xkcd

KISSmyOSFeddit , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech

I once met a girl in a bar who spoke such absolutely perfect and grammatically correct German she did sound like an alien impersonating a human.
Or someone who very much wants to show that she's better than you.

Turns out she wasn't from Germany at all. She was an immigrant from Slovakia, who had learnt German at such a high level that it sounded weird.

laughterlaughter ,

I've had Americans ask me the meaning of words I've used in a sentence. Like "what's tranquil?" (I'm non-native.)

I blame reading.

stormdelay ,

Speaking English using French vocabulary is a real cheat code

laughterlaughter ,

I was thinking more of Spanish, but yup. Same thing.

marcos ,

Yeah, coming from Portuguese, I know by hearth all of the refined vocabulary to be found in English.

But the mundane is a whole other world.

laughterlaughter ,

Like "bamboozled"!

LemmyKnowsBest ,

English speakers can really enhance their vocabulary when they know French. English does have a lot of French words that most people don't use anymore but if you use them, your vocabulary becomes off-the-charts intellectual.

ZDL ,
@ZDL@ttrpg.network avatar

Pseudo-intellectual. A clear communicator uses the simplest, precise word that has the precise meaning they intend, reaching most commonly for the Germanic vocabulary unless they need the subtler shades of meaning from the Latinate. A pseudo-intellectual uses Latinate vocabulary to conceal what they're actually saying or to intimidate people who aren't as comfortable on the Latinate side of the fence. It's a form of intellectual bullying that, to my mind, makes the person using it look insecure (not to mention likely dishonest).

A good communicator's motto should be "eschew gratuitous obfuscation (see what I mean?)".

lars ,

Anglo-language conversations plus Franco-vocabulary utilization, remains a veritable trick code

De rien

Aceticon ,

I once did an English language vocabulary test that yielded that I'm amongst the top 0.01% in terms of amount of English-language vocabulary.

English is not my mother tongue and I still and often make mistakes in the use of "in"-vs-"on" or even in certain forms of past tense.

However I read a lot in English, in various areas of knowledge, plus it turns out lots of really obscure words in English are pretty much the same as a the word in some other language I know or even pretty much the Latin word, so when I didn't know that was the English word for that, I can often guess the meaning.

All this to say that I absolutelly agree with you that it's a reading thing, plus at more specialized language level, the "knowledge of foreign languages" also has some impact.

SkyezOpen ,

Got called a rich kid for knowing the word "carafe." Pretty sure I learned it from a book, my parents didn't have carafe with mountain spring water or some shit around the house.

LemmyKnowsBest ,

I learned that word from my dad when I was a child. we kept a carafe in the refrigerator designated for water. It's a wine carafe but can put anything in it. My dad was an alcoholic so he had a wine carafe and a lot of other alcohol-related accoutrements like beer steins.

captainlezbian ,

I learned it trying to fix a coffee maker. It’s news to me that it ain’t a coffee specific word.

Kazumara ,

The term "carafe" puts me in mind of a crystal glass container of between half a litre and two litres of volume for wine or water. What is it in relation to coffee? The glass bowl the coffee drips into in one of those dripping coffee makers?

captainlezbian ,

Exactly that. I picture it as one of those big jugs on an industrial coffee machine with the black or orange plastic to indicate if it has caffeine

ZDL ,
@ZDL@ttrpg.network avatar

I was scolded by a boss for using words that to me were perfectly ordinary everyday words. Words like "cognate" or "cognizant", say, but to him they sounded like I was showing off and making people feel bad.

Oops.

ZDL ,
@ZDL@ttrpg.network avatar

That's a different issue from sandhi. Vocabulary and dialect are another area of active study (often paired with yet another realm: sociolinguistics: the language you speak changes according to your social environment) that is a real rabbit hole.

RandomException ,

I've been learning German too myself, and the thing that the traditional language courses don't teach you is the way natives speak. Listening to actual German speakers was pretty much alien to me even after two years until I bumped into a couple Easy German videos where they touch the very same subject as this xkcd and that actually got me listening to certain parts of speech more carefully and that way also understand it better.

Now I actually find myself doing the same shortcuts sometimes when I'm progressing with the skill. It's the same with English since I have to use it daily at work even though I'm not a native speaker. Funny how the languages work in real life vs. in theory.

I_Fart_Glitter , (edited ) in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech

hɒʔpteɪdəʊ

bomberesque1 , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech

We English wouldn't only drop the first t, we'd drop the h and the final t as well, 'o pota'o... innit

Aceticon ,

And in my experience (or at least how I as a foreigner was taught the English RP pronounciation), often also the spaces between words.

ZDL ,
@ZDL@ttrpg.network avatar

RP drives me crazy with its bizarre pronunciation rules. Like never pronouncing 'R' unless it's not there.

"Law and order" under RP approximates "lo ran doh duh" where literally every 'R' in the phrase is not spoken, but they jam one in place of the 'W'.

ARGH! THE SPIDERS ARE EATING MY EYEBALLS FROM THE INSIDE!

megane_kun , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech
@megane_kun@lemm.ee avatar

I didn't get it until I started trying to say "hot potato" in the middle of a sentence, like "Look out! Hot potato incoming!"

The 't' in "hot" became more and more like a glottal stop as my tongue started to touch the gums of my top front teeth less and less.

neo ,

Still, I don't think I could uncover that alien impersonator.

