At least in Germany, especially here in the eastern part where right-wing radicalisation is very prevalent, the lack of adequate street-work (in this sense) and youth centres offers is discussed as a contributing factor. More generally/systemically, I’ve seen arguments that the sudden and wholesale disappearance of previous social structures that engaged youth[1] left the space open for neo-Nazi groups to basically be “the people who are there, who give us something to do and a reason to do it”.
As to what that kind of street-work looks like, even if not offered at nearly enough capacity, here’s an example. It ranges from organising leisure activities to helping kids who have trouble with the law - so that neo-nazis aren’t the ones who are the first to offer their help and win their trust.
[1]: Such as the Protestant Church and the state-controlled youth organisation of the GDR - reminder: what was previously keeping kids engaged doesn’t have to necessarily be good. Something bad can be replaced by something also bad. The point is to replace it by something good.
I think it is getting better. I have a "Boys Get Sad Too" hoodie (recommend them wholeheartedly) and so far I have gotten only positive comments, even from people where you might not have expected it.
As a trans woman who grew up being taught boys don’t cry, it’s taken me the better part of 6 years to learn how to connect with my emotions healthily. I’m so sorry that society treats y’all like this. 💜
I basically had suppressed my emotions my whole life. Since puberty I could count on one hand with fingers to spare the number of times I legit cried before transition and it was usually something like death of a pet or family member.
Some of thst was from running on the wrong hormones, but plenty of cis men are able feel emotional on T. A lot was being scared of showing I had emotion.
I've faired better as I'm not 2 years into transition and already feel like a different person.
This is so true. I think for a lot of us this advice (or often command) was most frequently heard in these exact words during adolescence. That said this sentiment can at times feel very present.
In my experience it’s gotten better amongst men. Men telling each other to “man up” has largely died, and they are much better at supporting each other. A lot have gotten much better at recognizing when to ask for help too.
However, I think there are a lot of men in relationships under pressure to always be the rock, the protector and provider. They’re not allowed to have a problem or a weakness. I mean it’s a great way to flush out awful candidate partners. Show a little vulnerability and see how disinterested they get, but it gets tiresome.
When I see a gay men acting up like the stereotypical gay, I feel like they are acting it up in the same way when I see a very macho hetero man, or a very stereotypical feminine women. I don’t feel like they are genuine, it almost feel scripted to me. Could it be that it feels more genuine to them ? I’m projecting my bias here obviously.
I’m not sure how common my own experience is, but I’ve lost most of my friends from group toxicity. Not to have a messiah complex, but the whole reason my “friends” hung out for years was because of me and my parties. I stopped having parties and we were still just as close. As soon as I settled down with someone out side of the group, a few of them started causing problems to the point that I disassociated from the group.
Last year my wife and I went to a BBQ (that I had to be persuaded to go to by my wife, who took the brunt of the bullying) where they apologized for how they treated us. We thought everything was good. It came to light that we were not invited to their big get together this year. Then it was clear they were purposely excluding us from a ton of things. No one wished me a happy birthday, though they knew when it was, and my “best” friend regularly travels a hundred miles to another friend’s house that is 10 miles away, but I haven’t seen him since his birthday, which I traveled a hundred miles away for.
It’s sad feeling the bridges are burned, but I would much rather spend time with my family than the friends that justify hurting my family.
True male friendship is paradoxical, in that it is intimate without intimacy. Men neither touch each other physically nor discuss anything directly – what is said out loud is trivial and everything important is unspoken. If a subtext is identified, it’s quickly ignored before moving on, since no man wants to turn a subtext into an actual text over a few beers.
Is that true male friendship, though? Taking that flaky relationship and labeling it true friendship might be a contributing factor to see them not surviving the many ebbs and flows of life. My best friendships, the ones that are alive and well, are exactly NOT like that.
If you no longer need an audience, then why hang out with them?
Oof, I hope you don’t really believe that. Aside from “attention” that you get with friends, you should also get compassion, empathy, and love. And sometimes it’s just nice to have companionship.
I had the distinct misfortune of being a loner for my formative years. As I’ve aged, I never hit my stride or found my niche. I have plenty of hobbies and things I enjoy, but no place to share them… even if I find a convention or rare place to explore them with others, they are often filled with people who already found their people and aren’t seeking any new applicants. Or, more likely, these places are far from where I am.
