I really like my job. However, the company and I are a simplified relationship. They pay me, I do work. If they stopped paying, I would stop working.
I am loyal to the people and they to me. I wouldn’t leave them with no/low notice because that is a dick move. This is not entirely altruistic, of course, as my best chance for a new job are the people I know.
This is a hot take. People have definitely wanted to work. The problem is now we don’t need to. There was a point that humans needed to work or we would not evolve as a species. There are many that took pride in being a part of that. Now that need has shifted into we could feasibly feed and shelter every soul on the planet and a few greedy fucks don’t know how to coordinate it with all their riches.
Depends what you mean by work. People always want to do things and create things and help others. They don’t want to spend 8 hours a day doing menial, meaningless crap just to be able live.
My point is that they did. Back when there was a sense of accomplishment that added to the human existence. There was a sense of pride to a lot of workers in the 50s for many reasons. I do agree that it has changed. And a lot of it has to do with the rewards given. But they still exist.
I don’t think they have. I think they were made to labor under the whip or under a promise for something. You’re like that other guy thinking the guy cracking the whip or promoting the latest video game are “working”.
Working in a textile mill in 120 degree heat is work. It’s work no one wants to do. No one comes in and argues pedantically about “well I find sweating my ass off for minimum wage fulfilling”. That’s work.
Going into your temperature controlled office where you’re a CPA and get paid wonderfully and enjoy numbers isn’t the same thing at all.
The work I’m referencing is the bottom tier shit that without it the economy would crumble. Not your SEO manager bullshit job that you think you love cause you’re making 6 figures in a 5 figure town.
Buddy, working in a textile mill in 48 °C is a safety hazard and modern slavery. You have a weird warped pedantic perspective on what work means. And somejow the rest of us should take the dictionary definition and throw it out of the window and instead adopt your made up definition that seems to only work in your head? 😬 No thanks.
The first is modern slavery. The second is work. Hope it helps! Cheers.
Ps: SEO manager? Clearly it was a mistake to engage you at all because you didn’t read squat shit of what I wrote. Note to the future: do not engage people who haven’t even read your own text, and don’t bother reading their text to the end. They are upset at a phantom in their heads, not you.
Wow what a sweeping statement with no legs to stand on.
I love work. I worked (yes) quite hard to get a degree and become a developer and ML engineer. One day, I’d like to work in computational neuroscience. I hate so many things about work culture, but the work itself? Naaah, it’s awesome. I’d rather spend every day in this life working on something I love and have interested in, instead of going around making sweeping statements about the entire globe on the internet, incapable of accepting that not everyone is like me.
Oh my oh my sorry for taking people in the internet at face value. Next time I’ll just guess what their thought process was and live my life based on that.
Here’s another one: I’m so sorry your life must really suck with work and all to the point that you can’t see other people enjoying it and where you feel the need to say they aren’t really “working” just because they found something they love and succeeded in navigating the shitty system (out or merit or luck or privilege, whatever) and you didn’t /:
We can all be on the same side. I hate modern work culture and I actively try to improve it and myself day after day. I’m sure you do too.
You need to consider that most jobs out there are simply things that need to be done, not things that people are passionate about. Getting a higher eductation and a complex job is something for which I consider myself very lucky. I was born with all the opportunities to do so. Despite these privileges, I acknowledge that the people doing the fundamental, low level jobs deserve adequate compensation to lead a happy life
You need to consider that most jobs out there are simply things that need to be done
This was always my view. I don’t think I said anything at all that implies otherwise. So we already agree. My original comment was in response to someone saying no one ever in existence wanted to work. Surely you’ve met idiots on the internet and had to explain things to them before, no? Hard for me to assume they were using a literary device. I’d rather take them at face value.
Then get ready for lots of downvotes because apparently pointing out that someone made a sweeping generalization then telling the world you’re one of those few who enjoy their jobs means you deserve being downvoted to hell 😁
Soft disagree. I want to do meaningful work and interesting work. It’s boring bullshit getting 10 managers to approve a change when none of them know what I even do. I love working on my projects in my garage, or in my kitchen on baking something.
My mom can see the corruption with modern work culture and she’s Gen X and knows the same reasons I do as to why people don’t want to work. I think Gen Z, Millenials and Gen X are starting to stand up to the Boomers shitty work culture. We just want to be treated with kindness and have a good work environment how hard is that?
My grandfather was a garbage man so my father could be a fireman so I could stock grocery shelves whilst writing the Great American Novel on my days off.
You missed a word. It says “prioritizing living over working”. The promise was to work hard and a lot to get a good lifestyle (house, a nice car or two, vacations). Now it’s work hard but without those rewards in sight. So we cut back on working to a point where we can still have an okay lifestyle.
I realize I’m privileged as my situation is a lot better than having to live paycheck to paycheck. However, if I wanted to get a nice house, decent car, vacations, etc. I’d have to put in a lot more work than the usual 40 hours. Instead of doing that though I looked at my finances and decided, I could reduce my hours to 35 without decreasing my quality of life too much so I did that instead.
I do understand though that people in precarious and less-compensated jobs cannot afford this luxury.
Yeah, if you’ve got a high-paying job then you have the means to not have to prioritize work. Hopefully, that remains constant over the next several decades.
