Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x03 "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"

::: spoiler Logline La’An travels back in time to twenty-first-century Earth to prevent an attack which will alter humanity’s future history—and bring her face to face with her own contentious legacy. :::

Written by David Reed

Directed by Amanda Row

Note: This is a second attempt, as technical difficulties were preventing people from seeing the original discussion post. Apologies to the people who were able to comment in the original.

plasmoidal ,
@plasmoidal@startrek.website avatar

Just here to note two details I appreciated:

  1. La'an still doesn't know what a Romulan looks like after her adventure. The only one she met was surgically altered to look human, although Sera did drop a hint by complaining about the ears. Still, there's plenty of aliens with non-human ears, so not really much to go on.
  2. If she was paying attention, though, La'an did get another clue about Romulan physiology: When she shot Sera, the blood spray was green! Of course, Sera remembered her grandma's old recipe for molecular solvent, so La'an may have thought that was the reason for the coloration.
CynicalStoic ,

Really enjoyed this episode! Wasn’t quite sure where it was going at first but just went along for the ride and ended up really liking it. Refreshing to see a good temporal mechanics Star Trek episode again.

I’m not 100% sold on new Kirk yet but I also don’t dislike him either. It’s kind of surprising given how well Ethan Peck fits as Spock, I would have thought that Kirk’s casting would be equally spot on.

Still, curious to see where this goes, definitely loving the ride!

zalack ,
@zalack@kbin.social avatar

I feel like he fits the like... platonic ideal of Kirk, but he's not doing a William Shatner impression the same way that Peck is doing a Leonard Nimoy impression.

He's doing his own interpretation of the same character on the page.

StillPaisleyCat ,
@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website avatar

I didn’t expect to like this episode as much as I did.

Wesley’s Kirk is growing on me, and I give the EPs credit for using the alternate timeline Kirk’s to let his performance coalesce. I also like the deft weaving of the crazy car driving, heartbreaker Kirk with the think five steps ahead genius that he also had to be.

The acknowledgement in-universe that the timeline and humanity’s development has been interfered with is entirely credible given the accretion of temporal incidents across every era of the franchise.

I’m not sure how I feel about it giving comfort to those who feel so strongly that this isn’t the same timeline as the original TOS one. (I see some chortling on this point elsewhere.) Likely the temporal physics of this is best left for a deep dive /c/Daystrom Institute discussion, but I prefer hold to a view that this is absolutely still the same Prime timeline but that the timeline itself has been perturbed repeatedly even if the key events have kept their integrity. In fact, the Romulan temporal agent, while not a reliable narrator, gave credence to the idea that the Prime timeline had proven unexpectedly robust against major intervention by humanity’s enemies.

I was delighted to see DTI show up and be named. It seems all of a piece of DTI’s rigidity that they would leave La’an alone to deal with the trauma. It does however mirror Pike’s own experience in sealing his future with the time crystal. One senses that there must be some kind of intersection or mutual revelation to come, leaving aside the Chekhov’s gun of the temporally dislocated watch.

Knowing that Anson Mount had to relocate to Toronto with his wife and newborn explains why episodes featuring others in the ensemble were front loaded for this season. He’d said before he committed to the show that creative conversations would be needed as he wasn’t wishing to repeat the production experience he had in Discovery season two. A creative conversation with the EPs that limits a principal character’s presence is fairly extraordinary, but Mount seems to have done it in a way that’s generous to the rest of the ensemble.

With an ensemble so strong, and as we didn’t see as much of Chapel or Una as we would have liked last season, I’m fine with waiting to see more Pike later in the season. It sounds as though we have a Spock focused and an Ortegas to come before some big ensemble pieces in the back half.

CeruleanRuin ,
@CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one avatar

That really explains a lot. Kudos to the production for really playing well to their constraints like this.

NuPNuA ,

If anything doesn’t this prove that this does take place in the same timeline as TOS but that timeline is in flux due to time travel and interference?

StillPaisleyCat ,
@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website avatar

That’s exactly it.

MooseGas ,
@MooseGas@kbin.social avatar

I am so late to this. I was up at the cottage for the long weekend and missed the episode until today.

Khan could be my neighbour.

