IMO this is why it’s super important that the Republicans, especially Trump, don’t win the next election (even more so than usual.) There are already literal nazis outside Disney Land, the absolute last thing anyone needs is some dickhead pardoning the Proud Boys and emboldening the far right even further.
How do you see the dems stopping the rise of fascism? Not asking in bad faith, it’s just that the things you describe are happening under a democratic president.
The sentencing of these proud boys truly is a good thing, don’t get me wrong (but we must also add that their convictions only came after threatening the state, not the threatening of marginalized people). The rise of fascism however isn’t stopped with this ruling. The conditions that foster it aren’t adressed.
What do you think the democrats should do after an electoral victory in 2024 to achieve this?
I’m not going to lecture anybody on voting for dems but the bar is so low that “what are they gonna do to stop the rise of fascism” they aren’t going to pardon all of them and embolden them. I don’t think they’ll ever do anything to really meaningfully oppose them but not pardoning them and showing people there’s literally no consequences from it is the least most bad option.
Yea I’m basically at the point where I don’t think things will get better under a democrat but a lot of people far more vulnerable to fascists then me have talked about preferring to not have the president using them as a scapegoat everyday.
Although as somebody who lives in the boonies all the chuds around me get way more fired up and antagonistic when there’s a dem president. There’s a shitload of flags telling me to go fuck myself on the way to work and the numbers increased in the last couple years.
Although it has been interesting to take the temperature of your average chud by checking to see if the one trump/ DeSantis flag is still up.
I am encouraging you to be honest, not to sacrifice yourself, though if you think my complaint with the dems is “ideological purity” then you clearly don’t understand why liberals are so terrible to begin with.
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by “dems are in power now”? Are you saying they have complete and unfettered control over the entire government to do as they wish?
As best they can. Are you saying they can take unilateral action without the full support of the House of Representatives? What do you think they could be doing that they’re not?
you should read how the republicans plan to avoid congress in order to accomplish their aims the next time they seize the white house. and also how fast the dems are moving right on trans issues.
I am fully aware of how Republicans have abandoned democracy in order to accomplish their goals. And I have no doubt that Democrats are being spineless about trans issues. But I asked a very specific question that, given your complaints, you ought to be able to answer easily. Without control of both houses of Congress as well as the Oval Office, what could the Democrats be doing that they aren’t?
I mean honestly I think the dems being in power is kind of like sticking a band-aid on a gunshot wound at this point, but the Republicans in power is like treating it with… more gunshots or something lol. I think the US needs pretty fundamental change to actually fix anything substantial, but I don’t think that’s realistically going to happen anytime soon. Not trying to “lesser of two evils” it or anything, I just meant that the first step is to probably to shut the nazis down.
And are the dems taking meaningful action to do this? From where I’m sitting, I’d say they are not as the fash is only gaining steam under the current administration.
But the Nazis aren’t getting shut down, and we have a Dem president already. Clearly something other than red/blue elections are needed to shut Nazis down, as history hopefully helps demonstrate.
Right but all those other things get shit down immediately, its just the harm reduction argument again.
If the options are do nothing, elect the fascists who want to murder Trans people, or elect useless libs who aren’t actively calling for the execution of trams people seems like one of those options is preferable even if still shitty.
So I guess I’d turn the question around, what are the better alternatives to shut this shit down at this point.
Again not arguing that anybody should feel like voting for libs is gonna solve anything but if it means the people literally explicitly calling for violence against minorities have slightly less direct access to governmental power that seems like the least worst option available at this point.
alternatively, morons can't be frightened, they never see themselves as being in the wrong or having to suffer the consequences of their actions, morons are bereft of wisdom which comes from learning by watching other peoples actions and experiences. magats are morons by definition. ipso facto.
Doubtful. These are the same idiots who yell “trump won!” after being hauled off after sentencing. They haven’t learned a thing. Look at Mike Huckabee’s war mongering quotes that came out today.
Each of these folks is now a hero in the eyes of MAGA enthusiasts. They’ve been martyred after a fashion. They’ll be able to generate a steady flow of cash for probably a solid decade whether behind bars or released.
Maybe they will be pissed that Trump and the rest of the really fashy right wingers in the USA political establishment have left them out to hang, but the next time a right wing populist gets them all riled up they will know to go full force and not waver like they did during January 6. They got to experience first hand what “going halfway” gets you and will learn from it.
They’ll probably get a good cash stream at first. But I’m not sure most people in America have enough object permanence to care about these folks after a few years. Won’t they be like a Reality Winner, where almost no one remembers them a few years later except as a trivia answer at trivia night?
Not saying these people are going to be millionaires… But they’ll be able to make the rounds on right wing radio, local church speech circuits, all the neo fash militia groups that are around and be probably be able to have a nice safety net that most of the rest of us won’t have when we need it.
Like, seriously, the answer to “If you actually punish them they’ll become a martyr” is to punish all the people they become martyrs to in turn. Pretty simple stuff frankly
I’m not saying that they shouldn’t get punished, hurt them any way possible, they’re the enemy and fair game. But I don’t think this is going to finish them. And how long before the libs decide that “the government is going too far” and stop supporting the judicial attempts to punish these people? How much mileage can they get from the schadenfreude before it gets boring? I’d imagine that once that happens, Dems won’t be able to get as much juice for their fundraising efforts over this and prosecutions will start happening less and less.
And the people that were sitting on top of the walls cheering them on, have gotten to walk away pretty much free from all serious punishment. In a better country, this might make some lights come on in the old thinkin’ box that their leaders are mostly grifters and stop supporting them… but… if the polls are anything to pay attention to, Trump is as popular as ever and he’s the only one even remotely getting into some legal trouble.
