Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x05 "Charades"

LoglineA shuttle accident leads to Spock’s Vulcan DNA being removed by aliens, making him fully human and completely unprepared to face T’Pring’s family during an important ceremonial dinner.

Written by Kathryn Lyn & Henry Alonso Myers

Directed by Jordan Canning

BIGxChedda ,

Where all the comments

triktrek ,

Make sure to set your language settings to both UNDETERMINED and ENGLISH. It’s some Lemmy bug.

FormerGameDev ,

looks like it’s a particularly horrible intentional design decision

jalanhenning ,
@jalanhenning@startrek.website avatar

I had to go to my settings and click English to see them. Apparently I just had Undetermined. (I hope you can see this!)

triktrek ,

Make sure to select both.

AuroraBorealis ,
@AuroraBorealis@pawb.social avatar

Ethan peck looked like he had a blast with this episode, screaming into a towel is a mood

I also enjoyed the “subservient” dad who really just wanted to eat good food and play charades but was shot down :'( but then the captain gave him leftovers with a cool snap :)

Also, as a meta comment, I really dislike the scenes where it’s clear they are just I don’t of the LED wall. It looks so fake and the actors just stand there in an obviously empty room. Season 1 of SNW had at least one episode of this, and season 1 of the mandalorian did too, and they really need to follow the mandalorian example.abkut having actual physical props in addition to the LED wall to prevent it from looking fake as hell

triktrek ,

Regarding the LED wall, yeah, it was more obvious here. It felt like they were entering one of those gimmicky project-Van-Gogh-art-on-a-warehouse-wall tourist traps.

The episode where Uhura and Hemmer were trapped in the engine room was another one that stood out.

qantravon ,

Actually, I think they were in one of those places, given this post:

www.instagram.com/p/Cupdh9eAWf-/?igshid=Y2IzZGU1M…

Lockely ,
@Lockely@pawb.social avatar

The last episode on Rigel VII was shot in front of the Holodeck (what the call Trek’s AR Wall) and it was breathtakingly good. The emptiness was likely part of the point with this species.

koreth ,

The AR wall was obvious but it doesn’t bother me that much. Environments that require active suspension of disbelief have been a Star Trek staple since the 1960s.

AuroraBorealis ,
@AuroraBorealis@pawb.social avatar

I think my problem was that the rest of the sets look so good with actual physical spaces that a empty wall feels…empty :P

shirro ,

Having grown up watching matte paintings, shaky plywood sets, bubble wrap monsters and people running up and down the same corridor repeatedly and then decades of soulless bad CGI I have nothing bad to say about modern productions standards. There is something special and human about the artistry of matte paintings, scale models and physical sets but I don’t know that today’s viewers have the same capacity for suspension of disbelief. LED walls allow some story telling that would otherwise be to expensive to visualise.

SkaveRat ,

It’s insane how a series can be so good

UESPA_Sputnik , (edited )
@UESPA_Sputnik@lemmy.world avatar

“This is irregular. A complaint outside the response period.” - those aliens are Germans. 😄

Great episode. Just the right amount of whackiness to not make it too ludicrous. And it wasn’t just comedy, at its core this episode had a human heart - no pun intended - with Spock connecting to his mother’s burden.

One thing that I realized, once again, is that I don’t really know what Una’s job on the Enterprise really is. She’s barely doing anything. You’d expect her to accompany the away team at the end of the episode (or did they steal the shuttle, now that they know how to steal the Enterprise). For an XO she’s barely noticeable. This isn’t a complaint about this episode, it’s a thread that runs throughout the series.

To end on a positive note: can those costume designers finally get an award please? The outfits on this show are always so stunning.

Edit: I just realized that the episode was written by Kathryn Lyn who also wrote one of Lower Decks’ funniest episodes, “wej Duj”. She seems to become Star Trek’s go-to gal for comedy.

Madison_rogue ,
@Madison_rogue@kbin.social avatar

The most XO thing that Una has done throughout the entire series run is question junior officers about Enterprise Bingo.

Seriously though as a former sailor I can verify that an XO's job is tedious and boring. It's all paperwork, inspections, and disciplinary crap outside of Captain's Mast (yet an XO does most the work for that before a CO sees anything). The bulk of Una storytelling that we've seen is pretty great. Ortega is the one who needs to shine at this point. She hasn't had much story development.

triktrek ,

Edit: I just realized that the episode was written by Kathryn Lyn who also wrote one of Lower Decks’ funniest episodes, “wej Duj”. She seems to become Star Trek’s go-to gal for comedy.

Makes perfect sense when you realize that T’Lyn (named after her) was another passive aggressive Vulcan that provides comic relief was introduced in “wej Duj”.

erbazzone ,

I was not a fan of the spock chapel love story but this episode was def a banger

lwaxana_katana ,

I really don’t understand why they have to do this whole Chapel/Spock thing. :( I like T’Pring more.

