Poor people should just simply try working for their father’s company for a year and then taking a VP position at a small fortune 500. I don’t understand why they won’t try that, and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Tsk tsk tsk.
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There’s so many other issues too, such as the fact that old job posts don’t really get removed, employers/recruiters also spam multiple websites with their job posts and forget to check them, and some of the job descriptions don’t even match what you go and sign up for.
No salaries mentioned on lots of posts, multi stage interviews that somehow demand your free time during work hours, so good luck interviewing for other roles while you have a job. Take home assignments that take multiple hours sometimes, sacrificing a whole evening.
Recruiters that will ask for all your information again, despite having found your phone number from your CV, and once you go through that, tell you they have nothing for you and that they’ll be in touch.
Questions that mean nothing in an interview, including acronyms I haven’t used or even heard of outside of interviewing for other jobs, because my job doesn’t need or use them, we just do the work.
Don’t forget the tech listings that require 5 years experience in a particular programming language when the language has only even existed for the past 2 years…
Catch-22 situations, where it’s impossible to meet the qualifications. 🤦♂️
During the interview they tell you it only requires 2 days a week in the office. You tell them you don’t have a car… they reply there are trains from where you live to where the office is located… you look it up and they’re right, it’s just a 2 hour commute each way. You start to think “8 hours a week, is like 1.5 hours a day for 5 days, could be worse…”. Then you realize their hiring process requires 3 more on-site interviews before even getting an offer.
Take home assignments that take multiple hours sometimes, sacrificing a whole evening.
Do NOT do this.
Taking a live proficiency test is one thing, particularly if you’re applying for more senior roles, but doing actual projects for free in your spare time should be a hard pass. Full stop.
Not doing a home assignment(or work test as we call them) would mean never getting a job within the industry I work in, or at least not within the country I’m in.
And as someone that have been on both sides of this they are a great tool especially as it gives something to focus on in a technical interview. Though I would say that a requirement for this is that you always give/get actual feedback.
I feel like these are the real issues - I can’t tell if OP is meant to be a joke … “You forget the check the website and you miss the time”. I mean, that’s on you. Also it seems to me very easy to know the words an interviewer wants to hear, the real danger is that the job IS NOT as advertised.
The number of interviews I used to it in on, and wonder WTF the interviewer was thinking… One asked a service designer “if you were a type of cake, what would you be?”
The only possible use I could imagine, was to test how people respond to irrelevant stupid questions, since that happens a lot in some workplaces. Do they get frustrated and make it awkward, or shrug it off politely.
Good point. So how would you say I did… was the frosting part too much? 😃
But really, I wonder if it’s also a neurodivergence test; in an actual interview setting, I’d probably tend to think about it seriously and answer sincerely, then follow up with details if prompted.
Haha, yeah you might be onto something there. It felt like a way to pull the rug from under people to see how they cope, which wasn’t nice. I try to put people at ease in interviews, rather than try to catch them out.
I was ambushed with a “so, what do you do for fun?” once and the sudden context switch made me pause for so long that I must’ve seemed like I had no life outside of work 😬
I was ambushed with a “so, what do you do for fun?” once
Same, I said “I like electronics and taking things apart”, for an IT position. Got the job, ended up on printer duty. That wasn’t what I meant by “fun” 😐
I would disagree, those issues are valid too. Why does every website needs its own account, phone number etc? I get so many spam calls when I start looking for a job because of this. Just e-mail me. I’m not going to check your website every day for 2 weeks just to see if you get back to me.
The spam calls also put less value on actually answering my phone, because half the time it is a spam call. Why does every recruiter need to call? Why does every site need a number when I just need one answer, yes or no. I have my CV, I have my skills on my CV, and with one reply I can send you a very short list of what I’m looking for in 2 minutes, not every job needs a 30 minute phone conversation only for the recruiter to decide they have nothing for me.
