I think this makes some great point but doesn't talk enough about how the cultures makes sex exclusively about the conquest for men as well. There is almost no talk about intimacy or pleasure from the sex but rather if it was gotten at all. The overall goal is have sex. Its isn't pleasure focused for either party with the assumption is that the man ejaculates from PIV. The queer and kink communities have really focused on the entire aspects and emotions that sex can provide. This trickled into most sex positive books and most of the advice was geared to women to allow them to feel any sexual pleasure but is applicable for all genders.
I think most men understand that sex can provide multiple emotions at once but can't articulate what they need and how they get it outside of sex as well. We need to talk about how young men want love and that sex can be part of that. I highly recommend people look into kink and sex positive books to understand relationships and what sex can mean outside the traditional sexist narrative.
For general sex and relationships I recommend Hot and Unbothered. Its from a sex therapist and it talks about how to find and ask about the sex that you actually want. Its got great advice for anyone about how to think about your relationship and even has some exercises and worksheet (like a Yes, No & Maybe checklist).
For Kink the top two books are The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book which gives overview for topping and bottoming. They both start with some examples of what goals or feeling you might want to achieve. Some of their examples are Empathy, Creativity, Bigness, Nurturing, Control, innocence, Lust, Power etc. It then gives some practical advice about how to start with experimenting and how to ask about getting what you want. Its a great way to see what is out there even if you aren't interested in kink.
The real reason you should check them out is for communication skills for on-going enthusiastic consent. If you see how someone asks to be hog tied with a ball gag in their mouth and whipped silly its easy to ask for anything else. Same with safety both emotional and physical. The most interesting part is how right after giving detailed instructions on how to whip someone is how choking is never safe. Its interesting to see what can be safe and what cannot be.
I’ve known several incels, and in my experience, their entitlement to sex is really just an extension of wanting to feel loved.
Men grow up in a near drought of love and physical affection. After about 5 years old, we can’t hug our best friends.
Then men are told that they will pick a blushing bride that will be everything to them.
And when that doesn’t work, they become bitter and don’t know what to do with the rejection, because they have shit coping skills and mix up their entitlement for love with an entitlement for sex.
It’s a mess. I’m not absolving the incels of their shitty behaviour, but I’m also not going to say that “they deserve to feel unloved”
But I think the solution starts with recognizing that the incels actually want love. In my experience, women want to feel loved, and THEN trust you physically with sex. This makes sense because the physical danger for women is very real. Men seem to do it backwards. They want to get physical first and then trust you with love, since emotional danger is very real to them.
Anyways I’ll stop rambling, this is a mix of facts and personal experiences, but I really stand by the general point.
Thanks, I go through great pains to try and truly understand issues rather than “grab the pitchforks”
It’s all too easy to see someone as evil, rather than just a person hurting. Once you see the hurt, you have to be careful not to go all “bleeding heart” and excuse their crimes.
I’ve known several incels, and in my experience, their entitlement to sex is really just an extension of wanting to feel loved.
Men grow up in a near drought of love and physical affection. After about 5 years old, we can’t hug our best friends.
I think you really have hit the nail on the head about how sex is the only source for a lot of important emotions and needs that is socially acceptable in a toxic gender roles based system. Sex is the only place that physical intimacy, honesty, giving / receiving pleasure, tenderness, feeling sexy etc. can be achieved. Most people cannot express that correctly and can't see they can get it elsewhere. This causes tons of issues for people both within and without relationships.
For sure. Be the change you want to see to all your male friends. I hug all my friends and have started complimenting my male friend a lot more. It's infective
INCELS need to realise their problems stem from needing to be loved. It’s not anyone else’s job to understand them and fix their lives FOR them. But we can help them understand insofar as they’re willing to learn.
The second thing they and all of us need to realise is that we can’t get ALL our love from romantic partners. That puts a HUGE burden on the relationship. We need to learn how to share platonic love again. That’s what’s breaking us men. If we can’t learn to love eachother without toxic masculinity telling us it’s “gay” or whatever, then we’re doomed to losing men to loneliness, despair, and inceldom.
This is the men’s revolution that’s needed. The feminist revolution came, and was absolutely necessary, and now we need one for men. We didn’t keep up with the times.
Exactly right. The queer and feminist community made it acceptable to be whoever they want to be. Time for men to join the forces and do what makes them happy and to not what they think they have to. Remember that if someone else likes something different or hates something you love that doesn't diminish your enjoyment
Actually I block quite a few meme instances the minute I see them. I enjoy memes only in moderation and I hate group-chat spam, most groups-chats I have to participate in, are muted.
I haven’t been in a dedicated men only group chat but I can imagine that if you get the right guys in a group it might just be „that easy“. I think it’s a great space to try and model how you want to interact with your peers.
And I’m glad to hear that the author has that support group in his life :)
I personally also find it a bit easier to share heavy topics over texting rather than talking.