SSH_2023 ,

So does this retcon how Khan comes to power in the 1990s and pushes the eugenics war further in the timeline? I have seen some people say this was done to keep the timeline consistent with ours.

StillPaisleyCat ,
@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website avatar

Yes. Time heals.

Key events are preserved but the details may change and slip a bit. The details can include slippage in the dates.

The 90s date was implicitly overwritten by TNG’s premiere where Roddenberry himself decided to shift WW3 to the mid 21st century.

People had head canoned the link between the Eugenics wars and WW3 out of existence, while also ignoring that TOS implied Warp was discovered in the late 20th century.

Accepting that temporal incursions alter the Prime Timeline just makes sense of events like Voyager Endgame.

Argonne ,

Is La’an supposed to be stronger than regular humans? She gave that Romulan some good ass kicking. That’s really impressive

Lamhfada ,

I think the end episode before this kind of implied that La’an feared or suspected that some of her augmented genes were active in her conversation with Una’s lawyer.

Argonne ,

Good point. Hope we get to explore more of her powers

Spoken_Weakley ,

“This was supposed to happen in 1992!”

Is that a reference to how the eugenics wars were supposed to happen in the 90’s but obviously those came and went so they’re softly retconning when the eugenics wars took place?

XiberKernel ,

I kinda like this theory. The temporal wars are still affecting the timeline, but time is pushing back to repair the timeline. In-universe reason to both retcon and act as a story element as well (with hopefully a Wesley Crusher appearance at some point?)

Lando ,

This was a classic Star Trek episode.

chronicledmonocle ,

Man poor La’an. That ending broke my heart.

Hypersapien ,

Out of all the time travel episodes Star Trek has ever done, in how many of them have they gone back in time to when the episode first aired.

I can remember two where they didn’t.

jalanhenning ,
@jalanhenning@startrek.website avatar

A little remarked side effect of time travel is that it causes infatuation (Kirk, in "City on the Edge of Forever") and horniness (Spock, in "All Our Yesterdays"). La’An experienced both!

Edit: I forgot about Bashir and Jadzia in "Trials and Tribble-ations" but honestly they just seemed to be acting in character!

FormerGameDev ,

La’An fell head over heels for someone who had never heard of her. Absolutely makes sense. An entire lifetime of being treated differently, because everyone knows. Even if they don’t treat her negatively, they still know.

This Kirk was the first person since grade school that she met someone who didn’t know.

Absolutely makes sense.

CmdrShepard ,

Plus it ties in with the previous episode where she and Number One reflect on their augments, family history, and years of feeling shame about who they are.

Leer10 ,

This came out of left field for me but I really love La’An as a character and I want her to be consoled so hard 🥺

CaptainProton ,

I really like Paul Wesley’s portrayal and the way Kirk is written. Honestly I can imagine this as a TOS episode with Shatner and co. Some more thoughts:

While I was not sure about the chemistry between the two main characters, I bought into their romance and I especially liked the final scene with La’an: it was an earned moment and the actress was very effective in her delivery. I wish the two had spent some more time talking about what reality they should preserve but I guess saving your brother’s life is a good enough reason to risk everything. I would’ve done the same, tbh. Time shenanigans needn’t be explained, honestly I can believe that the Augment Wars were so destructive that we don’t know many things about the period; could’ve been in the 90s, could’ve been in the 21st century, there are real life examples of such gaps in the historical record, after all (and don’t tell me Sarah Silverman was around for the rise of Khan). Still, a welcome reference.

I love Pelia, the accent, the delivery, the character backstory, it’s all really good and she is a very nice addition to the cast. I laughed when she didn’t know anything about engineering but it makes perfect sense. Imagine going back in time and asking a 10 year old Einstein to explain relativity to you!

With the positive out of the way, I have to say that I liked the first half of the episode more than the second for the following reasons:

I think they broke into that facility pretty easily. Why did the door open in response to La’an’s DNA? Isn’t Khan just a little kid? Can he enter and leave as he pleases? I thought he was like an experiment they are trying to keep under wraps.

I did not like the antagonist lady and I especially don’t like the suggestion that Romulans have been secretly trying to keep humanity from reaching greatness. I always thought that one of the most important messages in the franchise was that humans were able to rise above their flaws and create a utopia but now it’s the Romulans who were keeping us down and we managed to reach the stars even against these odds. How inherently great humanity is… Not a good message, imo, but perhaps the antagonist lady was simply exaggerating.

