Young voters explain why they’re bailing on Biden, and whether they’d come back ( www.nbcnews.com )

queermunist , 6 months ago

I voted for Biden to stop fascism and now he’s supporting genocide.

MotoAsh , 6 months ago

So you’re just going to vote for open fascism this time? Only an evil person votes for the greater evil or allows a greater evil to win.

KingThrillgore OP , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

I dunno man, its either Light Fascism or The End of the USA. It’s a hard call only negated (to me) by being in a fucking red state.

If Biden got Primaried he absolutely would lose.

BraveSirZaphod , 6 months ago

If Biden got Primaried he absolutely would lose.

I'm sure you have strong evidence of this, with how confident you are?

Semi-Hemi-Demigod , 6 months ago

If Biden got Primaried he absolutely would lose.

You have a lot more faith in voters than I do. If Biden got primaried we'd get the same milquetoast liberal we've always gotten.

AngrilyEatingMuffins , 6 months ago

He’d be younger, at least, as it would almost certainly be Newsom.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod , 6 months ago

I don't see how he'd be that different from Biden, but he'd be nicer to look at.

AngrilyEatingMuffins , 6 months ago

He’s not anti-abortion, for one

Bipta , 6 months ago

He is getting primaried, technically speaking.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

You mean like when he won the primary against Bernie, even though Bernie was actually more popular? The primary is only part of the picture–the other is the party apparatchik that gets its pick no matter what.

PowerCrazy , 6 months ago

Why is the end of a fascist state a “hard call?”

Klear , 6 months ago

End of USA as a non-fascist state is what they meant.

TheAlbatross , 6 months ago

I don’t think they said anything about who they’re voting for in 2024, you’re just being an ass.

Plus, their vote only matters if they live in a purple state, otherwise the backwards way the US conducts elections means their vote is worthless.

I live in a blue state. I could vote for Trump and rest assured it doesn’t even matter. I could vote for Mickey Mouse, it doesn’t matter, the state electorate goes Blue. In a way, this makes me lucky, because I don’t have to vote for the sack of worthless crap Biden is.

pimento64 , 6 months ago

Defeatists like you belong on a cross

Tremble , 6 months ago

You sound worse than the facists you accuse others of voting for

pimento64 , 6 months ago

To you. Probably because you’re simpleton.

AngrilyEatingMuffins , 6 months ago

I mean you’re talking about crucifying your political opponents, chud

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Have no idea what was said because mod removed it. My experience is that a lot of people are reactionaries who only understand part of any given problem. They get into a huff because they make this ignorance part of their identity.

MotoAsh , 6 months ago

If you think presidential elections are the ones that matter for an individual to take part in, you’re already disenfranchising yourself better than any gaslighting about Democrats could ever.

Joe’s not good, but not voting for him IS a vote for fascism. Period. Republicans don’t need good opposition to never the less be completely undeserving. Since we LITERALLY CANNOT pick outside of the two choices, you literally have a forced choice between fascism and shitty Democrats.

TheAlbatross , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

Buddy, at a presidential level, it doesn’t matter if an individual votes red or blue in VT. It goes Blue. Their impact is utterly irrelevant.

And the DNC will never run a decent candidate with any intent to make fundamental changes to benefit the common person because they can always fall back on the kind of thinking you’re showing here to ensure nothing will change. And they have no motivation to, either. They maintain power just fine by doing the bare minimum of not being quite as repugnant as the Republicans, while still being utter bastards.

Anyway, this kind of attitude is exactly what makes the vote blue no matter who people insufferable fools. Neither I nor the first person you replied to said anything about who their voting for, they simply expressed displeasure with utter dogshit choices we have. And yet you lept on them to call em a fascist for not liking Biden.

Another person in this thread said I should be literally crucified for not liking Biden.

It’s hard to understand why some people might be turned off by that kind of thinking, isn’t it?

frauddogg , 6 months ago

It’s hard to understand why some people might be turned off by that kind of thinking, isn’t it?

Honestly it’s giving the same cultist energy that red MAGAts fling around. We were never kidding when we started throwing around BlueMAGA as a perjorative.

queermunist , 6 months ago

No, I’m voting for Hillary Clinton. It’s still her turn!

MedicPigBabySaver , 6 months ago

You’re a moron.

queermunist , 6 months ago

How many thousands of Palestinian children do our bombs have to murder before you reconsider voting for genocide?

squiblet , 6 months ago

Getting Trump elected will make it worse. There’s no way in hell republicans would have a better policy on Palestine.

queermunist , 6 months ago

Trump is also extremely stupid. A better policy on Palestine is one that fails, and Trump is more likely to fuck this up.

squiblet , 6 months ago

I don't understand what you're proposing Trump would do that would fail. Giving Israel more money, weapons and the go-ahead to 100% kill everyone (which is NOT what the Biden admin has done) or shelling Gaza from boats and bombing them ourselves has nothing to do with Trump personally being intelligent. In fact, it's what he would surely do since he's a moron.

queermunist , 6 months ago

Biden is playing a delicate game where he supports Israel without provoking all of the other countries in that region or alienating allies.