I haven’t been in a dedicated men only group chat but I can imagine that if you get the right guys in a group it might just be „that easy“. I think it’s a great space to try and model how you want to interact with your peers.
And I’m glad to hear that the author has that support group in his life :)
I personally also find it a bit easier to share heavy topics over texting rather than talking.
What we’re seeing is Trump running down a Kubrickian hallway that just leads him right back to where he started. It’s delicious. 
If it were just one trial or set of charges he was facing, it might succeed, but the sheer plurality has his resources strained to the point of breaking like a computer forced to compute too many complex equations and thereby slowed to a crawl, left defenseless.
Now, of course, white people are 100% fully capable of calling out racial bias. Anita is wholly in the right here and the commission is in the wrong. It’s just brutally stupid showing us she’s white and then claiming she’s black.
Good moment to point out that "white" is an ever-changing target that constantly moves as needed by the white people in power. Remember "one drop" was their rule. There's no such thing as "white".
Fun fact that demonstrates the point: depending on your locale you may already be seeing this happen, but Latinos are about twenty years away from being considered defacto "white people". And it's not accidental. It's a coordinated effort to get hold of a rising voting bloc that's historically very conservative.
If you live in California you might already recognize the difference between Norteno and Sureno (speaking colloquially, not referring to the gangs using those words as their names). If you've been paying attention to folks like Enrique Tarrio, Raphael Ted Cruz, and George "This is My Name This Month" Santos, you'd see it happening elsewhere too.
Latinos who don't embrace their Latino culture while they're here in America are being indoctrinated the same way they did the Irish and Italians before them. Remember neither of those groups were "white" when they first arrived in America either. The inner circle already accepted them as White People, they're just working on their adherents now. Ask yourself why so many second generation Mexican-American immigrants are hesitant to call themselves Mexican. Nope, they'll use Latino though. They've internalized that word as what the white people mean by it, it's a dirty word in that context.
And this is the effect of culturally ingrained racism. We saw it with Irish, Italians, we see it with Black Americans, and we see it with Mexican Americans too. The patterns are right there and obvious.
A long time ago I had a friend with about the same coloring as Earls. She was "black" by genetics: born of darker skinned parents (one quite dark, one lighter), and all her siblings were quite a bit darker then her. Among the white group of friends I was part of, she totally passed as white and generally didn't mention it, but as I got to know her better she showed me her family pictures.
This just showcases the complexity of what it means to be black, or white. But I think in this case, Earls is correctly speaking as a black woman.
I'm gonna point out that it is only complex to not be white. It is not complex to be white. That's a simple determination white society makes, that's all the complexity there is. That determination.
Irish people weren't white, then they were.
Italian people weren't white, then they were.
Latino people weren't white, then they were. They're getting there. See my other comment.
Jews still aren't "white". They're "Jews". Secular Jews get to be white though. "The good ones", they'll say. Hrm.
There's no group mastering over white people making them play by some ever-changing set of made up rules. That's what it is to be not white in America. Literacy tests, citizenship tests, background tests, sundown towns, don't look a white woman in the eye, mind your manners, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Those are all things done to minorities that have never been done to white people.
"White" is not a complex thing. Full disclosure, I'm a white guy. First generation Italian American, my dad came off a boat at Ellis Island and his family had to cross America all the way to California to find people who treated them as equals. Italians, they're as complex as Germans and the Dutch. But white? White isn't complex.
I chose the term "complex" in order to gently correct the person I was responding to without stirring the pot any more than necessary. As I reflect on your words correcting me, I still think the term is proper for white people, for the concept of whiteness. If anything, maybe more so. Being Black, or Chinese, or Jewish....all of these are a clear identity which doesn't change over time. Being white, that's not much of a clear identity at all. As your examples demonstrate, whether or not one is white in America varies over time as our racial values change. White people (as defined in our society) certainly take more than their share of all the good stuff our world offers, but that doesn't mean being white isn't complex. The very fact that your "race" can be white one generation but not in another, that's complex rather than simple.
And yes, people have been and are being horribly abused for not fitting the current definition of white. I would say it's more difficult to be considered not white (whatever your actual skin color), but not more complex.
I was just following orders how would I have been expected to understand the implications
It’s funny how these people are all complete and absolute morons whenever “common sense” is the baseline denominator to hold them against… these people do not represent us if they don’t understand the scope of thier positions.
So which is it? Either you know full well what you did, or: you shouldn’t have been in the office in the first place? Both are issues.
I’ve never thought about it but I think I have this bias. It’s something I’ll try and think on and correct because it’s dumb.
If someone was describing their friend that posts to Instagram 20 times a day I would 100% picture a woman. If they told me it was a dude it would have bumped me a little.
It’s probably tied to that old (incorrect) thought that women talk more than men.
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