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queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Unless they start impeaching Justices, he’s completely right. Impeach or shut the fuck up “Progressives”.

kitonthenet ,

With what votes?

queermunist , (edited )
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

If the vote fails (as it likely would) then we can see which politicians are our enemies and need to be replaced. The failed vote could be used as a rallying cry to motivate voters and spark protests and generate momentum for reform.

Without a vote, nothing happens.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org avatar

Without a vote, nothing happens.

Feels like that’s the point.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Exactly! AOC and other so-called Progressives are allowed to speak out against the dominant political line and act like they’re anti-establishment, but they don’t have to actually humiliate any other members of the Party by putting them to a vote.

kitonthenet ,

Ok, how can they call a vote?

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

That’s harder, obviously. They need the Speaker to call for impeachment proceedings, which isn’t happening without drastic measures.

He also is only one man. He has an address. He has friends and family. He has business interests and donors and a whole host of private interests. He has investments and properties and associates.

Those are all legitimate targets. There are millions of people that would move on AOCs command. She could call on all her supporters to make McCarthy’s life a living hell. He’s just one man. He can be defeated by the masses.

kitonthenet ,

While I appreciate your forthrightness about the need to kill the speaker of the house, I don’t think that is going to go over well with the people I’d need it to go over well with

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Woah hold up, I mean his life needs to become a living hell; not literally send him to hell.

CaptObvious ,

Nobody said that, and you know it. Stick to the topic. Your lack of logic and bad faith are showing.

acastcandream ,

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    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Protests can be targeted?

    acastcandream ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    I said we should make his life a living hell! That doesn’t imply I want him dead.

    Okay, so to clarify: I want protesters to surround his house so he can never sleep again. I want them to follow him wherever he goes. I want them to go after his friends and family and business associates and donors. Beyond directly targeting people, there’s also boycotts and strikes which could be used to target his investments. Disruptive and nonviolent direct action would also be part of it.

    Mass mobilization on as many fronts as possible to hurt McCarthy in every way imaginable, but it needs to be a living hell or else he’ll just be replaced with another demon.

    CaptObvious ,

    I’ll have to disagree on going after friends, family, and acquaintances. Go after him, his political funders and handlers, his businesses, and business affiliates if necessary. But leave the innocent bystanders out of it.

    CaptObvious ,

    I don’t think “stochastic” means what you think it means.

    Your deliberate attempt to misconstrue a clear call to nonviolent action into something that you can screech about or even claim as a threat is laughable. Honestly, if this is the best straw man the Right’s geniuses can come up with, it’s no wonder they’ve lost the new culture war.

    acastcandream ,

    I don’t engage with people who equate “disagreement” with “ignorance” simply because they lack the humility/imagination to consider they may be wrong. Have a good one.

    CaptObvious ,

    Friend, if you were simply disagreeing, we might have a conversation. You’re not. You’re deliberately twisting a call for non-violent protest into a conspiracy to murder the Speaker of the House of Representatives. That is not simple disagreement. That is disengenuously creating a strawman in a way meant to frighten the person opposing you into silence. It’s a typical tactic used by those who know they’ve lost the argument but whose egos won’t let them acknowledge it.

    You have a good life, too.

    Lemmylefty ,
    @Lemmylefty@lemmy.world avatar

    There are millions of people that would move on AOCs command.

    I’m sorry what? Agreeing with her, voting for her, campaigning for her: none of that is anything like the coordinated, multi-pronged and likely months long harassment campaign you’re talking about.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Maybe they wouldn’t be willing to physically show up at a sit-in or something, but those people are still willing to participate in smaller ways and that still counts.

    keeb420 ,

    The ones we would think need to be replaced are largely in republican controlled areas. So that would likely gain them support from their base.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    There are millions of people who don’t vote because they believe it doesn’t matter. Reaching them would change everything.

    keeb420 ,

    While I agree on the point that dems should be trying to reach disaffected voters in red states and that these Republicans who would vote against ethics for tc justices should be replaced. I don't see this doing that if they couldn't already with how corrupt the republican party openly is now.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    They don’t care because they see that Democrats aren’t doing anything that matters anyway. Why bother voting for the do-nothing party?

    keeb420 ,

    Dems in the last 3 years have done more than trump and Republicans in 4. If they can't bother to see reality then that's on them.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    No one cares about one do-nothing party doing more than another do-nothing party.

    And you know what? They also did some really bad shit too. Breaking the railroad strike was unforgivable to a lot of voters, me included, because it shows me Democrats are not actually on the side of organized labor. They’re all talk.

    If they can’t bother to see reality then that’s on them.

    Democrats victim blaming the masses is another reason they don’t show up to vote. I voted. My state still went to hell with fascist culture war bullshit and the Democrats didn’t stop it.

    keeb420 ,

    What are democrats supposed to kidnap them and force them to vote? I could agree that dems need to be much better at messaging but they can't force people to pay attention to what's happening.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    I already told you; if the vote fails (as it likely would) then it could be used as a rallying cry to motivate voters and spark protests and generate momentum for reform. People don’t care about voting because Democrats always lose. If AOC told her supporters to make McCarthy’s life a living hell and forced him to hold a vote, nonvoters would see Democrats are willing to play hardball and act!

    keeb420 ,

    If people aren't paying attention to how openly corrupt the republican party as a whole is, this vote won't do much to change that. There's playing hardball and then there's giving your opponents an easy W.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    These people aren’t watching the news. What they need is to see Tiktok videos of people screaming at McCarthy and making him cry.