Trump wouldn’t give a shit. That could be disastrous for Israel, because contrary to the propaganda they aren’t actually strong enough to fight everyone everywhere all at once. Not even with Trump’s help. Also, he’s just as likely to get bored or give up on Israel when things get difficult.

squiblet , 6 months ago

Well, I think avoiding widespread war in the ME is best for everyone. Trump would have the US do whatever Putin tells him, which would be whatever is the worst for NATO and the best for Russia, with no regard to what's best for the region, world or Palestinians.

MedicPigBabySaver , 6 months ago

You really are an idiot.

ZombieTheZombieCat , 6 months ago

This is so stupid.

Bipta , 6 months ago

This is a horrifying viewpoint which is effectively pro-genocide. More genocide, and faster too.

Poggervania , 6 months ago

So better to vote in the guy who will make the US fascist, make it worse for its citizens, and most likely bully and potentially cause more death with its huge army in order to possibly maybe potentially help another country by fucking up?

Even if you’re not a US citizen, that’s some insane mental gymnastics to do in order to somehow be braindead about this genocide being Biden’s fault and try to frame it as if nobody else would or could have let this go as far as it has if they were the US President. And if you are a US citizen living in the US, you do realize you would be living in a Trump-run America? Legitimately, are you okay with actually making another country’s situation maybe slightly better at the expense of your own living conditions??

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Why do you want Trump to win? Because that’s what you are arguing for here.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago

This is honestly pretty funny. IDK if you’re trolling with your other messages or not but this one is funny.

PowerCrazy , 6 months ago

This is the ultimate troll against liberals and I’m here for it.

Omega_Haxors , 6 months ago

Lets fucking Pokemon gooo to the polllllsss!!

frauddogg , 6 months ago

“There’s a terrible danger in voting for the lesser of two evils because the parties can set it up that way.” – Hunter S. Thompson

Evil is evil, whether ‘lesser’ or ‘greater’-- and right now? Your guy’s looking to be an equivalent evil to Trump.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago

You are, of course, free not to vote for him. If you really are a queer communist though, then good fuckin’ luck with what’s in store for you 2024-2028 if Trump wins.

queermunist , 6 months ago

What about what’s in store for me if Trump loses? The rightwing still control the Supreme Court and can still win a majority in Congress and will still control my state on all three levels of government. Biden isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. That would violate the norms!

Meanwhile, he’s supporting an ongoing genocide!

If I wanted to cast a vote that would matter in 2024 I’d cast a 9mm ballot with my temple as the ballot box.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago

“What about what’s in store for me if Hitler loses? The Nazis still control Brest, Lwow, and Kaunas, and Churchill isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. Meanwhile, he’s an open racist who supports atrocities in the colonies.”

Like I say: Good luck.

queermunist , 6 months ago

Biden is supporting genocide! No matter who I vote for, Hitler wins.

This isn’t fascism vs social democracy. This is Hitler Lite vs Hitler Delux.

squiblet , 6 months ago

Such a clueless take when Trump is calling for genocide IN THE US.

queermunist , 6 months ago

I will not vote for the lesser of two genocides.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago

Why the fuck not?

queermunist , 6 months ago

When you vote for the lesser of two genocides, you are voting for genocide. You can’t escape that.

squiblet , 6 months ago

It's a rational decision. Voting against Biden (and discouraging people about Biden online constantly) helps get Trump elected, which means you're voting for 2 genocides since Trump is clearly planning to greatly harm Central and Southern Americans in the US.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

Trump is clearly planning to greatly harm Central and Southern Americans in the US

And Palestinians (he was the one that moved the embassy to Jerusalem, remember)

And US journalists who report on corruption in Saudi Arabia

And Ukrainians

And anyone in government who won’t support his crimes

And ordinary-person election workers who won’t support his crimes

And via his supporters, literally anyone in or out of government who actively opposes his crimes, with a pretty broad definition of “opposes”

And women who have medical problems during a pregnancy

And I’m sure lots of other people who don’t spring to mind right at the moment. But surely that should be enough of a list. 2 Gaza-size genocides as the final outcome of a second Trump term would mean we got very very lucky.

squiblet , 6 months ago

Good point, Trump taking office would also mean destruction for Ukraine. And of course he has broadly threatened millions of American citizens too.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

You sound like someone who is hungry but won’t take my food because they want better food.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago

More accurately, someone who doesn’t want other hungry people (in addition to herself) to have any food because she wants better food.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

I like that, the double whammy of selfishness.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago

Yes, I do understand your argument. You don’t need to repeat it. I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.

