You had me until missing an interview is not your fault. When I got an interview I wrote that date and time on everything. I couldnt go five feet without a reminder. If you miss an interview (barring medical or personal emergency) that’s on you, but I guess that’s an unpopular opinion.
not really the main point or any reason to dismiss the whole thing. we aren’t playthings for corporations, the whole interviewing facade where we’re supposed to be dutiful and perfect and company-fearing is dumb
Even further, each site is unique in features, layout and design. Its a dice roll how youll be contacted or how you set reminders in app. if they have a date/time, put it in your calendar app, dont rely on their garbage.
Edit: some dont notify you they even made an event for you, welp your screwed.
I read it differently. It’s an ambience. The author is not taking off actual interviews being scheduled.
Rather, replies to your applications are so few that you end up getting frustrated. Because of that, in the long run, you forget checking the website. Now, if in the meanwhile you get a reply, nobody’s home to receive it.
You miss it not because you’re lazy or careless, but because you’re human and there’s so much you can do to keep hoping.
This has happened to me and there’s some confusion in the comments so I’ll attempt to clarify here, it’s not missing an interview in the way we’re perceiving it. What happens is;
On indeed, you can pre-fill out an application and “quick apply” to most jobs, and that’s the entire application process for that job. If you’re accepted for an interview, they will message you on the indeed app or maybe via email.
But many of the jobs you can apply to on indeed don’t accept quick apply and instead direct you to their website, where you apply again, and from then on must log into their site frequently checking back for responses, potential invites to interviews, recommendations for other openings etc.
So they’re not missing an interview they’ve been notified about, they’re missing the notification of an upcoming interview because they didn’t check the site that notified them.
Is that still on them? Yeah, technically. But many, many sites are now doing this on indeed. Back when I was applying it didn’t take me long to be signed up for indeed + DG + Walmart+ Amazon + UPS etc etc.
I’m sure I’m signed up to at least 50 different sites. 99% of those sites will never notify me of anything aside from other job openings.
So you get forgetful sometimes, checking 50 sites a day can do that to you.
Then one of them offers you an interview on their site, but you only checked 40 sites today and spent the rest of your time mass quick applying to 100 new jobs instead of checking the remaining 10 sites that had a .001% chance of actually offering you a job anyway.
I mean, yeah, the blame is still on them. If you’re in desperate need of a job with nothing else going on then you should be religiously checking every site you’re signed up with. However, I can see forgetting to check one or two as well because there are a fucking lot and it’s a lot to remember.
I remember hating to apply to jobs that required me to use their site so, so badly, because they ALREADY had my application from indeed but instead of just using that app they want me to arbitrarily sign up for their site instead, that’s likely much more of a hassle than indeed, and add ANOTHER fucking layer of difficulty to just getting a damn job.
A better way to get employees seems to be to just accept quick applications from indeed, message them on the app and just set up a damn interview. With indeed available I’m not sure why these companies even use their own sites.
I hire in technology. I can easily spend weeks filling a position. Candidates lie through their resumes and interviews 20 wasted interviews = 30 hours cultivating those interviews I have about a 26% no show, no response to missed interviews. Posting a job equals literally hundreds of emails, recruiters, off shore companies, and badly done resumes.
Headhunters talk big and deliver bottom barrel candidates, no one likes recruiters, so great candidates hardly use them.
When I use tools like one way interviews so I can screen hundreds of candidates, the feedback is “it’s not personal enough”, then no show on an appointment THEY MAKE
I’m a small business, my resources for hiring aren’t extensive.
Just want to give some flavor to the other side of this.
Do you get the impression that these are real humans lying to try and get the job themselves? Or is it just spam from vendor agencies conjuring hypothetical candidates that they in turn will need to find, taking a cut in the process.
It’s really hard to say. Generative AI can pump out unlimited resumes and fake human data to make everything look real. I don’t know of a service that screens candidates or vets them to make sure they an actual human. It’s kinda tinfoil hat to think hiring agencies are flooding the market with fake, so that people like me will just give up; but… i mean… maybe?
I dont see how that could work. Spamming with ai generated resumes are easy enough but finding a candidate who would accept their offer to just lie and go through with it serms impossible and never heard of. I dont know how these applying process works exactly so is it possible that the service is automatically applying for people based on their relevance? Just a guess tho.