And yes, there are magic words the interviewer wants to hear as well. As someone who sometimes struggles in higher pressure situations (which my field does not require at all btw), and also struggles with using the correct vocabulary or recalling random phrases and key words they want to hear, it’s frustrating to no end.
Honestly, I feel this should have all been streamlined by now, especially when I’ve already worked somewhere for years and my company has been satisfied with my performance - why is this not enough? Why can’t this be quantified somehow? An alternative which very few companies do is give me a technical/practical interview that’s actually like the job as advertised. Much easier for remote roles, but can be done in person too. Let me do the job, show you I can do the job, and then you decide to hire me based on that.
I do relate to your last point though, the amount of unrelated riddles or whatever get asked to ‘see how I think’ or something is ridiculous. Even when I get the answers right, the interviewer themselves don’t seem sure. I don’t get it.
In my industry, practical interviews are very common, but they’re not always reliable. I can get as much from asking someone about their process and being talked through a case study they’ve chosen, as giving them a practical exercise to perform on the spot. I’d usually do both.
I’m not disagreeing with the overall inefficiency and frustration of the whole process, I’ve felt it on both sides. It’s messy - bad or overstretched HR teams, slow managers, unclear budgets, poor choice of tech platforms…
My last job was 8 hours of work and an hour commute each way, but it was by train so it wasn’t too bad since I could read my book or nap. Have to drive an hour or more each way is suicide-provoking for sure.
"the silence is deafening" sums up my job searching experience. I can apply to as many jobs as you'd like but I can't actually start working until the other side says yes. and they seem to not even register that my application has been sent. How am I supposed to work, if no employer ever even looks at my application?
I fucking hate that. If they need the position filled, should they not be checking each and every applicant? Why do I ALSO need to call the place after I sent in my application/resume?
Is that the case? What about companies that don't have a phone number and instead say to fill out their online form? Are you supposed to just hack them to get their number or something?
This is my experience too. I spent 5 months looking for a job on Indeed and LinkedIn but eventually got a job in a completely different field thanks to my father-in-law.
Yeah I’ve experienced the first one. I accepted a position somewhere else long before, but by the time one of the companies had gotten back to me, it had been 7 months since I applied.
Careful, if you talk about how the USA’s H1-B visa program is a steaming pile of horseshit designed to allow corporate America to commit fraud and give away 80,000 skilled jobs a year to underpaid imported workers instead of paying market rates to well-qualified US citizens and green card holders, you might get downvoted. Folks here have trouble with balancing their hatred of corporate America with their hatred of the word “citizen” being used unironically.
Well, problem 1 is using indeed. What an obsolete site for most places. But i get the joke.
Not that prospects are much better elsewhere. Like LinkedIn for instance with their “click here for instant apply” and then you see that you’re one of 50 people (today) to apply for this open role and some AI in the background estimated based on your profile that you have 22% chance of getting the job BUT if you pay for premium you can knock that 22% up to 50% and an AI writes you a better profile…
I really do feel sorry for the crap the boomer gen and even my generation (genx) has left every generation after.
Yeah there’s that about the dead ends. Been there as well. My own field now has a lot more gains to be had from networking. Past ones, not so much. Maybe it depends on the nature of the job as well? I’m not sure. I imagine it’s a lot more helpful in sales.
I’m not great at it myself honestly. I could really learn from my spouse. She’s an SME in a niche field and literally every job after the first one, she was recruited by someone in her network. But that’s neither here, nor there.
I got a lot of this advice trying to get into academia. From what I found, knowing someone somewhere is actively detrimental to getting a job. Not only will you not get a job because of your connections, people will avoid giving you a job because hiring from a network speaks ill of the academic rigor of the institution. Whether it’s real or not, the image is maximal meritocracy, and that means the traditional advice from the corporate world is useless.