I know two separate people whose life situations changed dramatically because of Obama-era immigration policies. If they were hostile to Obama because of drone strikes and warrantless wiretapping, I’d point out to them that yes, fair enough, but they could also be deported right now from a Bush or Romney America if things had gone a little differently. And Trump is much, much worse than Bush or Romney. He’s dangerous to people who aren’t even queer or communist.

I think you’re being similarly foolish and contrarian about it. But of course you’re free to think whatever you want, I won’t keep going back and forth with you about it.

queermunist , 6 months ago

I won’t vote for genocide just to protect myself.

At some point you have to find something that you value more than your own individual safety.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago

Ah yes, all those people who will be safer under a Trump presidency. I forgot about them. How careless of me.

queermunist , 6 months ago

The genocide in Gaza is going to continue regardless of which candidate wins. I understand that.

But if I vote for Biden, I am voting for genocide. I won’t do that just because it might be personally better for me if Biden wins.

(might be personally better for me - who fucking knows what the Supreme Court might decide in the next 4 years)

mo_ztt , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

Are you under the impression that Trump doesn’t support this type of genocide in a much bigger way than Biden? Or that it’s uncertain whether life will be better for you under Biden than under a second Trump term? If so, I think we’ve hit the root of our disagreement.

Trump already ran concentration camps within the United States during his first term, and he’s already pledged to root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country.

That’s you. He means you. And he’s literally dead serious about it, and he and his cohort have a detailed plan for how to get it done. I’m not by any means saying that you should vote for Biden only for your own safety as some sort of selfish gesture and betray all these people who would somehow be safer under Trump. I’m saying that not voting for Biden endangers quite a lot of people’s safety, inside and outside the US, but yes, also very specifically yours.

queermunist , 6 months ago

Trump already ran concentration camps within the United States during his first term,

Yes, and Biden is still running those concentration camps! The number of immigrants jailed by ICE has increased 70 percent since the start of the Biden administration. Nothing fundamentally changed, just like he promised.

That’s you. He means you.

Yup. Do you think I’m selfish enough to vote for genocide just because Biden’s genocide doesn’t target people like me?

I will not vote for genocide. This is not some radical stance, it’s the bare fucking minimum. And you know what? My hope is, by pressuring Biden’s campaign on this issue, Biden could reconsider his stance on Gaza to get reelected. That’s how politics works!

And if he refuses to reconsider, even at the cost of his own reelection, then I have zero confidence he’d protect me in his next four years anyway. Why should he? When my state starts rounding up people on HRT into conversion therapy concentration camps, Biden can do literally nothing about it and you’ll still vote for his successor anyway because she’s the lesser evil.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

Yes, and Biden is still running those concentration camps!

Do you think I’m selfish enough to vote for genocide just because Biden’s genocide doesn’t target people like me?

I think you’re being incredibly selfish. I was friends with a guy who, if the timing had been different, could have literally been one of those kids in cages on the southern border. In addition to support for all kinds of anti-Islamic, anti-queer, and anti-immigrant policies which produced real harm in the real world, Trump started the family separation policy. Biden ended it, and on February 2nd 2021 he created a task force to try to find children who’d been separated from their parents and reunite them. Are you really trying to say that because ICE is still operating and still runs detention centers, “nothing fundamentally changed”?

I will not vote for genocide. This is not some radical stance, it’s the bare fucking minimum. And you know what? My hope is, by pressuring Biden’s campaign on this issue, Biden could reconsider his stance on Gaza to get reelected. That’s how politics works!

Yeah, I get this. I’m not trying to say that Biden should get a free pass on anything he wants to do. I’m saying there’s a concerted propaganda effort afoot at the moment to try to come up with reasons for people not to vote for Biden, when Trump is the end of the fuckin’ world. It’s like if your house is burning down and you’re running around trying to save the artwork instead of the children.

Are you genuinely trying to work for justice with all these things you’re saying? Or just making a theatrical stand for the people in Gaza who’ve been dying by the thousands all through the Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations, while nothing fundamentally changed? (edit: … while ignoring the cost side of the equation of what you’re saying, in the real world, for every single other marginalized or vulnerable person who isn’t in Gaza?)

squiblet , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

Plus Trump has been threatening (promising, from the POV of his fascist supporters) even worse action against immigrants for a while now.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago

Yeah. The consequences we’re seeing for pregnant women now, all the people who died of COVID who didn’t need to, and all those little Hispanic kids, all add up to absolutely nothing compared with what he wants to do in a second term.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.

