I find it interesting how most of those “studies” take a very shallow approach with main premise: how to perrle vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. I have no problem with folks eating whatever the heck they like, but stop peddling me your preferences based on pseudo-science. I’ve been eating “clean” for over a decade now amd I can say with certainty that vegetarian/vegan diet will near damn kill me at best it’ll cripple me: sensitive to gluten, sugar and nuts, baloon from carbs. Not dealing great with soy etc. Any in-store “vegan” choices nutrutionally inferior to non-vegan as it stands (I do not say they are inheritently so but that the current fact). Industry is busy using adversarial politics pushing more addictive and harmful stuff onto our collective plates and we say nothing.
There’s not such thing as “universal dietary profile”. I.e. we need our choices across entire spectrum. Some of us can’t tolerate certain foods, and that’s not the reason to vilify or victimize.
The way I do it (cast iron pan on the BBQ, screamin’ hot at 700+C) is super delicious. So much so that I think I might fire up a steak this weekend. Gotta check the weather forecast to see if it’s worthwhile.
Reminds me of a recent video by Our Changing Climate about how patriarchy may be driving/energizing the climate crisis. It’s on Nebula or Youtube for anyone who wants to watch.
I’ve discovered TVP recently. Very cheap and dense source of protein. My partner likes to joke that I’m eating dog food, and I’m starting to think that she might be right considering that dog food keeps coming up when I search for TVP.
Interesting, I just searched it and yea the stuff I found does kind of look like dog food lol. I will see if I can find some and try it out. Thanks for the suggestion.
It threatens my options. I don’t believe it’s healthy to rule out 95% of the world’s food options, and that’s the only reason I keep eating meat. If I knew there was great veg food everywhere, it would be easily done and I’d prefer to at least make meat a 3 times a year thing or less.
Edit: I’m really fucking curious. Can someone tell me what there is to downvote here? Are you truly threatened by the idea of not eating meat or what could it possibly be?
there is great veg food all over the place, failure to find is a failure to look
you’re framing the choice as to whether to eat meat as some externally imposed thing when it’s simply not. Choosing from among your options doesn’t ‘threaten’ the options you didn’t choose
your tone is just generally gross and defensive
I’m an omnivore too, but your arguments sound less like you considered the possibilities, rationally thought your way through to the best option then selected it, and more like you picked something and then tried to rationalize your way backward through the arguments to the options.
Edit: oooooh nothing like asking for feedback and then getting pissy when you get it.
Agreed, I also eat meat but I’m not going to frame it like I’m staving off some hardship lol meat is far pricier than 99% of your vegetarian/vegan options. I eat less of it now and skip the cow milk for an alternative and I also don’t feel less masculine for doing so!
The comment, while reasonable, only served to point out issues with the comment. Which doesn’t explain why so many pressed the “this is correct” button.
It seems to be an EU-based study. The design part of the paper doesn't say which nationalities were studied, although maybe they mention it elsewhere in the document. I'd be interested in this because it's very much a cultural thing. There are part of the world where vegetarian food is the norm for both men and women.
Africa … check the rates of heart disease and intestinal problems in most African nations compared to the US and Canada. They may suffer from all kinds of other preventable diseases, malnutrition and violent conflict … but they don’t suffer from over indulgence.
Which populations in Africa? It’s not like everybody’s the same across the continent. Have there been any studies ruling out other health-boosting factors like minimization of ultra-processed food and higher levels of exercise? (Generalizations about Africa tend to draw on stereotypes that are often quite unrealistic.)
Or diabetes and GERD … nothing like frothing at the mouth with a diabetic attack or sleeping with a breathing mask and oxygen to make you look like a man.
I’m not diabetic … but half my family is (and I have a big family) … and I’ve seen my share of out of control diabetics who have full blown attacks because they are so chaotic that they don’t bother monitoring themselves or their disease. I’m Indigenous Canadian from northern Ontario and I have a pretty dysfunctional family … I’ve seen young men in their 20s with out of control diabetes … people in their 30s with blood sugar so freaking high, you wonder why they are still alive … .people in their 40s with amputations due to diabetes … and people dying in their 50s from the disease. It’s terrible. On many occasions I’ve had to call ambulances and take family and friends to emerg because they were helplessly losing control of their mind and bodies due to diabetes … it isn’t pretty and absolutely terrifying.
As to the GERD … that disease affects mostly my affluent friends in cities and towns in the south … I have four friends who are in their 50s who have severe GERD to the point where they can’t breathe at night because the reflux is affecting their esophagus and obstructing their airway … and the only way they can properly breathe at night is with a mask and oxygen.
I’ve been a type 1 diabetic for 12 years and a director at a kids camp for type 1 diabetics for 5 years. There is no such thing as a “diabetic attack”. There is high blood sugar (because diabetics either don’t make or don’t process insulin) and there is low blood sugar (because an insulin dependent diabetic took too much insulin). What you are trying to describe is a diabetic seizure which 99% of the time is an accidental overdose of insulin (low blood sugar).
