiland recording all of the voices.

downpunxx ,
@downpunxx@kbin.social avatar

from a not book reader (actually think I read them, but such a long time, I doubt you were even born yet), Foundation is Excellent fucking Science Fiction, and it's too bad you can't enjoy a production of this quality on this scale that just keeps getting incrementally better with every passing episode. it's really good televison, and the best show on tv right now.

Kraivo ,

Asimov’s works are quite hard to adapt to movies or TV series, imo. If you have read him once, you probably know

NuPNuA ,

Then don’t. Not everything needs to be adapted and watered down, sometimes stories just belong in their original medium.

Kraivo ,

If u ever read Asimov’s works, you would say something like “not everyone should be a writer”

simonzerafa ,
@simonzerafa@infosec.exchange avatar

@Kraivo @NuPNuA

Indeed but even for the good writers like Asimov not everything they write can be turnes into a movie or TV series.

For some it probably shouldn't be attempted.

NuPNuA ,

I’ve read all five of the original Foundation books and most of the Robot series and Edge of Eternity. Why do you think I haven’t read him?

Kraivo ,

I do not think that you haven’t reed his books. I just meant that Asimov’s way of describing thing and writing stories stands off and it might feel hard to read.

BrainisfineIthink ,
@BrainisfineIthink@lemmy.one avatar

I’ve just started the show, and I feel like from the outset they made it clear that a LOT of the show is creative fiction to fill in the gaps. I feel like a lot of people forget just how short the original trilogy is. F, F&E and SF, collectively, are like an 8 hour read! I don’t love everything the show has done (and some of the acting is atrocious) but I love how they chose what boils down to allusions in the books and focused whole episodes on what that would’ve looked like in real time.

I also really like how they are not afraid to completely abandon cliff hangers for several episodes at a time, while still keeping you invested in what’s happening. Asimov dwas notorious for that and did it SEVERAL times on the trilogy. Oh you wanna know what happens? Well I’ll tell you eventually, but first, here’s forty pages introducing brand new characters on a completely different planet…300 years in the future. Bitch.

NuPNuA ,

If the books were too short for a series, why not make a film or a series of films rather than stretching it out?

BrainisfineIthink ,
@BrainisfineIthink@lemmy.one avatar

Its kind of fucked either way. They’re too short but a lot happens because each book is broken into thirds that are separated by huge time gaps, and inside those thirds there are also time gaps. A movie, even a long one, would be incredibly disjointed and the pacing would feel bizarre.

I imagine it’s probably why nobody has made it a series or movie before even though it’s such a beloved sci Fi series. You’d have to take a lot of creative liberties with it, which is for better or worse, what they’re doing.

JasSmith ,

With all due respect, I strongly disagree. I admit my views are coloured by my love of Asimov’s work, and their radical re-write has left a bad taste in my mouth. But when I analyse this show objectively I am left bewildered that anyone could call it “excellent fucking science fiction.”

Most of the actors are TERRIBLE. It was like watching wooden planks act. Instead of developing the story in any meaningful way, the directors chose to focus on disparate and dream-like sequences which appear to have little connection to each other. Bizarre pacing. They took the expansive time gaps and somehow made them confusing and meaningless. The dialogue is atrocious. The CGI is laughable. The accents are ridiculous. This is science fiction of the worst kind.

Lee Pace is the only reason I finished season one. Despite the horrific writing, he somehow pulls it off. The Expanse set the bar very high for sci-fi, but it showed us it can be done well. Foundation is fantasy in space. It’s Wheel of Time and Rings of Power in space bad.

Mina ,

@JasSmith

As far as I see it: The series actually reverts the whole premise of Asimov's vision, which is:

The behaviour of large groups of people can be modelled statistically, whilst in the series, everything hinges on specific events and persons.

If you want to film a long term epic tale about galactic civilisations, be my guest, but don't call it "Foundation".

Note: As good as Asimov's world building is, literarily, he's only mediocre.

@StillPaisleyCat @chemical_cutthroat @downpunxx

Mina ,

@JasSmith

Now that I pissed off as well the fans of the series, as the ones of Asimov, let me explain:

Asimov set milestones for SF:

His Laws of Robotics and Foundation are cornerstones of the genre.

When I say: "His literature is mediocre" it's because he is not truly interested in his characters. He has no love for them. His stories are ideas driven, not character driven.

I'd still recommend him to anybody, even mildly interested in SF.

@StillPaisleyCat @chemical_cutthroat @downpunxx

StillPaisleyCat OP ,
@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website avatar

I can get behind this take.

I don’t think we should over-exalt 20th century science fiction literature that was fantastic at communicating concepts and ideas but made no genuine effort to do that with well developed characters.

The awe factor was great, and it did inspire, but even for avid readers, it can be a slog. If one takes the position the value of science fiction lies in engaging a broader audience than those of us who can read the math and follow the science, then it needs to be engaging enough that it attracts and holds the interest that audience.

At this point in my life, I expect both good ideas and good characterization and storytelling. Otherwise, I’d rather just read stories and models in real math. I have no criticism at all of the show’s EPs effort to make the ideas in Foundation more appealing and accessible with better storytelling.

I first read the Foundation series in my teens, after Dune and Dune Messiah, having graduated out of John Wyndham and run out of Arthur C Clark at my school and public libraries. Foundation held my attention, the ideas were cool, but I was also reading anything I could when I wasn’t doing schoolwork. I find it hard to imagine it would have held my interest in the face of the kinds of diversions kids can take with them now.

NuPNuA ,

It’s not really Foundation though is it. It’s one plot that has a passing resemblance to Foundation but misses a lot of the point and another plot that’s interesting but has nothing to do with any of the books about the Emperor. I didn’t find the first series enitely unenjoyable, but I’m annoyed they wasted the license to one of my favourite book series for a show that could have been anything.

Moghul ,

I’m not the OP but I got a bone to pick with the way you wrote this comment.

actually think I read them, but such a long time, I doubt you were even born yet

Lmao what a weird thing to say. Congratulations on being older?

it’s too bad you can’t enjoy a production of this quality on this scale

True, I can’t enjoy a low quality show that focuses on meaningless drivel between poorly written and acted characters.

just keeps getting incrementally better with every passing episode. It’s really good televison, and the best show on tv right now

I wholeheartedly disagree on this. Even if it were good, which it really really really isn’t, shows like The Bear and Severance are on an entirely higher tier.

JasSmith ,

I agree. I grew up reading Asimov. It ignited my passion for reading and sci fi. To see how badly they’ve butchered this material is devastating. It bears almost no resemblance. Like so many Hollywood projects, the only thing it has in common with the material is some character names. Everything else is creative writing. Because of course modern writers think they’re better than Isaac Asimov.

IonAddis ,
@IonAddis@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t even like Asimov’s work (his characters are awful) and what I watched of the first season of Foundation was pretty bad. I can’t imagine what fans of his books must’ve thought.

I was hoping an adaption that shored up his weaknesses in characterization while finally showing me what all the fuss was about, and I didn’t get that at all.

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