And your argument seems to be that you shouldn’t participate unless at least one truly perfect candidate is available. But not participating means that the worse of the two evils wins. So you’re, unironically, hostile to your own individual safety.

mo_ztt , 6 months ago

Nope, my argument is the reverse of that. I’m saying we should vote for Biden if the only other possible outcome is Trump.

Omega_Haxors , 6 months ago

Liberals: “You need to vote for Biden or Trump will kill all the gay communists”

Gay communists: “Don’t vote for genocide Joe, it’s the minimum I expect of you”

Liberals: “I don’t care. If Biden loses I’m not going to be able to go back to brunch”

Eldritch , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

Trump would gladly send troops over to assist in the genocide. Biden is doing too little to address it and being too supportive of it. There’s a massive difference. It’s going to happen regardless of which of them wins. It will be better under Biden 100%. To claim otherwise would be feigning accelerationism. Hoping to get millions more killed so that something might change here at home.

queermunist , 6 months ago

If we’re at the point where we’re playing an ethics logic puzzle between different levels of genocide then it’s time to do something different!

If you vote for Biden, you are voting for genocide. You are endorsing children being blown apart and buried under rubble. You are endorsing doctors and nurses and journalists being sniped and bombed. You are endorsing the use of starvation as a weapon. You are sending a message to the government that you want genocide and you will support more genocide, and that’s exactly what you’ll get under Biden.

America is an abomination. At this point you don’t even get to vote for the lesser of two evils. You just vote for different branding.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod , 6 months ago

America is an abomination.

Always has been.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Functioning as designed.

Eldritch , 6 months ago

Cringing as I quote a fictitious asshole who has a point. “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”

Your criticisms are hollow. ML kvetching over Biden’s shit take. Calling him a monster for saying the wrong thing over something he really couldn’t impact much personally. While hand waving away the millions oppressed and slaughtered by ML governments. It’s hypocritical.

There’s almost no nation in the world that isn’t an abomination. Especially the biggest ones. China, India, Russia and yes the US are all abominations.

Everyone needs better. And yeah Biden is definitely flawed. Despite being one of the best presidents the US has had in nearly 40 years. Ironically you of all people should appreciate that he singularly is one of the biggest reasons we have marriage equality. His administrations NLRB decisions truly a sea change. Pushed to invest in national infrastructure that everyone needs in a scale not really seen since the new deal. But yeah, old man tone deaf, gotta go.

It’s honestly too late right now to start pushing for better this cycle. They are seriously ready to put in place a fascist dictator. I know ML are 100% on board with dictators. But I think you would be concerned by the fascism part. Right now we need to survive and hold on to any type of democracy or republic we can. After 2024 we can focus on better younger Democrat candidates for 2028. But we have to remember good change comes incrementally and slowly with compromise.

And don’t get me wrong. I’m open to any ideas for positive change you have that don’t involve magical thinking. Such as what if everyone did the thing that everyone doesn’t do. Or the typical conflict resolution ML employ. You get a gulag and you get a gulag disappearing and re-education for you and for you as well! Yadda yadda.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Liked your comment. What is “ML”, though?

Eldritch , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

Marxist Leninist. Most of those we mistakenly call Communist simply because Lenin and co chose it as the name for their authoritarian party. They realistically reject a lot of the basis of communism. And similarly, Marxist leninists reject a good chunk of the philosophy of Karl Marx. Misinterpreting the intellectual philosophical statement of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Something which on it’s face is contradictory and oxymoronic. As being a literal commandment to them. From a man who knew all too well the problems of actual dictatorial power and had spent most of his life fleeing from country to country trying to avoid it. Marxist Leninist are to Marxism what evangelicals today are to Christianity.

I can’t think right now of the actual country the .ML domain refers to. But Lemmy.ML and Lemmygrad.ML both use it as a reference to that ideology.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

OH lol I am actually on the ML lemmy too and didn’t realize what it was. Thanks for the education.

Eldritch , 6 months ago

No worries. There are a lot who are who don’t share the ideology. It’s one of the oldest servers after all. And for a long time was also one of the more default servers. The original and still main coders IIRC behind Lemmy also share the ideology. Starting the project after largely being run off of reddit.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

I’m all about it, but it also explains why I have seen so many references.

Omega_Haxors , 6 months ago

Marxist leninists reject a good chunk of the philosophy of Karl Marx.

Because Marx is a racist antisemite whose writing is dripping with speciesism. He was right about one thing and that was his economics, I severely distrust anyone who listens to him for anything other than that, especially not when there’s a treasure trove of other writings.

Really if they called themselves what they are (Scientific Socialists) they would be way more popular among the average American. The reason they don’t is because of the nostalgia of MLs turning one of the biggest shithole countries into a global superpower overnight.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

you are voting for genocide

And if you don’t vote for Biden, then you are voting for children in cages and people being pushed under buoys in rivers as they try to escape whatever hellhole they left.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Meanwhile, he’s supporting an ongoing genocide!