Yeah whenever I go for an interview for a public position, I try to be mindful that the person or people I’m speaking to are probably exhausted. But unless you’ve got a reference to a private posting directly through a back channel, then I don’t think there’s any way around it - hiring for a role is hard. But ideally, you’ll have the person for years if you can retain them, so doing it right is worthwhile.
Ok, but - and please don’t think I mean this in an offensive way, I am asking this in the most naive way - isn’t that your whole job? I get that it is annoying, but you don’t waste 30 hours, you just work 30 hours. Hours that you get paid for and hours that you would use to do the same job/try to hire for another position otherwise. Of course you could get more done (i.e. more people hired) in a unit of time, but at the end of the day that’s not your problem really, is it? You did everything correctly. You still get your hours paid.
Ok, but - and please don’t think I mean this in an offensive way, I am asking this in the most naive way - isn’t that your whole job? I get that it is annoying, but you don’t waste 30 hours, you just work 30 hours. Hours that you get paid for and hours that you would use to do the same job/try to hire for another position otherwise. Of course you could get more done (i.e. more people hired) in a unit of time, but at the end of the day that’s not your problem really, is it? You did everything correctly. You still get your hours paid.
I didn’t say waste, and my job is managing and engineering. If I were in HR maybe. Even if I were a hiring manager, it’s still a lot of time into finding resources, and anyone in that situation gets frustrated.
You mentioned 20 wasted interview, therefore my wording. Admittedly I read over the part that it isn’t your only responsibility. I can imagine how frustrating it is! Even if this is all you do all day.
But still, you get paid for this. (I once had a well paid bullshit job and understand how draining it is to focus on ridiculous tasks that seem to go nowhere, you got my full sympathy here.) You go home at 5 pm and your day is done. Your paycheck arrives.
We as candidates don’t get paid. We put hours and hours into interviews and applications. It seems in IT it is common to just click on direct apply on linkedin. How I envy this! My husband just clicks on 100 applications and gets like 4-5 invites at least.
I work in the biomedical field/research (in Europe) and let me tell you, no one will even remotely consider me for an interview if I have the audacity to not send an application letter that is specifically tailored to the position. So, for every single job I am applying to I am spending at least two hours (if I am in a run and do a lot of copy pasting, let’s be real here, I often needed almost a whole day) to finish up the application alone. If I get an interview I have to take a vacation day to go interview. Maybe have a trial day if it is a lab based job (which of course is not paid). I have to do the reading on the company, what they do etc. I wrote a fucking application letter detailing how I identify with the companies values and how I have experience in this and that technique.
Then I come in and they haven’t even read my CV so far. They ask me basically no questions. They tell me info about their company that is on their webpage that I can recite. I ask them some questions. They seem to like me a lot. Then I go home. Then they ghost me. I don’t know if it is because I lack a PhD or because I am overqualified because I have an MSc. Or because they see a girl with a wedding ring on her finger in her late 20s and assume I will get pregnant soon. The ones that turn me down at least write a copy pasted email saying they chose another candidate. Vague and no details on what set us apart.
For all of this, for all the typing and reading and travelling and interviewing and trial days I am spending money and time. Time I do not get a salary. Time that is wasted and that I do not get paid for.
It is better in science jobs (there they seem to do very anal reading of everything, which I appreciate and I always get an offer) but corporate businesses are hell.
I was a software developer and I often interviewed prospective candidates by phone. It was hilarious how often I heard keyboard tapping in the background after asking a question, and sometimes I could hear other people whispering. I was like c’mon - I’m only phone interviewing to see if it’s worth our time to bring you in for an in-person interview. You’re not going to be able to Google shit (or have your friends do it) when you’re here, so this tactic is not going to land you a job.
You had me up until one way interview. I don’t respect any hiring manager that cannot face me in an interview. Never do one way interviews because there is no opportunity for the candidate to interview the company.
Look at it from the candidates point of view. You have a set of questions or a task you want us to take the time to complete. We do not have the option to ask you questions and see if it is a good fit. That is one reason why we see it as unfair.
Now I understand that you may have hundreds of applications, 24 hours in a day, and a deadline. I don’t have a better solution for you because I’ve never hired anyone, sorry. I feel for you but many people hate one way interviews.