Overall a good episode. Kinda lost me in the second half but the final scene was a strong conclusion. Honestly, I can see myself re-watching this in the future.

FormerGameDev ,

I think they broke into that facility pretty easily. Why did the door open in response to La’an’s DNA? Isn’t Khan just a little kid? Can he enter and leave as he pleases? I thought he was like an experiment they are trying to keep under wraps.

Seems Khan and all the other kids are probably derived from older Noonien-Singh DNA, considering the name of the facility.

Manabi ,
@Manabi@startrek.website avatar

I think it was less humanity's greatness that allowed them to reach the stars in the alternate timeline and more of having no choice but to do so. Earth was a wasteland and they needed more resources beyond what was available in the rest of our solar system. La'an told Kirk at one point that he could be an explorer in her timeline, heavily implying humanity doesn't do that in his.

lwaxana_katana ,

This was definitely my favourite episode of the season, and possibly of the series. I thought Kirk was badly cast, but actually after seeing him in this episode, I get it. He is not our Kirk, but he actually does bring something very Kirk-ish to the role that I hadn't appreciated previously.

arkclr ,

That is an excellent way of stating it, re Kirk. He wasn't doing it for me, and I thought I had it figured. He looks like Pine, who tried to mimic Shatner's mannerisms, but didn't really deliver the Shatnerisms. Here I was able to accept him as his own thing, and it was fine.

UESPA_Sputnik ,
@UESPA_Sputnik@lemmy.world avatar

[Copying my post from the original thread and adding something to the bottom]

Christina Chong absolutely killed it, especially in that final scene. Imagine finding someone you can connect to for the first time in your life, and immediately lose them. It even makes someone who is usually very unemotional crack.

Also, Pelia is such a delightful character. Great addition to the show.

Other than that I’m not really sold on the episode. It’s over an hour long and it did feel (too) slow and meandering at times. And I feel as if it just existed to shove in Kirk once again (and once again in an alternate timeline scenario to stick to the Trek canon) and explain the postponement of the Eugenics Wars by some Temporal Cold War shenenigans.

Final nitpick: how can Spock exist in the alternate timeline if humans and Vulcans are enemies?

Others wrote about how it was interesting that La’an had to choose to keep baby tyrant Khan alive for the greater good (of the future paradise Earth). And I agree that it’s an interesting conundrum – but that was given so little space in the episode that it fell entirely flat for me. La’an found out early on that Kirk didn’t know Noonien-Singh but that plot point was dropped for 30 minutes and only brought up again in the final minutes. In that aspect it reminded my of “The Elysian Kingdom” last season where nothing happens for 45 minutes and the interesting stuff comes out of the left field at the very end of the episode.

Maybe I’m being too harsh (I’ll rewatch the episode in a couple of days together with a friend) but for now I’d say this was one of the weaker episodes of the series.

williams_482 ,
@williams_482@startrek.website avatar

I thought this episode was fantastic.

The pacing was good, the interactions between Kirk and La'an were fun, and the closing acts were a real gut wrench. Being forced through such a traumatic situation and completely unable to talk with anyone about it is a piece of the time travel/Prime Directive secrecy that Star Trek hasn't really dug it's teeth into before, and there's clearly something very powerful to work with here.

Also, hilarious use of their immortal chief engineer. In retrospect, no surprise that someone in that position wouldn't maintain exactly the same hobbies and skills throughout the centuries, and also no real shock that this particular individual got her jollies stealing priceless artwork. And then arguing statute of limitations when she is challenged on it centuries later? Brilliant.

I do not give the slightest of damns about a TOS one-liner placing Kahn in the 1990s. This is a good story which wouldn't work properly otherwise, and that was a poor choice from writers who couldn't have possibly known better. Absolutely do not care, and so much happier for it.

After a fairly meh first episode, SNW S2 has reeled off a pair of real bangers. Looking forward to the next installment.

goGetF1 ,

But they also managed to explain the moving of the Eugenics Wars as the result of time hijinks, some of which we’ve seen on screen. I think this is a credible explanation Star Trek can use for TOS retcons without being too dismissive of canon.

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