But how many Gen Z’ers are in that position?
We keep seeing articles about Gen Z’ers not being able to afford rent, let alone food and other basic comforts. They are, or will be, forced to put work first. Not just working harder to get the luxuries of their grandparents or parents, but working harder to scrape by.
And I don’t even see and end to this. Corporations will eventually abolish retirement, because very few will be able to retire the way things keep going.
I think the idea is that a lot of people prioritize only their work. The whole hustle grindset thing, working obscene hours to try to get rich. Instead of doing that, seeing that whole rat race for what it is, doing enough work to get by, and then actually enjoying your time elsewhere seems to be what this is advocating for.
I think the idea is that a lot of people prioritize only their work.
Is this really a thing? Has it ever been for the masses?
Sure, people might prioritize work over anything else when they are young, but that’s often necessary to secure a future.
Other people live to work, but that’s pretty rare.
Instead of doing that, seeing that whole rat race for what it is, doing enough work to get by, and then actually enjoying your time elsewhere seems to be what this is advocating for.
I thought that what most people do. Does anyone actually believe that working hard at their low-paying job is going to make them rich? I thought that idea was dead decades ago.
Just look at the hustle grindset, or sigma grind, or whatever you want to call it. No, most people aren’t working 120 hours a week at a McDonald’s, but a lot more are getting multiple jobs, side hustles, etc to get to “get ahead” in the game.
To get ahead or to get by? Nobody who’s grinding two or three jobs is wealthy, and I think they’re only doing it to pay the bills because a single job doesn’t cut it anymore.
I’ve spoken with uber drivers who already have a “good job” but they need money to support their parents who are living with them, perhaps multiple kids, etc. It really sucks to be in that situation because work is all you do.
Do the minimum to put the food you like on the table, to afford a place to live, and then fuck off for the rest of the time. No OT, no projects outside of work hrs, no checking email overnight. Do your job, to the level that is strictly required, and reprioritize yourself any other time.
I never said you’d be able to comfortably retire. That’s another part of it. The younger generations know they won’t retire at all, or at a reasonable time, so just do your 40, get enough to live, and go do something actually fulfilling.
So because the generations before them made the wrong choice, they have as well?
I’m not punishing younger generations, I’m saying that they’re even more screwed than previous generations, so they’ll still need to work hard… it just won’t get them any luxuries.
If my kids live with my my whole life I am A-OK with that.
You might be, but not everyone wants that, especially in homes where there is no separation (like no basement apartment). That could be a nightmare for both parents and the adult child.
Hi Gen Z here I got diagnosed with Complex PTSD and Psychosis after a very awful and abusive work environment that’s ended in the Ministry of Labour thinking of fining the employer and me suing them for reprising against me for calling the ministry to get the abuse to stop. It has nothing to do with money it has everything to do with being treated with respect and not getting abused. And these employers wonder why no one wants to work for them if they’ll just come out with a mental health, psychiatric or psychological disorder
OF COURSE we prioritize life over work. Normal people always have. That doesn’t mean we don’t work. What is life without work? Amusing ourselves to death?
It’s the imbalance that’s always been the problem. People want to work, but many have to work to survive. So every day is a struggle for survival. It’s no wonder we’re seeing a rise in anxiety disorders, depression, suicide, and general health decline across the board. Some day every late stage capitalist society will normalize the kind of work culture we see in China, South Korea, and Japan, where people are worked to death and have no time for themselves. No time and no safety net for starting families. And paid just enough to get by, not to thrive.
I’m with the younger generations here. I’d rather amuse myself to death than work myself to death.
“You better start swimming or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times, they are a-changin’”
-Dylan
Everybody, everybody has to work to survive, from aboriginal people, to the most developed country, to the most socialized country in the world. It has always been thus, and that does not explain rising anxiety, depression, suicide, or health decline.
Abuses of workers and exploitive attempts to move toward a serfdom where no worker owns anything have existed as long as humans have been selfish. It’s not the result of a political system.
The French in the 1700s didn’t lay down and amuse themselves when exploited. Neither did the American colonies. Neither did Russia. Neither did China. It might be time to stop dropping out, give up on comfort, and start the hard work of getting shit fixed.
Hey everybody, you’re anxious and depressed because you know you have to do something about it and you don’t want to. Maybe you even know you’re going to let it happen.
But seriously, what’s supposed to change? It’s there going to be a friendly helpful Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos or even Elon Musk? Honest public-minded politicians?
Look at Germany right now. HUGE protests.
You aren’t powerless. You just aren’t doing anything.
I just saw Docs, nurses and staff who had pensions for 30+ years just get butchered as the new Hospital system took over. Routed it all to standard 401ks. Why put your soul into a company. They will never come through. That ship has sailed.
My only hope is people look around at the fact that one of the few ways to still get a pension is through union work, and the current unionization wave continues into something bigger, better, and greater than we've had in the past.
That’s one of the risks of not being unionized. My employer can’t touch my pension (not that they would want to since they all came up from the union rank and file too) because it’s all managed through our union contract and there’s no chance in hell that we ever approve a contract that gives them that kind of control.
Even that isn’t complete protection. The government can always change the rules as they go. Not to mention a complete breakdown of society wouldn’t exactly do wonders for pensions and 401k’s either.
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