I scare myself that I will miss recruiter appointments, I know that I would make a terrable canadate when I was (and still kinda am) going through mential issues.
Headhunters talk big and deliver bottom barrel candidates, no one likes recruiters, so great candidates hardly use them.
Thank you, thats good to know. Even worse are the orgs that “job hunt for the 3 legged deer of our society” . The corrupt ones will make you feel crippled. ironically, hurting your mential health, making you an unfit canadate and exasurbating the problem.
Been a software developer for 15 years. I’ve applied for hundreds of positions this summer and all of them either never call me back or say they are interested in other candidates. I actually fucked up two coding tests this week and I dunno anymore. I’m just so disappointed and money is starting to get tight, and I have a surprise medical bill for a biologic. I’m thinking when I can’t afford rent, I’ll just kill myself.
What’s worse is I did have a job for two months but I fucked it up and botched a production instance. They let me go a couple weeks later, I wasn’t a good fit. I wanted to die then, and the sensation hasn’t gone away either. I lie about it because saying you are suicidal is a great way to be rubber roomed.
Hey friend, I’m sorry that you’ve fucked up a bunch lately. I know the feeling. Just know that you are really valuable to your family and friends, and they’d be extremely hurt if you did do something like that.
Everyone is feeling so stretched right now, and you are not alone. But we will get through this, and things will get easier down the road.
I know it sounds stupid, but money is just… money. Yes we need it to survive in this day, but your life is worth so much more than a bit of cash or debt… and it sounds like you’re a smart person. So just know that those mistakes are a part of your journey, and a part of moulding you into the person you will be in a few years.
New guy botching a production instance, for a developer…isn’t your problem.
Sorry but that’s on them. You shouldn’t be able to deploy bad code to prod. Whoever approved the MR fucked up and you caught the blame. You’re better off without them.
Infra guys like me (networking) yeah, sure, because our test environment happens to also be our prod environment.
Almost never representative of the actual work and usually far more restrictive than the actual work too. (In that you can’t search, might be watched, etc)
I agree. It pains me that I have to ask them. The ones my company does are very restrictive and high pressure. I personally try to choose reasonable problems with realistic scenarios (especially when interviewing entry level folks). I also have lots of follow up questions that I like to think are well grounded on realism.
I personally give a complete pass for stuff like standard library functions and will outright tell the candidate about an available function if they’re unsure what it’s called or how its used. I’m testing problem solving and an understanding of language , fundamentals not their ability to memorize a standard library. I mean, heck, I can’t begin to count how many times I’ve had to google “[language] sort list”.
Honestly, it sucks to have to watch a candidate struggle. It’s awkward and not fun. I want to see the candidate do well. And heck, if they can’t do well, I want them to at least be able to make progress, because I know it would feel bad to feel like you bombed the interview. Sadly, the environment of tech interviews isn’t conductive to that. They’re stressful and sometimes perfectly qualified candidates do poorly simply because of nerves.
I feel like for software, the big barrier is getting past HR/recruiters. Once you get to talk to someone technical, it’s a lot easier. But hell if I know how the heck the non technical staff decides how to progress people.
I’ve done tech interviews. They’re leetcode, which isn’t great, but at least it’s fair. There’s no magic words there. I just want to know if you can reasonably approach a problem (and I don’t pick anything I couldn’t get hired on), can show problem solving skills, and show an understanding of algorithms and data structures. You don’t even need to solve the problem if you can come close and your thinking out loud shows good skills. And most definitely don’t need to be an optimal solution (though it helps).
But getting to the tech screen, I don’t even know. I’ve made internal referrals that never even get assigned to anyone, despite a glowing referral. Maybe it’s just super competitive. Maybe there’s a scarcity of low level positions (though I know many teams that are top heavy and only need low level positions). I really know nothing about what it takes to get to the tech screen level. But once you’re there, I really do think it’s a lot more reasonable (not at all perfect, but better).
I get the pain, but if you’re offered an interview and you forget to check what time the interview is scheduled for and you miss it, then that’s on you. Showing up to the interview on time is like step 0, the most basic requirement for obtaining a job. If you’re struggling with that step then at least part of the problem lies with you.
idk if you wanna interview me at least give me a call or at least an email, companies that just send you a notification to the website you applied through are dumb
Its basic respect and courtesy to email the potential employee. If you’re putting hoops to jump through with no actual incentive then you dont deserve employees.