UESPA_Sputnik ,
@UESPA_Sputnik@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe it’s finally time for Star Trek to boldly go … for polyamory.

ThrowawayInTheYear23 , (edited )

Giggity Giggity and some feelings for La’an.

IonAddis ,
@IonAddis@lemmy.world avatar

She’s a human with restrained emotions. I’m not surprised he’d feel a bit of something for her.

Hypersapien ,

Because it’s been a thing since the '60s

brandoncarey , (edited )
@brandoncarey@vivaldi.net avatar

@Hypersapien @lwaxana_katana

To be fair, TOS didn't really go hard on Spock+Chapel, but even being a doofus kid, I shipped it.

Hypersapien ,

EVERYONE shipped it. Erotic fan fics have been around for a LONG time.

Of course, most of them involved Spock and Kirk.

Lockely ,
@Lockely@pawb.social avatar

Didn’t Naked Time have Chapel literally profess her love for Spock?

khaosworks ,
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

Annotations up at startrek.website/post/353200

cybervseas ,

Good for Ethan Peck. It’s like when Brent Spiner got to play Lore or Doctor Soong and express himself through other characters. Human Spock is basically another character. It would be nice to see him again some day.

famousringo ,

Chapel killed Hupock. That monster!

khaosworks ,
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

The Kherkovians remind me of my worst customer service experiences. I bet Yellow and Blue aren’t even their real names, just aliases to mask the rep of the day.

I’m also convinced they have to be connected to the Bajoran Prophets somehow. A transport tunnel? An interdimensional liminal space? Come on!

The Vulcan comedy of manners was hilarious, especially the Awareness ritual, which is basically every thing your in-laws hate about you but told to your face with no pretense. Pike trying to get them to play charades was a little too on the nose, I think, right up there with “You’re astronauts on some kind of Star Trek.”

I was half convinced the mind meld would turn out to be a TAS: “Yesteryear” reference. Not gonna lie, felt a bit let down. They’re also really teasing us with this Korby stuff.

I also thought the reason Spock didn’t tell T’Pring was because he thought there was a risk T’Pril might pick it up during the meld.

While I enjoy them, I do hope the zany episodes don’t always revolve around Vulcans. As funny as they are (and teaching Spock how to talk like a Vulcan was gasping for breath funny) I don’t always want them to be the butt of the joke.

adamlauver ,

I thought this episode walked a really fascinating line in its approach to exploring the lived experience and cultural significance of mixed identities. Having the ancient alien species misinterpret Spock’s Vulcan DNA as an anomaly/pathology was a risky move from a writing perspective given the potential for reproducing language and ideas associated with eugenics. But doing so allowed what what I thought was a more robust examination of Spock’s character and his relationships, by way of separating one half of his identity from the other and seeing what happens (like a smaller scale of Community’s excellent “Remedial Chaos Theory,” which examined how the study group might be affected by the temporary removal of each group member in turn).

There was plenty to laugh at, of course. Ethan Peck could easily have gone too over-the-top in playing Spock’s surge in human emotions, but I think he threaded the needle really well in allowing through just enough Vulcan “muscle memory” (as it were) to tamp down the humania – and he still managed to be extremely funny. And Anson Mount as always shined with his subtle (and hilarious) comic timing as the host of the engagement ceremony. Watch the way he snaps his fingers when T’Pring’s father asks for more Tevmel --and how he continues on in wide-eyed stride on his way back to the group once Spock starts admitting to his “condition.” Mount is a performer who knows how to blend into the scenery rather than chew it – a distinct quality in a Star Trek captain and a consistently funny one to boot.

But what really made this episode work for me was the heart in addition to the humor. I have a friend who remarked earlier this season that she doesn’t understand why Star Trek is so obsessed with Spock’s human side; she’s much more attracted to his Vulcan side and is confused at what she sees as the constant efforts to make him “more human.” I can see her frustration, and this episode certainly turns into that skid a bit. But the show isn’t fantasizing or daydreaming about a Spock that’s fully human – it’s using the idea as a tool to understand his fuller and more complex identity, and to celebrate what makes Spock Spock. And I absolutely shed tears when Spock came clean to T’Pring’s parents about his condition, not just out of personal pride but as a way to express affection and appreciation for his human mother. What a wonderful moment.

And I think this episode’s true strength was in depicting how everyone in Spock’s life understood that being made “more human” didn’t make him better or more “fun” or more “relatable.” Not once did anyone murmur to anyone else something like, “Are we sure we want to fix him?” (which I could easily see Dr. McCoy saying, for example). Instead, everyone understood fundamentally the unique value of Spock’s half-human/half-Vulcan identity, and went to great lengths to bring it back. It might have been a bit corny to funnel that through Nurse Chapel’s romantic feelings for him, and having her have to admit those feelings to an ancient alien species – but it was smart, too. (And seeing her tell the Vulcan Science Academy that she didn’t think their fellowship was ready for her made me literally pump my arm, by the way).