LOL you’re delusional. Biden is provided typical support for the country in the way of supplies and money. Trump would send the actual US military over.

Now tell me, which is worse?

Omega_Haxors , 6 months ago

I want to cast a 9mm ballot every single time there’s an election and all the “left” party wants you to do is vote in their fascist.

Nakoichi , 6 months ago

And continuing Trump’s immigration policy, crushing unions, building the border wall, etc.

Remember folks this is what he promised us. Nothing has fundamentally changed.

LemmyHead , 6 months ago

Crushing unions? Didn’t he personally go to a union strike before to show his support?

Nakoichi , 6 months ago

See this is the problem with liberals. They care more about symbolic support and ignore actual material reality.

reuters.com/…/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-…

LemmyHead , 6 months ago

That’s some first class segregation politics behavior you’re showing there. It’s hard to take you serious from now on.

ShimmeringKoi , 6 months ago

What the fuck are you talking about? You claimed the photo op he did was better than actual support, you were shown how it absolutely wasn’t, and now you’re calling someone a segregationist for…not wanting to vote for a segregationist? Absolute bird brain. No, actually my beautiful bird is much smarter than that.

Alaskaball , 6 months ago

first class segregation politics behavior you’re showing there.

jesse-wtf

who the fuck even says this? touch-grass

LemmyHead , 6 months ago

Someone that just asked a simple question with the intention of being educated, and not to be immediately pushed into some political group the poster looks down on, and where the intention was nothing more but: you bad, we good. That’s just completely ridiculous, without knowing anything about a) my intention and b) my background.

I did appreciate the link that was mentioned

Nakoichi , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

you fuckin called me a segregationist for showing you a link from Biden literally shutting down a strike. Please fuck all the way off.

Biden was literally pro segregation.

Also the link that you “appreciate” contradicts everything you said.

Again and I will continue to repeat this: Go. Fuck. Yourself.

Edit: sorry mods, I can’t be civil with someone trying to gaslight me.

LemmyHead , 6 months ago

“See this is the problem with liberals…” Doesn’t sound like a first reply from a civil person, to just a simple question I asked, which I asked due to my limited knowledge about current American politics. So you already lost it there.

I didn’t call you a segregationist because of your link. You’re twisting my words in every reply you make. If people like you dominate the political discussions in your country, then I can say for sure that your country has gone down the drain, because all levels of civil conversation have disappeared if you immediately get pushed a label onto you, where the intention is to demonize the person or a group of persons, and any other continuation of the conversation ends in more demonizing and insults. For sure, this is regardless of who’s in power or whether I’m a liberal, left or right. (For the record, I’m consistently more of a centrist in European political terms)

By the way, your insults don’t mean anything to me. They just read like words coming from a frustrated nobody. I clarified myself because I noticed I’m getting mostly downvotes for some posts, and in that way it appears that your hate speech is becoming the truth for some. So I took the liberty to clarify myself and hopefully get around your bullshit.

Anyways, I hope you have a good day and you become happier in life.

Nakoichi , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

who the fuck even says this?

fedposting

Also funny they said “first class” when they clearly have zero class analysis.

frauddogg , 6 months ago

I’ve got a good goddamn guess; it’s eight letters long, starts with a ‘C’, and ends with an ‘rs’.

Nakoichi , 6 months ago

This is some first class fed posting. Kindly go fuck yourself.

TC_209 , 6 months ago

Your toxic Biden Bro behavior is going to put Trump in the White House (again).

TheLepidopterists , 6 months ago

You’re supporting an actual segregationist who broke a huge strike and calling people who don’t think he’s pro union “segregationists?”

Do you realize how absurd you sound?

Bipta , 6 months ago

You're right, but if you think Trump would support genocide less, you're wrong. Trump lives to embrace genocide.

RedWizard , 6 months ago

Joe “I’m a Zionist” Biden lives for it too. He’s the crypto facist.

Poggervania , 6 months ago

As much as I actually hate to say this because it's the reality of the US, the support of Israel genociding the Hamas would've happened regardless of whomever was President. The US has given a ton of support to Israel in the past and we're considered good allies with them, so we would have probably let the genocide slide no matter what.

Do you think Trump wouldn't be for this or something? Or Hillary? Don't go all "gEnOcIdEr JoE" because you think this would've only happened with Biden - this would've happened because we are America.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

You put down half a thought. So what are you going to do, vote for an actual fascist or not vote so that an actual fascist wins?

huf , 6 months ago

biden is an actual fascist

comrade_pibb , 6 months ago

fucking libs

Assian_Candor , 6 months ago

I’m going to write in Hillary it’s her turn

TC_209 , 6 months ago

I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

LOL what a narcissist.

frauddogg , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

What’s the matter, peckerwood; don’t like you guys’s favorite thought-terminators getting flippantly flung back in your face? Gee, who’d have fucking thought?

