Yeah, I think the left wing generally espouses tolerance and equality, so anyone saying "hey, this group is being marginalized, we should fix that" should naturally find a home in the left wing. The right wing is more about rigid hierarchy and "this is the way the world is ordered, don't challenge it".
I appreciate that they try to highlight some male issues. But they subjugate them to feminist ideology, which I think is the wrong approach. They control the conversation very tightly and do not allow general criticism of feminism (especially the widespread misandry), nor specific topics such as legal paternal surrender. For that reason I consider the MensLib sub "controlled opposition". Even tho many members may have the heart in the right place, there is a high degree of self-censorship going on. Or you find yourself, as I did, quietly shadowbanned.
Thank you for sharing your viewpoints (side note, this is my first time really reading reddit in a while and it's crazy how many accounts have been overwritten or [deleted]). I was active in the early redpill community, years ago, and watched in horror as it got taken over by right-wing protofascists. So I'm a little gun shy when it comes to men's spaces. I think, getting meta for a moment, there's something to be said for policing your own community a little over-zealously to keep out the misogynists...but then again, there's also something to be said for being honest in your beliefs, even if that means alienating an ally (like feminists).
I've subscribed and I'll keep a close eye on this community. You've got a difficult job; there's a lot of angry, misogynistic men and angry, misandrist tumblristas in the fediverse who would love to take over the discussion.
Hopefully it will be like the subreddits he moderated. They turned out quite nicely. Unapologetically advocating for men from an egalitarian perspective while also being unapologetic about defending against the misandrist detractors, a large number of whom call themselves feminists and leverage feminist ideology.
I'm in a similar boat as you, and watched TRP go from "this is info men need to know, and soon" to religious conservative grifters, and similarly upset about it
And then watching menslib and others get setup so men could talk in "approved" ways
But all of that makes it even more important to me not to abandon other labels to grifters. It just makes it easier for them to dissipate any momentum we might accrue for social change.
If the moderation is bad, it's a lost cause. The mod here removed a couple of comments I had calling out blatant misogyny, while leaving the misogyny. This space is doomed. I'm not wasting any more effort on it.
I have removed comments for personal attacks, as per our rules.
Where is the misogyny? I mean, it is possible I may have missed it, as I am human and fallible. But make sure to differentiate feminism from women. Feminism is an ideology, not a gender. Attacks on women as a gender will not be tolerated.
So, if you want to call out bad behavior here, call out the specific statements ("That statement is misogynistic" or "Saying that is bigotry"). Do not use personal attacks ("You're a misogynist" or basically any form of "you are X") as they will be removed.
They hosted an AMA with a guy who minimizes/denies that men can be victims of women aggressors. They tried to walk back some of the stuff he said, but didn’t outright apologize. They censor/minimize/deny a lot of other men’s issues. They are counterfeit, perhaps even a calculated disinformation campaign to co-opt the men’s movement.
Feminism is obviously NOT organized enough to do anything like that, which tells me you're too paranoid to be worth listening to. Take a chill pill dude, not everything is a conspiracy.
I’m not sure how you got that from my comment that I was talking about feminism as a whole. You asked what we think about r/MensLib and that’s what I answered.
However, I did address feminism as a whole in the post I just made in this magazine.
And here I thought you were against the whole "never say anything negative about any member of our community, no matter how wrong they are" moderation stance that most feminist communities use.
If you don't nip the "it's a conspiracy" types in the bud, you become the nazi bar. Because there's a very thin line between "it's a conspiracy", "this is all their fault", and "we should do something about those people".
Calling another community "counterfeit" and a "calculated disinformation campaign" is dangerous, inflammatory language. If the mods or the community don't call it out, it encourages worse things to be said.
Not to mention it's clearly not even close to the realm of reality. It's not a rational statement at all. Pointing that out is not a personal attack.
Anyway, I'm not signing up to fight a losing battle against incel types taking over this space, so if this is how it's gonna be, I'm out.
We don't accept calling members of this community "too paranoid to be worth listening to". That is a personal attack. And we don't call them incels either. This is a place for civil discussion. Not for calling each other names. Our sidebar specifically states: "Attack the argument, not the person."
Just curious, is it possible to see Kbin comments/posts that were deleted by a user or moderator like Removeddit for Reddit (supposing they haven't been archived to the wayback machine)?