Also, if you are the “first” in your family for something (first college grad/first grad school grad, etc.), you have a HUGE disadvantage to those who have family members that can give well-informed opinions and advice. This was especially true in law school - students with lawyers in their family did far better during and immediately after law school than those students (like me) who were first to graduate college, let alone first for an advanced degree. And by “far better” I don’t simply mean “daddy got them a great job straight out of law school,” I’m talking about better academic performance, better utilization of available school career resources, better networking skills, you name it.
Dude I got a PhD and tried to get a tenure track job. I’m from a family of dirt farmers and had no advice on how to break into academia. Your words couldn’t be more true.
People who have to work 40 hours a week, plus do their own cooking and cleaning, plus all their own errands, plus taking care of the kids or pets, don’t have time to network.
There’s a reason politics is filled with rich lawyers and finance people, and it because they have the luxury of networking.
People who have to work 40 hours a week, plus do their own cooking and cleaning, plus all their own errands, plus taking care of the kids or pets, don’t have time to network.
No, networking means maintaining healthy relationships with your peers, friends, and coworkers from all your previous jobs and telling people you’re looking for one.
If there’s no luck there, then yes, you suck it up and go to the gutter pile of Indeed, classifieds, and doing work you never wanted to do lol.
Depends on your level and job. Honestly I’m still going to say LinkedIn in most cases, if only because Its the professional social network. Companies can look you up, so you need a good profile to attract those recruiters that pay to find people. It’s a sick game, but at least now there are AI profile services that can help you get ahead.
Indeed is cheap and used by cheap recruiters to get the most applicants directed to some other job board that costs them near nothing to aggregate resumes. You can’t even be sure you’re using the company job site to apply in some cases. At least with LinkedIn you can do the searching for the real job post.
Glassdoor has got to be the worst name for a job site. Evokes the phrase “glass ceiling” which is not something that anyone wants to have at their job.
Yep. Comes down to money and they can’t make big money off you if you hide behind the great LinkedIn pay wall. Look, recruiters like everyone else are trying to milk every penny out of their sale (you). You say “top” but are they exclusive? Are you applying at the company portal? Can you find this job yourself and apply direct? Top recruiters doesn’t mean as much as is used to. Right now you’re one of 30 applicants being submitted by a semi-competent recruiter that uses a tool to evaluate how much your resume fits and how much profit they can make if they bring you in under the salary range.
Indeed is a crap job site used by cheap recruiters. at least with LinkedIn you’re better armed with searching.
I finally got to experience this from the inside. I was on the team that interviewed people to back fill my position after I was promoted. We didn’t interview 1 external candidate. Promoted someone from below and then hired a new entry level person. We realized our internal hire has less experience, but they were the safe fast option that could get started right away.
It’s so, so frustrating that so many places require a job to be posted even when there’s an internal candidate and it’s already been decided. I work in government where we’re often hard-required to post all jobs and it sucks to see so many people applying for a job when I know they absolutely will not be considered for the role.
In my experience, a majority of job postings are essentially fake because it’s already been decided, and I hate it.
Yeah, Karen. No one wants to work in the first place. You think you deserve employees who will accept crackers as payment for the joy and excitement of generating value for a company so you don’t have to?
Literally, people like rslash used to exploit whenever reddit tells stories (unclear if their even real) about karens demanding labor so cheap, these ‘people’ ask coerse people to work for them for less than half of what you’d expect from a gig or office job.
My hubby went in for an interview and was told he got the job so he told his other prospective employers that he was no longer interested. Before he could arrange a start date, they ghosted him. He tried to call but it went to an outsourced helpdesk that told him they would create a ticket and he would get a call back. No call after several days. He physically went into the place and the hiring manager seemed flustered that he was there and told him they would contact him. After two weeks from when he was told he would get the job, he finally got a hold of the guy he interviewed with and was told they gave the position to someone else because he was “unreachable”.
Problems like this are the reason why I don’t hold loyalty to any company unless they’ve proven their competency. The ones that are good rarely hire because the employees don’t want to leave.