Understand, if the choice is between genocidal crypto-fascism and genocidal fascism-obvious, I have no issue with watching your country die instead. Better we go out than the whole rest of the world under our boot. I would rather die, and I would rather we as a collective fell, than ever support another fascist for any fucking reason.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

I don’t tend to let people insult me then attempt to influence me. Learn a little about the art of persuasion and try again. Also, get a grip. This isn’t Facebook or Reddit. Try not to act like those people.

Maaj , 6 months ago

Was it the term “peckerwood” that you found insulting? Would being referred to as “crackkker” hurt your feewings as much?

TC_209 , 6 months ago

As a proud Biden supporter, I know two things: 1. 2024 is the most important election of our lives and we must do anything and everything to maximize the voter turnout for Biden, even If it means reaching out to our political enemies and making unsavory compromises; and 2. If you don’t immediately agree to vote for Biden then you’re just a fucking [slur, slur, slur] and I’m going to go out of my way to antagonize and alienate you and anyone else who may be reading these threads – that’s called the art of persuasion!

frauddogg , 6 months ago

2024 is the most important election of our lives and we must do anything and everything to maximize the voter turnout for Biden, even If it means reaching out to our political enemies and making unsavory compromises;

Just like 2020, 2016, 2012, 2008, and 2004 before it

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Yes. Why are you acting like a Republican?

autismdragon , 6 months ago

Conservatism isnt “when you are rude”.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

You can’t be conservative and a decent person at three same time. Also glad you realized you were rude.

TC_209 , 6 months ago

You have zero self-awareness.

frauddogg , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

Like narc-jacketing isn’t a tried and true tactic of redditors. Like this “vote blue no matter who” horseshit you peddle wasn’t hand-crafted by OccupyDemocrats eight years ago. If you don’t sit your hypocritical ass down and get out of my inbox with your settler peckerwoodery… See, you liberal invertebrates miss this little point every single fucking time. You come to people who have NO INTEREST in backing your genocidal-assed party, or even your genocidal-assed nation, really; and then Demand our support. It’s you who owes the ‘persuasion’ in the first place.

And you are failing. Fascism comes to y’alls cute little gated neighborhoods because of you and Everyone who acts like you. I hope I live long enough to watch the settler house of cards collapse on itself. I wonder if you’re even aware enough to realize how hard of a non-starter supporting your party became with the GENOCIDE that Joe decided to full-throatedly back. Like… Do you realize what I see supporting your party as equivalent to anymore with that? Do you even want to know?

ShimmeringKoi , 6 months ago

Shut the fuck up loser

GarbageShoot , 6 months ago

This isn’t Facebook or Reddit

Your instance is full of ledditors, where do you get off saying this?

frauddogg , 6 months ago

Unearned and unjustified superiority, just like the rest of the settler trash in their party afaic

determinism2 , 6 months ago

Bullying works.

Kuori , 6 months ago

lmao you’re doing the civility lib bit

Omega_Haxors , 6 months ago

Lemmy needs to allow you to highlight posts made from an account because everything you say is a certified banger.

TC_209 , 6 months ago

You’re laughing. You’re a pawn of Trump and Putin and you’re laughing.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

By voting for Biden I’m a tool of Trump and Putin. Riiiiight.

TC_209 , 6 months ago

I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Copy pasta. Got it, you’re a troll and are now blocked.

TC_209 , 6 months ago

I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.

nohaybanda , 6 months ago

Hes fired

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

wonder-who-thats-for

Kuori , 6 months ago

they’re making fun of civility libs who pulled that shit on leftists.

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

michael-laugh chefs-kiss

The_Sasswagon , 6 months ago

Dunno, it’s a year away, why call my shot now when I don’t have all the information yet? But if I voted today and it was Biden v Trump and no competitive 3rd party, it would be an easy blank on the presidential section.

But that’s a hypothetical, we’ll see if Biden aligns more with me in voting day, I can only assume he will double down on trying to seduce disenfranchised Republicans so I’m not hopeful.

RedWizard , 6 months ago

They’re both fascists dippy.

BoxedFenders , 6 months ago

Keep “Voting Blue No Matter Who” and watch as every promise they ran on vanish without a fight because YOU have taken away any incentive to.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Here’s the thing. There’s a big brigade thing going on right now where I’m apparently the worst human who’s ever lived for asking a question. But, one thing that nobody seems to be able to do is tell me what the alternative is to voting Biden. Nobody can answer that question–it’s just “you’re stupid because Biden” and that’s the end of it. So, I’m really asking–what is the proposed alternative action?

voight , 6 months ago

You’re not being brigaded, I literally browse All Comments & All Posts (I have blocked a lot of communities). I don’t have any games on my phone I like to post in random comments sections/replies all over the internet and read a lot.