There is modlog (linked in the sidebar), but it doesn't appear to give access to the full comments, just the first couple of lines or so, unless it's a very short comment.
Probably because of the endorsement of Lemmy by subreddits, which has been far greater than the endorsement of Kbin. Lemmy's also just been around far longer than Kbin. Those server issues that Kbin encountered during the whole explosion of users also likely slowed down growth a bit. Even with Lemmy's bot problem I think these have made it grow faster anyway.
I also think some of the growth of Lemmy is the ability to get the project to a functioning stance. The start of Kbin still seems a little rocky, but getting better.
Most people heard about Lemmy on reddit, and heard about kbin on lemmy, possibly after they already made an account.
Im not going to not interact with Lemmy because of its developers but it was enough I decided id rather not be tied exclusively to their tankie ass politics.
You seem to have an extremely specific take on men's issues, insisting you're not one of those men's rights guys but nonetheless taking a dim view of feminism except when you deem it sufficiently egalitarian and uncritical, I dunno about grabbing the whole concept/namespace of "men" and dedicating it to that. But ya did it, so good luck with it.
What exactly should we have done then? I only claim to speak for myself; in an ideal world I would love to work with feminists, but we're having conversations here that are not permitted in feminist spaces, so we need our own space for that. I hope you'll be open minded and do a little reading here to see what we're about.
insisting you're not one of those men's rights guys
MRAs seek gender equality before the law and full human rights for men, MRAs are a branch of egalitarianism. If you think there's something wrong with that, that's your problem.
This place on Kbin already seems to have more activity than the old r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates did. That place is basically dead now. It's a shame it fractured the community, but at least this place won't be upended in the future by a greedy and clueless corporation.
Agreed. Worst case scenario if we were kicked off of here (which I don't think will happen. we're not a hate sub), we could migrate to a dedicated instance hosted by one of our own members. But I don't think that will ever be necessary.
Can't tell you how many admin responses i've gotten that said "Hate or bigotry towards men is not covered by our anti-discrimination or hate speech policies. Please read our policies before submitting a report about hate speech."
Yeah at some point I just have to laugh about it or I'd lose my mind. So seeing the destruction of Reddit is immensely gratifying. I hope all social media users migrate to the Fediverse eventually, and I also hope that more people will just publish content on their personal websites/blogs instead of posting exclusively on social media.
The more you call it a Reddit alternative, the more people will stop migrating over as the Reddit outrage cools down (and as much as spez can go fuck himself, he's right, it will pass). I think Mastodon had the same issue at the time of the Twitter migration, but lately it's been focussing more on the fact that good instances provide a nicer small community feel that's more reflective of the state of Twitter in 2008-2012 or so.
Advertise the community, not the drop-in replacement for another platform that will always be larger and more mainstream.
Let me preface this by saying that I disagree with your viewpoint in its entirety, and that I am not an admin nor an instance moderator on Kbin.
Here’s the thing. If your intention is to come into Kbin, or Lemmy, or any other space here, and start spouting your viewpoint anywhere and everywhere - for example, in Pro-Trans spaces, or in spaces that have nothing to do with gender, you can expect some heavy pushback, including (likely) removal from those spaces. If your intention is to come in here and find or create a community that is conducive to posting about your viewpoint, you probably won’t really have much trouble.
You sound like someone who is looking to make trouble, though, which is the only reason I can see for you to have posted this in this particular manner. If that’s your intention, I think I can safely say, on behalf of the Lemmy / Kbin community, fuck right off. There’s plenty of Lemmy instances that you can join that won’t kick you out for this viewpoint, so probably go find one of those.
One thing I suggest is:
You're trying to get something working but it isn't going anywhere? Try again later.
First, because of the obvious calming down, since stress can affect the person's capacity to solve problems.
Second, I've noticed how many things on Linux have some degree of similarity and/or relation to one another. So trying other things in the meantime can give you the needed insight for solving a previous problem.
And don't skip over reading things! I also run Arch with KDE and honestly with almost all problems I have, if I carefully read through either the Arch Wiki (this will probably be your most valuable tool) or the error message that comes up, the answer is usually in there somewhere, it just needs digging up.
Also: if something with a GUI crashes and doesn't give an error message, try running it in the terminal. So like, if Firefox crashes and doesn't give any info, try opening up a terminal and running firefox from there and the terminal will tell you everything that's going on. (It'll be a different command if you're using a flatpak but that's the general idea.)
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