    But you know what? Let’s say you’re right! Have you really thought about what that means? If America is too divided to impeach corrupt Justices and too divided to oust fascists from the government? If the only solution is to have a filibuster proof supermajority?

    That means America is doomed, nothing will ever get better, and we’ll just circle the drain until we all fucking die. Cool!

    keeb420 ,

    You're just making that realization... we've been in this place since Republicans first blocked trumps impeachment solely on political grounds. Hell at least since Obamas last Supreme Court pick was blocked.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Now you’re contradicting yourself. Is your stance basically “nothing works so we shouldn’t try anything”?

    That just seems like a reason to try everything. No matter how risky, trying is better than not trying because we’re fucked anyway. If America is doomed, then AOC should be using her platform to actually prepare for that instead of wasting time playing House.

    keeb420 ,

    If you can't already hear thomas boasting "I just beat a Democrat led witchhunt..." I don't know what to tell you. And the republican base would eat that up. It's would be a very easy win for Republicans.

    queermunist , (edited )
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Who fucking cares? America is doomed no matter what, it’s an easy win for Republicans no matter what happens.

    They’re going to kill me. I’m trans. Clock is ticking before they either put me in a conversion therapy camp or just take away my access to hormones, but either way I’m fucking dead. What the fuck are Democrats doing about that? NOTHING!

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Which worked so well through TWO failed Trump impeachments…

    Impeachment without removal is pointless. So step 1 HAS to be getting the majority back in the house AND getting a 2/3rds majority in the Senate.

    Once you do that, I’d argue for a new Amendment. Ethics rules + age limits.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    If you haven’t noticed, Trump isn’t President anymore.

    The impeachments galvanized voters. Duh?

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Impeachment had no impact on voters, if anything, quite the opposite, which is why we have a Republican run House of Representatives right now and the balance of power in the Senate hasn’t changed.

    We need a 2/3rds majority in the House and Senate to start making massive changes.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    How can you say impeachment had no impact when Trump literally lost? The fact that the House was lost 2 years after that was because voters saw that Democrats are worthless do-nothing losers that refuse to do anything when they win.

    We need a 2/3rds majority in the House and Senate to start making massive changes.

    If that’s true then I should just kill myself now because it will never happen for the rest of my miserable life

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Because after impeaching him the House immediately flipped? Ya think? Impeachment was well recieved in the bubble, not so much outside the bubble.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    After impeaching him Democrats took control of the House, Senate, and the Presidency.

    It was 2 years after that that the House flipped, and even then Republicans still failed to take back the Senate and under-performed all expectations.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Trumps 2nd impeachment was January 13th, 2021.

    The next election was 2022 and the House flipped. Literally flipped, 222 Democrats in the 117th Congress to 222 Republicans in the 118th.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    I’m sure the parade of Democrat failures that happened over the next 20 fucking months had nothing to do with it!

    Nope, just that one thing. No other possible reasons people would be less enthusiastic for Democrats.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    One thing can have power. 2024 will see it flip the other way because of abortion. People don’t forget this shit.

    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    Pitchforks?

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org avatar

    Agreed.

    You can say whatever you want for publicity when you know you won’t lift a finger to make any of it happen.

    keeb420 ,

    What more could aoc do here? She can't force a vote on it. And even if she could it'd be shot down with the current congress.

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org avatar

    This is my favorite thing about the modern Democratic Party: the intense desire to get credit for excuses.

    keeb420 ,

    It's not an excuse when it's describing the reality of the situation. Dems can't call a vote here and if they could somehow force a vote it would get voted down just by numbers. Republicans don't care they are openly corrupt.

    spider ,

    Impeach or shut the fuck up “Progressives”.

    At least they could use it to fundraise, right?

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    Impeachment starts in the House, which is currently run by Republicans. So that’s a non-starter unless you want to impeach Kagan, Sotomayor or Brown-Jackson.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Impeachment is solely at the discretion of McCarthy. The rest of the House doesn’t matter.

    And he’s just one man.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    You need a majority vote in the house and the Republican majority will NEVER vote to impeach a Republican Supreme Court justice when there’s a Democratic President. Will never happen.

    This is the same political body who needed 15 votes to decide who their own leader was.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    I’m pretty sure impeachment proceedings can just be started by McCarthy whenever he wants.

    Removal requires a majority so that won’t happen, but impeachment matters. Do you think Trump lost for no reason?

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    House leadership doesn’t do anything without knowing the votes are there first and they are absolutely not there.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    McCarthy can be made to do anything with enough mass mobilization against him.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    The problem is any mass mobilization against him will come from those further Right, not Left.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Only because none of the Left’s political leadership is willing to actually mobilize the masses!

    Which is what I’ve been calling for this whole thread!

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    In the House, the Left is in the minority, the entire Democratic body could mobilize against McCarthy and he wouldn’t give two shits, because as far as he’s concerned, they’re already against him. They’re the minority, he doesn’t have to care.

    CaptObvious ,

    Didn’t his own right wing force him to allow any single representative to essentially call a no-confidence vote?

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