Choosing to vote for, campaign for, run candidates within, or form a political coalition with a party, those are all things you have to weigh differently. Walking away from a party is a valid move. Half of the country doesn’t vote for either candidate. Why try to work with people who oppose your political goals on every level and will never give you access to the donor warchest even if you win a primary?

Why vote for someone who paints a target on minorities and anyone to the left of Adolf Hitler? This is my hottest take.

Some people argue you should vote for Trump because he’s an isolationist or something, but that’s complete nonsense, he’s the one who murdered Gen Soleimani

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

I still don’t get what you really want to argue for, though. Is it just to not participate until better candidates come around?

And, having in excess of 15 comments insulting my person in one thread is being brigaded.

voight , 6 months ago

I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think the race for president is an important place to invest political energy, of which I have a finite amount. Local agitation & elections are more flexible honestly. Stop a city council from destroying some ecosystem further. Elect a lady who hates Jeff Bezos (idk if this made any difference but it took little energy to do my part).

I don’t think I actually care who wins ❓ they subsequently either ride the wave of shit, or they wipe out. Regardless of what people think the kinder Zionist Sen. Sanders would have accomplished in the general election (when the dems would have assuredly pulled funding), being in the Oval Office itself would be a completely different story. Nixon wasn’t enough of a ghoul for Washington half of the time, mein gott.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Thanks, that take makes sense. Now I wonder if that is the base from which many are operating?

voight , 6 months ago

To expand on my seething hot take here the use of LGBTQ+ people & symbols as imperialist mascots by the United States, Europeans, and Israel is an international disaster. Similar to the way Zionists abuse conscientious Jews with their rhetoric

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

This is why I don’t participate in Pride. It’s all corporate bullshit.

ShimmeringKoi , 6 months ago

If you want an actual answer, the most peaceful possible solution at this juncture is communist revolution.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Sadly, the moment people try, it’s no longer communism. The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

Sadly, the moment people try, it’s no longer communism

jesse-wtf

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

I’ll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn’t really a communist revolution, but rather a group responsible for regime change using the term as they appoint a new elite.

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

That’s not true, and it shows that you obviously haven’t investigated those revolutions or the theory behind them.

The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.

Yes. This issue is dealt with through communist theory. A revolution is a process. It doesn’t end at a “change of regime.”

Its true that class and money are not immediately abolished, because they can’t be immediately abolished. The abolition of class and momey is a theoretical endpoint of a long period of transition because

The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.

More or less as you put it.

You are saying that because the process isn’t automatic, and people now do not already see the world that way, that the process should never begin

You should investigate the actual revolutions you’re talking about, and read some of the basic theories behind them. If you are still against them, then at lesst you will actually know what you’re talking about, and your critiques would be worth hearing

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

You are saying that because the process isn’t automatic, and people now do not already see the world that way, that the process should never begin

No, I’m saying that it hasn’t happened yet because humans as a whole aren’t ready for it. Maybe in 150-200 years we’ll be in a different place. Remember that when people said “Please wear a mask, my grandmother has cancer” about 50% of the populace yelled “FUCK YOUR GRANDMOTHER MY LIBERTIES ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT MATTER.” With people like that, you can’t really have communism.

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

No, I’m saying that it hasn’t happened yet because humans as a whole aren’t ready for it.

Which is what you’re wrong about, because there are nations right now engaged in revolution. The largest nation in earth is currently involved in the most successful revolutionary project yet, which began back in 1949.

You’re not wrong that the revolutionary potential in the imperial core is low for a number of factors. But that’s not the world.

You also said

each time it has been attempted it wasn’t really a communist revolution

Which is not true and was more what i was talking about.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

I guess I’m saying that Lenin, Mao, and Castro were after the power grab and dressed it up in the clothing of communism.

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

I already knew you were saying that. You’re wrong. If you want to talk about communism, you should investigate it first because you don’t know what you’re talking about

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Such a missed opportunity. You could have used the chance to persuade me but instead decided to go ad hominem and make it personal.

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

michael-laugh theres no personal attack in anything i said. You just don’t know what you’re talking about in terms of any of thise revolutions. Seems like you don’t even know what the internets favorite logic nerd term means either

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

“You just don’t know what you’re talking about…”

That’s the part that makes it personal. Notable that you’ve still offered nothing in the way of your perceived correction. It stops at “you’re wrong” as if that were how conversations operate. If you believe I’m wrong, why not try to convince me?

corgiwithalaptop , 6 months ago

debate-me-debate-me

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

Shapiro voice: You replied with a picture. That’s not how conversations work. If you believe you are right, why not try to convince me instead?

