Can any music experts explain to me why the TNG theme is so good?

There’s something about the TNG theme (played during the opening credits) that seems unique and special to my ear. But I don’t know about music and orchestral production to make sense of it.

It sounds to me like the mix or maybe arrangement is somewhat unusual, even compared to other TNG era star trek themes. It seems to have a brightness and sheen to its tones that are almost synth like (??) But also the arrangement seems to hit some sweet sci-fi spot, like the way strings and trumpets with oboes/clarinets underneath (??) all mix together? Or is the chords that are played some where?

I don’t know, but I’ve always thought it had a sheen and sparkle that almost sounds like star trek (or at least TNG star trek).

Anyone else notice something similar? Anyone know what’s going on?

startrekexplained ,

Jerry Goldsmith was a genius. Listen to any of his soundtracks.

Someology , (edited )
@Someology@lemmy.world avatar

TL;DR: It’s the only symphonic march. Loads of brass chord progressions.

Because Jerry Goldsmith did a great orchestral arrangement riffing on the old sci-fi 60s style theme. He made it very grand with Symphonic March style and the layered horn/trumpet progressions. It is a revision of what he had previously written for Star Trek: The Motion Picture, which might also be part of why it’s a March. So, if we look at the styles of a bunch of the the themes:

  • TOS: fast 60s vocal arrangement
  • TNG: symphonic march with cascading brass/french horn progressions
  • DS9: Slower non-march style of symphonic theme
  • VOY: Slower grand/inspiring symphonic theme
  • ENT: Well, it’s a pop song.
  • DISC: Very moody/pensive slow start, growing slowly to a note of inspiration.
  • PIC: Similar to DISC with a very slow/moody start. Lots of melancholy layering.
  • SNW: Almost between a march and mini overture in feel, but without all those cascading horn progressions that TNG had.

:)

VeeSilverball ,
@VeeSilverball@kbin.social avatar

To me, a big difference is in the lengthy prelude, which follows the model of TOS, just with an updated production. First the synths layered with strings, which are very 80's wonder-music(it could be right out of the score for Flight of the Navigator or The Goonies) and then the french horns come in playing a round, which adds a Wagnerian element.

The percussive "march music" elements quoting TMP are subdued in TNG's arrangement - it's a less compressed, "punchy" sound, and I believe the mic has been set farther back or they've EQ'd out some higher frequencies. Those decisions, plus a few choices of instrumentation like the harp glissandos, tone down the bombastic energy and add a gliding, romantic quality. Again, more like TOS, but updated.

maegul OP ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Thank you! The compression and microphone points fit. And yea those glissandos definitely change the feel of the theme. IMO, they’re easy to miss but make a huge difference.

Thanks again!

Izzy ,
@Izzy@lemmy.world avatar

It’s great at giving off the feeling of hopefulness. It feels really optimistic about the future while having a sense of mystery.

skellener , (edited )
@skellener@kbin.social avatar

Even better as the theme to Star Trek The Motion Picture where it is originally from.

Madison_rogue ,
@Madison_rogue@kbin.social avatar

Faced with composing a new Star Trek theme for the film, Goldsmith initially struggled for inspiration, and proceeded to compose as much of the score as possible before the need to develop the main title theme. His initial score for the scene in which the newly-refit Starship Enterprise is revealed to the audience was not well received by the filmmakers, director Robert Wise feeling that it lacked a strong thematic hook and evoked sailing ships. Though somewhat irked by its rejection, Goldsmith consented to re-work his initial idea and finally arrived at the Star Trek theme which was ultimately used.

Jerry Goldsmith - Wikipedia

The theme is distinct. I had always correlated the theme with TNG until I watched The Motion Picture several years after TNG. I did not recognize that the theme was used in both. It's amazing because it almost didn't exist, and was composed after pretty much the rest of the score was complete. Goldsmith had to rework it because the director wanted a "strong thematic hook."

skellener ,
@skellener@kbin.social avatar

Yes. 👍

Voyager763 ,

I think it’s because it’s so different from any of the other Star Trek themes, even from the rest of the Berman era. It’s bright, bouncy, optimistic, and bombastic. DS9 and Voyager were both more sweeping and majestic, and the movie themes each skewed more melodic.

The franchise hasn’t really captured the same energy in a theme since, either.