Now if you’re trying to talk about complications from uncontrolled diabetes from a lifetime of not taking care of it yes that is terrible, but that’s the minority of diabetics and you have to go to pretty extreme lengths of not taking care of it (literally years/decades) to get to that point, so let’s not act like the issue is the diabetes itself.
And even if we ignore all that what the fuck does that have to do with eating meat? Most diabetics prefer a high protein diet because it’s CARBS that raise blood sugar. If you’re argument is meat = fat = overweight then 2 things, overweight doesn’t cause diabetes (it’s a factor for type 2 only), and 2: the issue still isn’t the diabetes, it’s the complete lack of caring for a medical issue.
Ok, real fast a couple of things. Hyperglycemia (that high blood sugar attack) can absolutely cause altered mental status, LOC and even death. It also doesnt take a lifetime to do that much damage. The person doesnt take their medication, eats fast food for all their meals and going to the bathroom is their daily exercise, it can happen as soon as the crow dude states. A vegan diet can be healthy for even a diabetic. Do a low carb high protein vegan diet. Also the carbs in a good vegan diet useally consist of complex carbs and fiber, so a low glycemic index. How do I know this? Heath care provider that is diabetic, vegan and now healthier than I have been since I was a teeny.
Lastly, dont dump on someone for calling it a diabetic attack. Unless they said they’re in healthcare, its fine. Sorry to the Canadian crow guy, its painful to watch family slowly kill themselves.
I never said a vegan diet wasn’t also an option, but out of the hundred diabetics I talk with on a yearly basis many are on a high protein (meat) diet, a handful are vegan. It is absolutely an option but this is still completely irrelevant to the actual post.
I am very familiar with what high blood sugar can cause and never said it couldn’t cause any of the issues you listed, including unconsciousness. I experienced it myself just before getting diagnosed, not a lot of fun. But again claiming meat = diabetes = any of the things you said is wildly misleading and gives people the wrong idea about diabetes. All the issues we’re talking about aren’t because diabetes = problems, they’re because unhealthy lifestyle = problems.
Yea, one thing I feel is that vegans really are letting perfect be the enemy of good. While I do empathise and am eating less meat myself, I feel like screeching on people being omnis is missing the forest for the trees; if most people did like what you mentioned, eating meat once a week, that's 6/7th less animals slaughtered. Along with the reductions in emissions and whatever environmental impact too, of rearing so many animals for their meat.
When I, a man, am eating by myself I include meat sparingly, but when I eat food prepared by the women in my life, meat is front and centre and hard to avoid. I guess that is the threat to masculinity? The “why won’t he eat this perfectly good meal I made for him?”
You want me to lie? I’m not necessarily looking for “planty meals”. I gravitate in that direction when I cook because that’s the kind of food I can make taste good, but that is not necessarily someone else’s skillset. There is nothing wrong with the meat dishes put in front of me. They taste good too.
Look up the history and origin of making gravy and sauces … modern gravies and sauces were started and developed in the Middle Ages for beef and meat dishes to mask the taste of rotten or semi rotten food.
Yes I know there are other sauces and gravies for vegetables … but the little dish of gravy for your roast beef supper was started because someone just wanted their food to taste less like a rotting carcass because they had no refrigeration back then.
Agreed … every time I make steak, or chicken, or turkey, or pork, I always carefully collect the drippings, make a roux and mix my own gravy. I’ve done the same with goose, moose and caribou.
Takes lots of practice but now everyone raves about my gravy … no homo tho.
These studies are made through a lens of "men have frail egos, how else can we frame this viewpoint".
I don't give a fuck about "masculinity" or "femininity". If it's cheap, tastes good, and isn't full of EEEEEEs, I'll buy it. Standard "aubergine", tomatoes, spring onions and whatever aren't tasty without a whole lot of prep. Fuck salads. Give me that cheap, spicy, Indian sauce that I can lather onto sweet potato purree, carrot pasta, and pickled mango... and it costs less than a dish with a fucking steak? Hell yeah I'm buying it! Steak will be what I eat when I go out.
Make another study focusing on pricing and how much money you can save per year eating veggie and I bet my ass it'll have an impact. These stupid "my gender is better than your gender" bullshit doesn't help.
Most modern social “science” papers are just “people I agree with are actually just superior people, and everyone I disagree with is stupid and dumb”, with the most blatant statistics fuckery on earth
Also because it’s still the only way to get enough protein unless you want to drink a bunch of shakes every day. Anyone who has counted calories before can tell you that most men are deficient unless they’re heavy meat eaters.
As a vegetarian for 30 uears and now Vegan for probably 2-3 years, i can attest that your protien statement is false. i have never done protien shakes as a diet supplement. The lentils I buy are 30% protien. Other Beans are good also.