I’m hoping that all the fashy TeaParty types stabbing each other in the backs over crumbs might have some negative effects on the disparate fascist groups organizing with each other… but I’ve got to admit that its most cope than hope at this point.
five Proud Boys convicted for some of the most serious crimes
You’re all fucking crazy, they didn’t have any power to stage a coup or topple democracy you morons. They simply entered a building !
You can’t all sincerely believe that they were going to achieve anything by entering the Capitol, the historical place to have manifestations ?
Political prisoners aren’t only people whose ideology you agree with, you’re sending people who didn’t hurt anyone ^(o.m.g., he pepper sprayed a cop) to almost a decade in jail, sometimes fathers&mothers, am i living in a parallel universe ?
Yes they could have. If they went to the right chamber and started killing representatives or at least taking them prisoner they could have. All it would take is a smart, motivated, evil leader to take the reigns and that day could have ended very differently.
Thankfully those idiots had no one leading them. But I do wonder why Russia or China didn't exploit the situation to their advantage.
Or they would have exchanged their arguments like the civilised people we’re supposed to represent. If they killed your representatives that would be worth a decade or more in jail i suppose, but they didn’t, they simply entered a building and are accused of having attempted to overthrow the government, an accusation that no one can take seriously(, and yet).
Russia, China, or the many other sanctioned countries, can rejoice on their medias, who are either banned or not read by the “free world”, but otherwise, i don’t see how they could profit from it. More importantly, they wouldn’t be glad that their enemy has problems if we were allied, this world f*cking stinks, and shouldn’t.
You're free to go ahead and look at all the evidence presented for the proud boys and oath keepers. It's all right there but that would pop your right wing bubble. No idea gets sedition charges for entering a building. And we all watched it live on TV, most people take what happened very seriously.
After being sentenced, Biggs called into a vigil held by pro-insurrectionists outside the jail and declared that his 17-year sentence was “insanity,” even though it was half what prosecutors had asked for. “They can kiss my ass. We’re still fighting all the way to the end,” he told the crowd, imploring them to “never give up.” He also called into “Infowars” to insist, “We didn’t do anything wrong.”
No one has been scared straight here. The ones who got got are martyrs to the cause and the ones who flip are traitors or plants.
They’ll either be more careful next time or they’ll be just as sloppy but convince themselves it’ll work out, because this time is different.
No doubt. It hasn’t hit home…yet: the American public is unhappy with THEM.
So, for now, they are deluding themselves with magical thinking that a pardon is in their future. When it’s 2030 & their ass is still stuck in jail, and nobody gives a shit about whatever petty grievances they thought they had … then, and only then, will it sink in: it wasn’t worth it, and they wasted whatever platform they thought they built on a cause that used them like the tools they are.
The American public isn’t unhappy with them, though. Republicans are at worst annoyed and the large segment of non-voting/non-political people aren’t invested either way. It’s Democrats who are unhappy with them, but they already knew that.
then, and only then, will it sink in: it wasn’t worth it, and they wasted whatever platform they thought they built
If this comes to pass it still has nothing to do with “scaring the rest of MAGA straight.” At best you’ll have these assholes crying into their pillow in prison, forgotten by any significant movement outside.
Then there’s the possibility that they never get pardoned but become martyrs/celebrities on the right (already happening), or the possibility that Trump wins in 2024 and they do get pardoned. Again, nothing here to dissuade the broader MAGA movement.
MAGA will go the way of 2004 George Bush voters; sure, he was elected, but try and find someone who admitted they helped him to his second term. "Oh no, I didn’t vote, I voted independent, I … " sure buddy.
“Republicans are at worst annoyed” – read what Pence has to say about that, alongside GOP senators + congresspeople who were cowering next to Democrats, wondering if that day was going to be their last. The killing of cops, the destruction and storming of the federal government, the strong arm of a private policy over foundations of democracy … that did not set well with the voting electorate. NeoNazis? Sure, they ate it up.
The guy who owns his own plumbing outfit and has three other plumbers working for him? That did and does not sit well, not at all.
Honestly, what Trump showed is that there is a thirst for politicians to reach out to issues that the majority cares about, and this majority doesn’t see identity politics as helping them. They/them, black lives matter, even MeToo, none of that shit is on the agenda of most Americans. People want to hear- we are helping protect your way of life, the life of your mother and father that you are trying to pass onto your son and daughter. That’s all Trump did, plus the worst overtones imaginable, despite having zero ability to deliver, which didn’t matter as he had zero intention of trying.
“Republicans are at worst annoyed” – read what Pence has to say about that, alongside GOP senators + congresspeople who were cowering next to Democrats, wondering if that day was going to be their last.
And then when asked he said he’d still vote for hum if he was the candidate.
Im not sure how you haven’t figured out to recognize performative outrage from republicans at this point.
good point. I still think when 10 MAGA 4 LIFE types go into the voting booth come the general election, Trump is not going to get 10 votes. He may not get 10 votes in the primary.
MAGA is the 2004 Bush voters, my friend. Did you forget that Karl Rove engineered a win in Ohio by getting gay marriage on the ballot? Now those same hogs are squealing about “groomers” and attacking drag events. They didn’t go away before, and they’re not going to go away now.
The idea is that if similar senteces were given to similar protests in north korea or iran or russia etc. There would be huge outrage in the mainstream press calling them authoritarian and totalitarian and so on.
that those countries are not nearly as bad as the us.
Absolutely restrict fascist media. I have heard every one of the arguments against it and they all suck. Unregulated free speech is a fucking disgraceful failure and gave us fascists and fascism. You’re not “shining light on the cockroaches”; you are normalizing genocidal ideology. I cant help but notice that radical right wing violence has been rising ever since Rush Limbaugh went on the air.
salon.com
Oldest