Ragnell ,
@Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

It's just the most energized, honestly. The TNG theme wakes you up and makes you pay attention.

charonn0 ,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

Fun fact: originally, TNG was going to have a completely different theme:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzpeulsbv8o

maegul OP ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Yea’ve I heard that before … I didn’t listen all the way through though … yuck!!

kargarocP4 ,

Actually, if you’ve watched TNG’s early seasons, you’ve already heard this unused theme, in bits and pieces.
The very first piece of music heard in TNG ever (that isn’t the intro itself) is a slower, less energetic (more introspective I guess?) version of that unused theme.
The main leitmotif itself appears all over early TNG.
I figure that, when Maccarthy was writing the early filler music, he assumed that his theme would become the main theme, and so heavily leaned into it when writing the filler music. Obviously, the main theme was tossed - but not his other music.

jmp242 ,

Hilariously it kind of makes me think of like The Orville - you know all those “Star Trek” themes without copyright issues.

kargarocP4 ,

Speaking of unused music, the final TMP/TNG theme itself was almost different:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbdhC-OXXa0

There’s an interview where they tell stories, and apparently after they made this early version of the music, Robert Wise listened to it and gave the best three word critique ever - “There’s no theme!”
Goldsmith basically went “…oh.”, then went back and reworked what he had already into the 2nd version, and there you go that’s the final theme.

Hairyblue ,
@Hairyblue@kbin.social avatar

I have always loved it. It gives a feeling of space being infinite and and then the theme sound very grand.

yildo ,

The time signature (I had to Google) starts in the common 4/4 but then switches into 12/8 or 6/8 which has a lot of flavour

maegul OP ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Ooohhh … interesting … any links or can you roughly point me to the part where shift happens? Inuitively this makes sense though that there’s a kind of rhythmic drive that comes out midway.

yildo ,

I'm sure I saw an interesting article about it many years ago, but this is the best I can find right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/ql0bsd/what_time_signature_is_the_tng_theme/

maegul OP ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m sorry … that URL doesn’t work in browser for some reason. 😏

But also thanks!!

Datas_Cat_Spot ,
@Datas_Cat_Spot@startrek.website avatar

It somehow manages to be very orchestral and fanfare-y but also like a normal TV show introducing actors. I love that it feels like a celebration for all the awesome characters that we’re about to watch.

WhoRoger ,
@WhoRoger@lemmy.world avatar

Am I the only one who kinda hates it? Maybe it is that it was made for cinema, where this kind of loud, somewhat obnoxious epic-like theme is expected, but the way how it’s trying to scream “Hey look, this guy is watching Star Trek!” while I’m just trying to chill at night, is pretty annoying.

It’s like when flicking through random TV channels and a loud sex scene comes up.

cybervseas ,

It’s certainly bombastic. I think after the disco TOS theme, they really wanted to point out how different and grand TNG will be. Even the words, changing from “its five year mission” to “it’s continuing mission” are meant to impress the viewer with the sense of scale.

maegul OP ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Ha … yea there is some bombast for sure. In fact I think if it didn’t have the sonic qualities that I think I’m picking up on I wouldn’t like at as much for this reason.

If you compare the TNG theme to the theme in TMP, (youtube, TMP: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI9YYe-jgHI, youtube TNG: www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5kcBxL7-qI), I feel like I can hear a difference and I think it’s that difference that makes me like the TNG theme … that it has a sound (not the music so much) that feels like TNG to me.

WhoRoger ,
@WhoRoger@lemmy.world avatar

Now that you mention it, I like the TMP more. Maybe it’s just because I’ve heard the TNG theme a trillion times, but compared to TMP… I don’t know, I guess it’s like hearing a 1-minute disco remix of a song you like. The gist of it is there, but it’s not the same and kinda spoils the whole thing.

flamingmongoose ,

The theme does seem to be loud in the mix

Bishma ,
@Bishma@social.fossware.space avatar

Jerry Goldsmith was a master composer.

Rhaedas ,
@Rhaedas@kbin.social avatar

All the composers for Star Trek have been incredible in their own right. Everyone has their preferred (James Horner) but I have yet to not enjoy a Star Trek opening. And yes, that includes Enterprise. It tried to break the mold and failed, but I give it a pass because the visual sequence with it gets me still.

I will say that First Contact's theme is damn good. Especially when used at the end with the Vulcan meeting.

Bishma ,
@Bishma@social.fossware.space avatar

So you’re saying you have faith in Star Trek theme songs? Faith in the heart. You’re goin’ where your heart will take you?

Rhaedas ,
@Rhaedas@kbin.social avatar

It's been a long road getting from there to here.

Ragnell ,
@Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

Honestly, the change on Enterprise being a lyrical song kind of fits because they aren't the Federation yet. It's a prequel. So it has this country tune playing in the intro instead.

Vordus ,

Not country; rock. Extremely soft rock. It’s a cover of a song originally performed by Rod Stewart. For the movie Patch Adams.

Ragnell ,
@Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

Really? Wow.

Someology ,
@Someology@lemmy.world avatar

Here’s the original version of the song: youtu.be/jrE5a-ehYS0

Ragnell ,
@Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

Wow. Thanks.