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago (edited 6 months ago)

“You just don’t know what you’re talking about…”

That’s the part that makes it personal.

That’s not a personal attack. A personal attack would be saying your a dumb reddit-brained smuglord. And an ad hominem would be saying you’re wrong because youre a dumb reddit-brained smuglord.

I didnt stop at saying your wrong. I said you should investigate the people and revolutions you’re talking about, because if you did investigate you would know you’re wrong. That’s why i said you don’t know what you’re talking about, because no one could have actually read about the 1917 revolution, the Chinese Revolution, or the Cuban revolution and think that they are not communist revolutions, or just “dressed up in the clothes of communism”

If you believe I’m wrong, why not try to convince me?

If you believe you’re right, why aren’t you trying to convincing me? michael-laugh

You’re the one who made an assertion that is obvioulsy untrue to anyone who knows about those subjects. You made these obviously false assertions without any evidence whatsoever, but somehow the burden of proof for what you said is on me.

manuallybreathing , 6 months ago

Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung OPPOSE BOOK WORSHIP

May 1930 I. NO INVESTIGATION, NO RIGHT TO SPEAK

Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn’t that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?

It won’ t do!

It won’t do!

You must investigate!

You must not talk nonsense!

www.marxists.org/reference/…/mswv6_11.htm

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

mao-wave

GinAndJuche , 6 months ago

No investigation, no right to speak. Do some self-crit + reading or shut the fuck up.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

Nah. This is a circle jerk. I say a thing and then the reactionaries descend to tell me that I’m wrong. Yet nobody has anything to offer beyond “you’re stupid”.

GinAndJuche , 6 months ago

A group of better educated people are telling me I’m wrong, clearly they are just reactionaries.

What a beautiful mind you possess.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

What are you doing to educate me? What have I learned here other than that a difference in thought offends you?

GinAndJuche , 6 months ago

I’m not trying to, the only thing that can make a person learn is if they actually want to. No point in leading a horse to water.

In the mean time I’ll have some fun.

stolid_agnostic , 6 months ago

The fun for you really is the ability to tell others they are wrong. Then you’re not willing to help others learn things you think should. You must be great at parties.

I’m out.

GinAndJuche , 6 months ago

byyeeeeeee

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/dab626a7-5814-4840-bc38-c2ac342afb00.jpeg

GinAndJuche , 6 months ago

>I’ll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn’t really a communist revolution, but rather a group responsible for regime change using the term as they appoint a new elite.

I’ll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn’t really a banning, but rather a group responsible for userbase change using the term as they appoint a new banned user.

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

che-smile even more satisfying after he called us all “reactionaries”

frauddogg , 5 months ago

[wheeze]

ShimmeringKoi , 6 months ago

Oh, you must have missed my comment then. Here you go:

During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum

If they just wanted power, they could have easily joined the very powerful repressive governments that ruled at the time. Castro could have signed on with Batista’s regime. Mao could have joined the ruling KMT. Instead, they risked their lives doing the much harder and more dangerous work of going against the US empire and it’s puppet states.

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

Oh, you must have missed my comment then

Its interesting how they always seem to miss a comment that is providing what they claim to want. Hmmmmmm

ShimmeringKoi , 6 months ago

During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum

If they just wanted power, they could have easily joined the very powerful repressive governments that ruled at the time. Castro could have signed on with Batista’s regime. Mao could have joined the ruling KMT. Instead, they risked their lives doing the much harder and more dangerous work of going against the US empire and it’s puppet states.

zifnab25 , 6 months ago

Mao literally wearing the “Mao Suit” everywhere, just like a Communist Poser.

BurgerPunk , 6 months ago

mao-wave

Vingst , 6 months ago

If you just want power you dont have to pretend to be socialist. See Pinochet, among many examples. Pretending to be socialist would just be unnecessary extra work and having the most powerful countries as enemies instead of friends.

Kieselguhr , 6 months ago

even liberal and conservative historians agree that the damn commies were actual communists: behind closed doors they didn’t talk about machiavellian power grabs - they used the same historical materialist framework they would use in public. (for example Kotkin is adamant about this in his Stalin bio. Communists believed in communism. Shocker.)

marco , 6 months ago

Do you believe Trump would have handled this conflict any better?

queermunist , 6 months ago

I believe he would have responded roughly the same.

I also believe he would have fumbled the delicate balance Biden is trying to strike, where he has been able to protect and support Israel without provoking a wider conflict. Trump isn’t exactly a strategic statesman. Under Trump, Israel would have found itself facing total isolation from the West and a rapidly escalating conflict with all of its neighbors in the region. Whether that would result in Israel backing down with their tail between their legs or WW3 is hard to say.

I’m not voting for Trump, though. I don’t want either Biden or Trump. I want to kill myself. At least that way my vote counts.