Another solid Spock-centric episode in my book. I look forward to reading what everyone else thought!

SoSquidTaste ,

humania

My first time seeing this; delightful term hahah

I also can't agree enough with your observation about the human side as a lens through which to understand Spock and how he relates to those around him. Double points for noting the lack of quippiness in the vein of "Are we sure we want to fix him?" I hate that I need to praise that kind of restraint in TV / movie writing these days but, well, here we are.

As for my original contribution here:

I realllly liked the fact that while I'm sure I'm not alone in shipping TF out of Spock and Chapel, I feel like this episode went to decently robust character exploration such that the ending bit felt a lot less tacked on, or a writer's wink "for the shippers". A lot of that IMO rests on Spock's monologue at the end of the dinner. For just another layer of appreciation of that character moment.

snowyday ,

Speaking of Community, I once banged Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom

Remedial Chaos Theory synced to Jeff hitting his head:

youtu.be/kmQGaJth_mc

eva_sieve ,

Kinda sad we didn’t get James Frain back as Sarek for this episode. I could kinda see him bumping into Chapel and reminiscing about how the Vulcan Science Academy was absolutely awful to his 1.5 human kids.

FormerGameDev ,

Remember that Sarek is not speaking to Spock for another like 18 years or so

Weerdo ,

So, that whole section for Spock on being a Vulcan, That’s the video clip they’re going to give new actors for Vulcans isn’t it? Right down to the prosthetics.

Onurb ,

such a great episode. love it

erbazzone ,

Why I get notifications but I can’t see any comment nor I can see the thread in the homepage? If it has been cancelled how there are people keeping commenting?

ValueSubtracted OP Mod ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

Please make sure your language settings have BOTH “Undetermined” and “English” selected. That is the culprit 90% of the time.

erbazzone ,

Oh thanks! Solved

BadExampleMan ,

At first I was thinking, “I thought we had all agreed that we did not approve of hijinx” and I am totally unable to enjoy cringe humor. It doesn’t make me laugh, just…cringe.

BUT it turned out that it was in service of advancing two of Spock’s most intimate relationships and wow, that packed a punch. It was like, for us 21st century humans, the first time you looked at your parent and saw them as a fully fleshed-out adult with their own struggles, not just “mom” or “dad”.

T’Pring was 100% right to feel slighted by Spock not confiding in her, though I don’t think it was lack of trust on his part, I think it was more not wanting to have both of them in a situation where they had to deal with…hijinx. But that’s what marriage is, committing yourself to another person first, always. And apparently Spock is not ready for that yet.

tukarrs ,

In Spock’s defense… T’Pring was just saying that her mom would cancel the wedding if she found any deviations. Would T’Pring have been able to hide Spock’s situation during the mind meld?

Madison_rogue ,
@Madison_rogue@kbin.social avatar

I thought the same thing myself. I do agree with Spock's motivation and the way handled it; I think T'pring's response of taking time apart is definitely emotionally motivated. As Spock mentioned that Vulcans feel more intensely than humans, assuredly T'pring (because she does truly love Spock) was quite angry and hurt he didn't disclose that he was human.

The time apart might be necessary for T'pring to realize that Spock's actions were the best course of action given the circumstances.

khaosworks , (edited )
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

If Spock had used that excuse it might have seemed logical. I suspect that it wasn’t used because the writers needed a stronger motivator for T’Pring and Spock to take a break and using that reason explicitly would weaken T’Pring’s decision.

I can understand T’Pring’s hurt feelings. She’s been nothing but supportive of Spock’s humanity and his search for identity. She tolerates the long separations. She desperately wants the relationship to work, gets to know his friends and family and she even gives him tips during the tea ceremony like a partner is supposed to do. To her, they’re a team, but to Spock, she’s still an outsider who needs to be compartmentalized in favor of his shipboard family. Spock claims it’s because he wanted to protect her and to an extent it’s probably true, but the bottom line is that he doesn’t trust her to be helpful, and that’s not the way a partner behaves.

No wonder that himbo Stonn’s in like a shot.

khaosworks ,
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

Aha! I just noticed that the lead writer on this episode is Kathryn Lyn, who also wrote the best episode of Lower Decks to date: the incredible “wej Duj”.

No wonder I thought that Ortegas’ line about “Notice how I move my eyebrow but no other muscles in my face,” sounded like something Mariner would say.

triktrek ,

Nice catch. Also, T’Lyn was introduced in “wej Duj” and was named of writer Kathryn Lyn. Seems like Lyn has a knack for Vulcans. According to Memory Alpha, she’s a big Star Trek fan and cosplayed at conventions.

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