"I'm goa have some hot potato."

Too me the "t" (at most) emphasises the hotness. Am I wrong?

ChexMax ,

Are you the alien? Nobody calls a potato for eating hot potato... If you're eating a potato it's going to be hot. Hot potato is referring to the game where you pass something along very quickly. It's saying you're all passing something along that no one wants to get caught with or stuck with, and it's almost never literally, it's usually taking about a responsibility being passed or something like that.

neo ,

No, fellow human. Of course I am not the alien. Ha, ha, ha. You are funny and I would be pleased to talk with you another time in the future. Ha, ha, ha. Good bye.

ZDL ,
@ZDL@ttrpg.network avatar

If you’re eating a potato it’s going to be hot.

Potato salad has entered the chat.

megane_kun ,
@megane_kun@lemm.ee avatar

The alien impersonator was me all along!‌ HAHAHA!!!

I mean, seriously, I am not a native English speaker, but even with my weird English accent, it only became weirder if I try to speak fast while keeping the emphasis on that 't' at the end of "hot". My native accent also probably lends to that glottal stop taking over the 't' and merging it with the upcoming 'p' sound. It also helps that the two sounds (glottal stop and the bilabial 'p') are on opposite sides of my mouth, so I‌ can quickly sound them in succession. The end result sounded to me like an exaggerated "posh British" rendition, as if the alien watched way too much‌ BBC before invading Earth.

It just sounded way weirder than I otherwise would be. I can't really describe it.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Djeet?

No, djou?

ZDL ,
@ZDL@ttrpg.network avatar

👏Perfect choice.

BluJay320 , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech
@BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Hop-pa-taydo

Also, the phrase “I’m going to” is often shortened to “I’mma” or “I’m ‘onna”. When referring to oneself, we tend to drop the G entirely

BobTheDestroyer ,

like this example for Imma be there.

Ironfacebuster , in xkcd #2941: Cell Organelles

Man of course our cells have both a weak spot and a drain plug. Engineers, man.

Jhestyr , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech

Up and at them!

Sam_Bass , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech

I get as far as the third panel. Anything beyond that is drunk speak

Zagorath , (edited )
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

I thought the same at first, but then I tried actually saying it out loud. "Yeah, I'm just gonna go to the shops". And I actually think Munroe has it right here, at least for my accent. If I had been asked to say it and carefully analyse it myself, I probably wouldn't have noticed at all that I was eliding more than "going to" to "gonna". And if I had noticed, I still probably would have analysed it as (and I'm using Hangul here because frankly I don't know how to spell out the vowel in the Latin alphabet in a way that actually makes sense) 근 (basically "gun", but with a lazier vowel). But it's definitely been elided down to a single syllable.

The key thing is that this only happens when putting it into the middle of a full sentence. If it's the only word I say, it stays "gonna".

edit: wait 🤦‍♂️. I can use IPA. I'd have analysed it as /gən/ But realistically, Munroe's /gә̃/ is probably more accurate.

grue ,

I can only get to /gә̃/ if I make an effort to say it faster than I ever actually talk. Otherwise, it definitely always has that "n" sound in there.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

Yeah, “gon’” seems about the most efficient form of “going to” that would be recognizable.

Going to > gonna > gon’

I guess if you’ve lived anywhere where speech has drifted a little hillbilly this version is just daily speech rather than any need for speed.

Glowstick , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech

This example doesn't work for me. I barely pronounce the "t" even when i just say the word "hot" by itself, so when i say "hot potato" i don't pronounce the t any differently.

jballs ,
@jballs@sh.itjust.works avatar

Now I'm just sitting here picturing you saying stuff like "Careful don't touch that! That pan is ho!"

ouRKaoS ,

After repeating it out loud for a bit, it comes out more like "hah" than "ho"

Glowstick ,

Yup exactly. It's something like "hahd" but the end is extremely quiet, and the sound is like halfway between a t and d. Kind of like how French people say a final t at the end of a word like beret

Jakylla , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech
@Jakylla@sh.itjust.works avatar

As a non native English speaker, I had to read your comments to understand the "Hot potato" one... Seems that I'm not as fluent in English as I thought (my accent is shit)

laughterlaughter ,

"hu- p-taydoh"

LemmyKnowsBest , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech

Haw'potado

metallic_substance ,

Phonetically, it's exactly right, but It visually reads like the name of a Vulcan side character from an episode of star trek

cobysev , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech

See, my middle name ends with an S and my last name begins with an S... and my middle name is a pluralized name, so nobody hears the S when I say it in conjunction with my last name. So I've gotten really good at pronouncing the S, stopping for a beat, then saying my last name, without it sounding super weird or robotic.

So properly pronouncing "hot potato" while enunciating the first T doesn't seem too challenging to me.

asteriskeverything ,

This is some riddle shit I can't figure out

Yearly1845 ,

Something like "Adams Smith" probably fits the bill. People would hear "Adam Smith"

asteriskeverything ,

Thanks so much! I always sucked at riddles I couldn't come up with anything lol

Zagorath , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

Amusingly, just a couple of days ago we had a post about this same phenomenon in !ausmemes.

https://aussie.zone/post/10395900

dumbass , in xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech
@dumbass@leminal.space avatar

OOoo wiggley wiggely wiggely

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