It then returns the burden to me. Do I keep my job and pay and current possessions… or do I sell all of it and move closer to the places I can find others? No, not even that: give up stability and security for the chance to find places to find others. Not even guaranteedz
even if I find a convention or rare place to explore them with others, they are often filled with people who already found their people and aren’t seeking any new applicants
Any group like that doesn't deserve your awesomeness my fellow person ✊.
Sometimes I travel a long way to put myself in a situation I think will may result in meeting like minded people and then when I get there I do nothing but look around a bit and then go home.
It happens so often! You break out of the comfort zone and spend resources and energy to make the effort, only to have nothing to show for it. Coming away with something (or someone!) is never the intended goal, but you’d feel better if you did, right?
I never had the chance to gain friends in my formative years; I grew up in neighborhoods filled with what were apparently now proto-fascists - this community would recognize the toxic masculinity. They all hated me simply because my family was poor, or because I moved in from somewhere else. They were never clear on why. All I know is that I am hated wherever I go, no matter how kind I am to others. There is no place for me on Earth - not even the option to move far away, because the part of people that hates the “other” is universal.
More now than ever, you find people that are takers and not givers. I was raised that if you were kind and generous, that you would attract others. But when everyone takes what you give, but gives nothing in return, you burn out and feel used. Once you have nothing left to give, they go away.
You’re only welcome if you have something to offer. If you have nothing, you are nothing in their eyes. Hi lighting the differences between us all is a worrying trend.
Of course it's Crowder at the forefront of this - the narcissistic manchild who was caught on-camera being such a vile piece of shit to his eight-month-pregnant then-wife that even his biggest simps couldn't pretend that it was defensible.
Eh. Not the best article but I appreciate the sentiment.
I certainly agree with it. I think that there’s a level of friendship that I never allow others to crack unless they were bridged in as members when we were young.
All the people I meet now are “acquaintances”. They’re nice, I’m okay to reach out if I need anything, but more often then not they’re the partner of someone else. I smile at them. I tolerate them. I might even have a drink with them. But there’s a distance there that you can’t crack.
It’s like that great 80s movie, “Stand by me”: “I never had any friends later on like the ones when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?” youtu.be/l7r-R61W1DQ
This part stuck out to me. When I was younger I often got myself into bad situations that presented opportunities form connections through shared experiences. As I get older I’m fucking up less and when I do it’s just me trusting myself and going through it alone.
To truly like a person, you need trust, and that requires emotional investment – an increasingly rare commodity as you age – so as old friends fade away, they cannot simply be replaced. The space to build trust with newcomers is just not there.
I think the unsaid part is just time spent together- when you’re a kid it’s easy to have dozens of hours a week to hang out and bond. As you age, there’s other time commitments - kids, spouse, family, maintaining a house, etc. In order to have that emotional investment you need to get past the awkward first stages of friendship.
I think a lot of people lose/drop their hobbies, or the things that let them bond and meet other people. It’s hard to say “I dropped football and now I lost 50% of male conversation” without more info. If all your friends are only bonding over football, yeah. So find other things to do! There’s a million of them, and people are always passionate about their own interests. Find people with similar interests.
The author also mentions “it feels like they’re always just someone’s partner” and that’s very telling. Are the only men you’re engaging with those who are partners of your own spouse? Well no shit you’re not feeling like you have friends. I like my wife’s friends partners, but they’re firmly in the acquaintance category.
I had a good friend move to the same small town I’m in. Between work and family, we don’t get together for months on end, even though he’s a 5 min drive down the road. We want to get together, but we’re both too exhausted and burnt out.
It’s also the societal loss of “3rd places”. There’s home, work, and then… where else do you actually meet people? And if you do, where do you connect with them? Especially low-cost and not health-damaging like a bar…
The article feels likes it’s missing the mark a bit.
Stoicism is not about repressing emotions or performative masculinity, but rather about examination and self improvement. Steven R Covey is a good example of modern stoicism. You can still feel deeply and act accordingly, but that doesn’t mean that one is reactive and emotionally impulsive.
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