Was scared of the same thing happening to me, was ghosted for 2 MONTHS and was about to start at a different place when they finally reached back with a bunch of excuses. The same company says they desperately need more workers lol
Yeah that’s why I hold off on turning down other offers until the last possible moment when I know 100% the new gig is locked down. Then you inform them as gently and kindly as possible to leave the door open if it doesn’t work out. Usually the good ones won’t take it personally and are open to working together in the future if you decide to leave.
That’s terrible, I hope it all worked out, but absolutely never say anything until you’ve both signed a contract unless you’re looking for a counter offer, which is risky AF.
People pull out of informal agreements all the time, it’s not an employer thing - legal issues, real estate, appointments, competition prizes, dates…
More than half of my recent applications all used the same workday application service, but you need a unique workday account for every fucking company. Why in the world is it not just a single account‽
there needs to be a common form for job applications like with college
they’re incentivized to make it as shitty as possible both for this rite of passage shite as well as de-incentivizing workers in general from switching jobs ‘too freely’. it helps retention knowing how fucking miserable the process is
Don’t use Indeed, dumbass. Talk to a headhunter. They get paid by employers to find you a job. Every single professional job I’ve ever had has come through a headhunter, and the jobs have been great.
I’ll second the using a recruiter point, I’ve seen it help people with MBAs going for Director jobs or people without a GED going for entry level menial labor roles. Worse case scenario they have trouble placing you but you get a professional who knows the local job market on your “team” who can answer questions for you. They only get paid if you get hired, but they want to get more business from companies so they have a vested interest in getting you hired in the right position.
When I was recruiting I was more likely to give an interview, even if it was a courtesy, to a recruiter candidate than a direct hire candidate because I knew they were likely pre-screened and 20 minutes talking to someone who may or may not be a great fit was worth it to keep the relationship with the recruiter. So if one of the recruiters presented you there was like a 75% chance I’d phone screen you even if my initial reaction would have been to pass you over.
A recruiter can be especially helpful if you’re moving industries or have a more “unusual” background (i.e. phd, foriegn work history, military - there are some great veteran focused recruitment firms in the US especially for JMOs) because they can help lay ground work and prep the interviewer on why /your/ unconventional background is actually a perfect fit.
It costs you nothing and some of the nicer firms will do interview prep and help with your resume formatting too.
If youre not sure where to start and are US based try Manpower or Randstad for decent general indutry full/part time recruiters. It’s FREE!
My experience (as someone that does not fit most normal job descriptions) is that recruiters cannot understand anything beyond “square peg in a square hole” jobs. They dislike having to get to know me, understand what makes me special, and then keeping an open mind for every possible opening. I don’t blame them - go for the low-hanging fruit first. But if they won’t help me, then they need to say so.
I am in this hell. Recent software engineering graduate, and i haven’t gotten any bites for a long while. I’ve got no idea what to do besides work on my personal projects in hopes that it catches the interest of some unicorn out there that will actually read my info.
If you haven’t already, make a condensed version of your CV in point form. Literally one page, no more. Clear headings (education, experience, skills) with a few key bullets (3-4 max) per heading.
Remember, this terrible situation is due in part to the fact that services like Indeed make employers think they shouldn’t have to invest in hiring at all, so they don’t . They’re lazy, so your approach has to adapt to that .
Hang in there, I’ve been where you are. You’ll get through it.
If you’ve got a degree, your institution’s job boards are lightyears better than Indeed. Keep working on the personal projects though, they help once you have an interview. ^.^
Oh man. I’m in my 40s, working full time in an office-based, professional role and renting is fucky even for someone who can prove a stable income. You go to look at a house, only to find 20 other people queued up waiting. You like the house, you offer to rent it, only to find that it’s been rented to someone offering £200 a month more than the list price.
Nowadays one way to do it is to record a video in selfie mode while you try on the frames and move your head around a bit, then switch back to your real glasses and watch the video.