I think I like the Enterprise version different. It's an arrangement that does what the better themes like TNG do, where you start off gentle and build to something more exciting. Not as good to me as TNG, but it accomplishes the task of getting you into the mindset for the show.

kargarocP4 , (edited )

I saw a lot of opinions back in the day about it, and it almost seems like people were offended that they even tried to break the mold at all.

I don’t actually mind Faith Of The Heart for the intro. My biggest problem with it is that its not an original song - it was written specifically for a movie that was completely unrelated to Star Trek.
I would probably appreciate it more if they wrote their own song for ENT - it could even be a country/pop song like FOTH, but it would still be a Star Trek song.
They definitely cherry picked the best bits of the song for the intro though. I like their cover more than the original.

Rhaedas ,
@Rhaedas@kbin.social avatar

It was received very poorly, even tainting reception of the show (which turned out to be appreciated and wanting more, long after it was gone). People just expected a classical sounding instrumental, and it hit wrong. They probably should have test marketed the idea and had some fallbacks. Still, I remember seeing the opening of the first episode and catching the frigate "Enterprize", and thinking this was great regardless.

alex ,
@alex@mstdn.ca avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    maegul OP ,
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yea … me too and many others. It’s the proof that they missed the mark with the show’s presentation. Many thought it wasn’t actually Trek and something had gone wrong. I thought it was a cheap rip off. And sure, maybe we all had expectations we were too stubborn about, but by the same token, you have to meet your audience where they are. TNG, as I understand, was mindful that they had to get the older Trek fans, and Enterprise should have been mindful that they basically had to do the same and find the middle ground between everything being new and it still feeling like Trek.

    Literally starting off with that theme was the wrong move. It’s out of place, and for many of us, Country music is an awful cringey genre while classical/orchestral is far more universal. Stay with the orchestral theme and you would have us at least past the opening credits.

    alex ,
    @alex@mstdn.ca avatar

    @maegul It’s especially puzzling because they had a great theme song right in front of them - and they stuck it in the end credits!

    maegul OP ,
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    Ha, yea it wasn’t bad. Not sure it would have worked well as an opening theme, but, clearly IMO better than what they went with.

    AustNerevar ,

    IIRC, Faith of the Heart was heir fallback. They wanted Beautiful Day by U2, but couldn’t get the license.

    Ragnell ,
    @Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

    Beautiful Day would have been worse, I think.

    Mysterious Ways would have been interestingly ironic.

    jmp242 ,

    I thought it was weird at first, but actually liked it. I didn’t really get the hate - there’s plenty of shows I like a lot that I like the theme a lot less and especially today you can easily skip it.

    Ragnell ,
    @Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

    Yeah.

    Now you have me thinking of other movie songs that might've fit Enterprise, though. For some reason "Don't you forget about me" comes immediately to mind.

    JWBananas ,
    @JWBananas@kbin.social avatar

    And yes, that includes Enterprise

    [skip Intro]

    jmp242 ,

    I know this is probably going to get me booed, but I actually liked Enterprise’s theme. Heck, I can sing along! And I loved the visuals.

    Logh ,

    Ah, the good ol’ DX7 whoooosh at beggining.

    ValueSubtracted Mod ,
    @ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

    The fact that it was originally written for a theatrical film probably helps.

    maegul OP , (edited )
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    Oh … I don’t know anything about that … ?

    TMP … ah nearly forgot. Literally walked away from writing this post thinking “wait a minute … I have heard it outside of TNG …”.

    Yea, interesting, hadn’t considered that. Thanks.

    ValueSubtracted Mod ,
    @ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI9YYe-jgHI

    maegul OP ,
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    Ha … yea I remembered after forgetting … thanks!

    regeya ,

    Yeah, basically they took the intro Dennis McCarthy wrote for TNG, and replaces his theme with the TMP theme

    youtu.be/jzpeulsbv8o

    LanternEverywhere ,

    OMG my brain hates it! I mean objectively i know it sounds great, but it's so wrong from what my brain expects that it makes me bleah!

    maegul OP ,
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    Watching that video it seems to me that there’s something different in the mix that is part of what I’m talking about. I’m young enough to have seen TNG before TMP and I remember noticing this when I first watched TMP and heard the same theme. The sort of sheen that I’m talking about is more present in the TNG theme. I think the violins are EQd higher and are louder in the mix (??)

    ValueSubtracted Mod ,
    @ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

    I believe it’s a re-arrangement and re-recording, yeah.

    kargarocP4 ,

    Re-arranged for a smaller orchestra, and more energetic (most noticeable in the percussion)

    IanM32 ,
    @IanM32@lemmy.world avatar

    I think you can be forgiven for forgetting about TMP.

    I know I try to.

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