Oh, in that case I agree with you. Although, if I were putting in all that legwork, I’d like to think I’d be checking my replies on a daily basis. But yeah, it’s pretty standard to email or call someone if you want an interview with them. LOL. Just arbitrarily throwing out a date and time means they don’t respect you or your schedule at all, and you probably don’t want to work for them.
I was applying for postdoc fellowships while doing a gig as an adjunct prof (do not recommend); I got an email from a PI who wanted to set up an interview, followed by couple more that told me that I need to respond to emails if I want to get a job anywhere in academia. All of these were delivered in the span of one lab session I was teaching. I told her as much and she told me I needed to stop wasting her time. I told her that, with that attitude, it looked like I dodged a bullet.
My last job was 8 hours of work and an hour commute each way, but it was by train so it wasn’t too bad since I could read my book or nap. Have to drive an hour or more each way is suicide-provoking for sure.
I am in this hell. Recent software engineering graduate, and i haven’t gotten any bites for a long while. I’ve got no idea what to do besides work on my personal projects in hopes that it catches the interest of some unicorn out there that will actually read my info.
If you haven’t already, make a condensed version of your CV in point form. Literally one page, no more. Clear headings (education, experience, skills) with a few key bullets (3-4 max) per heading.
Remember, this terrible situation is due in part to the fact that services like Indeed make employers think they shouldn’t have to invest in hiring at all, so they don’t . They’re lazy, so your approach has to adapt to that .
Hang in there, I’ve been where you are. You’ll get through it.
If you’ve got a degree, your institution’s job boards are lightyears better than Indeed. Keep working on the personal projects though, they help once you have an interview. ^.^
I have probably sent out a good 100 resumés over the past few months and have only gotten responses within the past few weeks. A good chunk of them did not bother notifying me that I was not being considered and I would only find out if I logged into their shitty portal.
I am no longer applying to jobs that do not lost their salary range. I had an interview the other day that was a complete fucking waste of time because at the end there was my salary was nowhere near what they could afford. They have been looking for months. They definitely need a reality check if they think they can pay next to nothing in the locations they are hiring in which are all high cost of living areas.
This is exactly what I’ve encountered. I only opened Indeed to see what ppl in my profession are being offered in other places. Places with affordable houses. I’m worried my living situation will become a problem in the area I live, it’s only getting higher.
Like you, I find employers are completely unaware of this and aren’t offering enough.
They are also asking for more qualifications than they are willing to pay for, so far I’ll bide my time.
The other annoyance is I can’t ask for any feedback on why my application was passed over.
One of the additional things that sucks is here in Australia if you’re unemployed and/or disabled you can sign up for Centrelink and do Job searching there. But it is just terrible, because not only do you have to look for a certain number of jobs (I think abled-bodied people can do 20 jobs per month, whereas I got to apply for 12 due to disability), but every 2 weeks you have to go in and spend maybe 10minutes or more traveling to the jobseeker place and tell them “no I haven’t heard back from anyone, yes I’ve applied for jobs, etc”.
On top of that, if you’re disabled you’ll get fucked over because you can’t work, you know you can’t work, but Centrelink refuses to put you on the National Disability Scheme because you’re not disabled enough (people who have missing limbs have been told that their missing limb will grow back, or you’ll grow out of it. Some disabilities aren’t even on it, like ADHD isn’t considered a disability and only “high functioning autism” is allowed). But you can be a part of the Disability Employment Scheme (DES) where you still have to apply for jobs, but not as much, but you get some benefits over being a regular Jobseeker.
Generally, the whole thing fucking stinks and I’m so thankful that I’m finally out of it. That and the fact that those receiving Jobseeker payments are being paid below the poverty line because the government refuses to put it up.
I just, ugh. Job seeking sucks, especially when businesses ask for 50million years of experience but it’s entry level. Or the fact to get experience you need to work in this field but to get in this field you need experience. Ugh.
While I do rant about jobseeking, I do appreciate the job provider I’m with (since I’m still in the probation period of this job). Like a previous one I was in honestly made me suicidal because of the things I had to do. And while my current provider still sucks (I am disabled and find walking tough, but they expected people to come back into the office, I couldn’t even do like one week phone call, one week go in like I was doing), but they make me less suicidal. That and they do offer things to me, like vouchers for ubers to work and they’re covering 3 driving lessons (haven’t had a lesson since way before the pandemic).