Some glasses dealers now have apps which CG the frames in question onto your face, and the results are getting more impressive and less cartoony.
you were trying to be sarcastic, but instead you have revealed a major issue with the recidivism of homelessness and crime that affects every modern society.
you were trying to be sarcastic, but instead you have…
Lol no, I know better than trying to be sarcastic online, I was making the same point as you (although less eloquently). Wholeheartedly agree with what you said!
I am on lifelong disability which means I get a guaranteed amount of money each month for life.
No landlords will touch me, a person with a GUARANTEED INCOME.
However, if you have a job, that you can get fired from or quit the next day, they’ll accept you. Blows my fucking mind.
Btw, for anyone wondering, if I lose my job, the government will step in and give me money for my disability. If I have a job, they don’t give me money. If I have a shit job where I make a couple hundred per month, they’ll cover the difference. I don’t mooch off the government, but my point is that I’m lucky enough to have a safety net, and landlords are so dumb they run away from it.
No landlords will touch me, a person with a GUARANTEED INCOME.
However, if you have a job, that you can get fired from or quit the next day, they’ll accept you. Blows my fucking mind.
Exactly, it’s crazy. Some even go further and require you to earn 3x as much as your rent.
While I understand it’s a good rule of thumb to not spend more than 1/3 on rent … a good rule of thumb for THE RENTING PERSON, that is. Why would any landlord care if I eat oats or drive a lambo? As long as I pay my rent, what do they even care how much I have left?
And since rents have been rising more than wages, satisfying this unecessary demand becomes increasingly difficult.
Maybe it is because they are not rational homo economicuses. They find someone to rent their place anyways, so they can use their power to punish or reward people based on their societal ideals. Or simply have a say in what kind of people are allowed to live in that hood.
Years ago I rented to a section 8 tenant. She was a single mom, and my mom was a single mom, so I wanted to help her. The rent was guaranteed and I receive a check in the mail directly from the housing authority. However, the tenant never took care of the house. At times, it seems she was unemployed, but was still receiving the assistance, which was nice I guess. But I don’t know what she does with her time because you’d think she will at least try to make the place that she lives in as clean / nice as she can with her time. Unfortunately, I ended up having to pay over $10k to fix up my house after she left, and the home has a lot of random damages like broken window screens, big holes in the walls, etc. Never have those issues with other tenants.
Point is, many people who receive gov’t assistance never have their life together. And my experiences tell me to run away as fast as possible whenever I encounter them. As opposed to people who work hard for their money, they actually take care of the places.
You may be different, but again, once bitten, twice shy.
Tumblr post by user anotherchariotpulledbycats reading
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. The silence is deafening.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. Half of them require you to create an account on the company website. You have a trail of ghost accounts that will be used once and never again. You never receive a response.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. One employer offers an interview, but it’s so rare for you to receive any response that you forget to check the website and you miss the time.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. One employer offers an interview, but you don’t know the magic words that signal to the esoteric mind of an interviewer that you’re fit for the job.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. One employer e-mails you saying that ‘unfortunately, you do not have the qualifications we are looking for’. You check the job again and see you applied to be a menial labourer.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. Half of them require a car a car. No one stops to ask how you’re supposed to afford one with no job.
"You apply for 20 jobs on Indeed. One employer offers a job. The commute makes you want to die in your sleep.
"You call the HR manager for the workplace in hopes of arranging an interview more directly. They don’t even have an answering machine.
“Employers complain that no one wants to work anymore.”
[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]
You do good work, keep it up. Oh and also, blockquotes are useful for distinguishing quoted text. I hope this makes your life a little easier
My title of my post
I am sir quoted
I talk a lot and on many lines
Thanks, my footnote
In your post editor it looks like
<span style="color:#323232;">My title of my post
</span><span style="color:#323232;">
</span><span style="color:#323232;">> I am sir quoted
</span><span style="color:#323232;">>
</span><span style="color:#323232;">> I talk a lot and on *many* lines
</span><span style="color:#323232;">
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Thanks, my footnote
</span>
Posts on lemmy and and a lot of other places support markdown. Its really handy.