So yeah, being on Jobseeker is such a poverty trap. It’s made to feel like hell on Earth.
Can’t relate. I work in software dev, and had to do a bout of job applications over a few weeks a bit ago.
Nearly every single job responded back asap confirming they got my application.
Most of the declines emailed me back to inform me they declined a week or two later.
I got several interviews, looking to asap connect.
Most were normal and standard process. One was way too many steps and wasted my time.
I got three offers tabled, and all were fine to give me a day or two to mull it over.i accepted the best offer and total was only unemployed for about 5 weeks total.
What I can say is hot damn has ChatGPT made the application process take like 1/10th the work lol
Did I make a simple little copy paste for chatgpt to quickly construct my cover letters? You bet your ass I did.
Did one job call me out on it? Yes they did. And they liked it and expressed that having someone who was comfortable using AI tools was actually a plus.
I sent out an LOT more than 20 applications though. I was averaging about 6 to 7 a day over 2 weeks, so prolly close to 120+ applications total.
Really curious what the dead giveaway was for using chatGPT. I feel like most cover letters are already written to sound super flowery and exaggerated.
Coincidentally I created a ChatGPT account today for the purpose of saving time writing my cover letters. Do you mind sharing your wisdom with what works for you with your creation prompts?
<span style="color:#323232;">"In a moment I am going to ask you to generate a cover letter for me. However before that I want you to ask me any further questions that you need answered to help improve the quality of the output. My name is (name here), my address is (address), the company's address is (company address), and the job title is (job title).
</span><span style="color:#323232;">
</span><span style="color:#323232;">This is the job posting:
</span><span style="color:#323232;">(Paste the entire job posting here)
</span>
I have that whole thing in notepad filled out, copy paste the entire job posting in, then copy paste that whole thing to chatgpt.
It’ll then prompt you with a bunch of extra common questions you can answer to help flesh the cover letter out, you answer what you can, and it’ll generate.
Make sure to do a final pass cause it’ll hallucinate sometimes, and you can hit the regenerate button if needed if it hallucinated too bad.
Main hallucination to watch for is it just shoving extra facts in there that you didn’t supply. “I have an engineering degree” or whatever when you never told you you did lol.
A tip for anyone in the situation: when looking for a job on any website, if it has a ridiculous pay range, like 30k-140k, stay away. Usually some pyramid scheme, or scammy commission only sales job that you’ll never make anything from.
I’m sure some of these work out for some people, it has to. But realistically it doesn’t ever work out.
I’ve found jobs with good hourly salaries after bonuses, but the catch was that those bonuses were nearly impossible to reach. Keep an eye out for those, too!
Filter to “jobs that I can apply for/to from my phone”
I agree with the core of this post, just trying to help anyone frustrated with entering the same information over and over, or making single use accounts for applications, can’t stand that shit and it makes the whole process shittier. Plus, you can apply to much more stuff without fatigue, strengthening the chance you’ll hear back from somebody
I won’t touch Indeed, but I appreciate that you don’t have a choice in some industries.
I exclusively used “quick apply” systems when I was looking for a new role earlier this year, mainly via LinkedIn and Cord, and it was a much better experience. Fill everything in once, and then single click to send an application. There was the occasional redirect to a web form, less than half of which I filled in (as they were asking for things already in my application).
Recruitment desperately needs this kind of disruption. I hope the trend continues.
Are they still complaining no one wants to work? I thought that reversed last year. When they WERE complaining about that, it WAS pretty damn easy to get a job. For entry level stuff anyway. I had my pick of the litter, but now finding a better job is near impossible again, the way it was before COVID.
I heard someone IRL say it just last week. I think the issue is more specific to certain jobs or industries at this point, whereas before it was widespread and there were worker shortages in every field.
What I glean now is that a lot of the “no one wants to work anymore” issues are centered around low paying service jobs. Which in my mind tells me basically that people have skilled up to fill better paying roles, and the overall reduction in employable workers means there simply aren’t people willing to work those low paying jobs anymore.
It’s a great anti labor propaganda line. They will never stop saying it now. There’s a group of business interests that wouldn’t mind pushing labor rights all the way back to indentured servitude.
