OK, I'll allow this thread to stay up for now, so I can answer your complaints and demands, even tho it is in violation of our civility rule. I have removed the comments below tho that violated our rules.
Who are you anyway? I have no record of you ever having participated on the subreddit, and your rude behaviour also betrays a lack of familiarity with how we used to run LWMA.
But what you have done is wrong.
Who exactly are you to determine that? I made an ethical decision after about two weeks of consideration. I could no longer justify doing volunteer work for Reddit, after it demanded exorbitant amounts of money from third-party applications (while not paying its content creators and curators). Moderators use third-party applications, because Reddit's native solutions are too limited in functionality. Already the moderation experience has degraded. That's a hard pass for me.
by destroying it in your wake you have undone all that work
I didn't destroy anything. When I stepped down, I purposely left the sub as functional as it was before. If the remaining moderators are not doing the moderation work, that's not on me.
There were plenty of posts full of people asking to take over as the main mod of that subreddit.
There was one post by a mod that was MIA for a long time and returned to announce he was going to keep the sub going and get a new mod team together. My response was: have at it. I even waited a week to potentially help with vetting new applicants for moderator.
There were a few comments by people who expressed interest. Several times I pointed to modmail as the way to apply. Nobody applied by modmail. If they can't even follow simple instructions, they are likely not good candidates for the position. Or they weren't sufficiently motivated. Again, that's not on me.
Indeed, I did not actively try to recruit new mods there, because I believe it is unethical to moderate on Reddit at this point. But I also didn't stand in anyone's way.
You have destroyed a group of 15,000 people in a move driven by impotent spite.
I left a group of 15k, of whom maybe 500 were active participants. And you clearly have no understanding at all of my motivations.
And again, I left it functional, with a mod who announced he would keep it going.
You are also overwhelmingly arrogant to believe that not only have you "called" the replacement to reddit correctly
Personal attack. Cut that out.
And I didn't pretend this was the correct call. I specifically said I believe this is a good place to move to, and if it turns out it isn't, we can move somewhere else.
REOPEN R/LEFTWINGMALEADVOCATES - AND APPOINT ANOTHER HEAD MOD.
I literally can't, because I am no longer a moderator there. u/2717192619192 stepped up, and he was above me in the mod list anyway, so I effectively appointed him as head mod when I left. Any complaints of what happened after I stepped down on June 22nd (such as the move to set the subreddit as private), should be addressed at him. It's out of my hands.
What About Men? by Caitlin Moran review – bantz gone badA tendentious take on masculinity that takes unoriginal thoughts and confirms them in the echo chamber of TwitterStuart Jeffries Wed 12 Jul 2023 09.00 BST...
yo idk if this is the right place to put this, so sorry if it's not. Iv been really trying to figure this place out and honestly it feels like they made things overly complicated. I understand the magazines and the federated stuff I guess, maybe. But what the hell is the difference between posts and threads. Also I have noticed...
Go to the magazine that you want to create a thread in, hit the + in the top bar, and select "Add new link" or "Add new thread". There's also a select box for the magazine once you hit one of those.
For a microblog post, make sure to hit "Add new post" and again, there is a dropdown select box for the magazine. Also, you can add a hashtag to make the microblog post show up in various magazines.
Because sex, and to some extent religion, are the biggest taboos in many places. So, such words entice the strongest feelings. Read cognitive scientist Steven Pinker's book The Seven Words You Can't Say On Television.
As I psychologist, I’m concerned about mental health, especially the mental health of men and boys because it’s been overlooked for so long. Because there was so little interest in how much the negative discourse around masculinity impacts boys, my colleagues and I ran a survey. We found that around 85% of respondents...
It seems like there's a lot of language that the left is using in the gender discussion that's not great.
Indeed, and mostly influenced by feminism. And for a movement that is so sensitive to language, feminism does apply negative language to men quite liberally. Everything negative is named after men. It feels intentional.
Out of curiosity - do we oppose positive generalizations of men as a gender?
I have no problem with positive generalizations such as "men are good". I think that is healthy.
I would object to overgeneralizing by saying for example "all men are good", which is just not true.
As we start to see more users join, it's inevitable to see trolls (especially low-effort trolls) making more of an appearance and trying to be controversial and noticed....
I had an interesting conversation with a feminist on Reddit. She replied to my post about why left-wingers support feminism. In the post, I said I don't believe in a patriarchy or toxic masculinity....
Feminists believe there is a patriarchy because they look at the men, in the top 1% or 5%. They assume all other men have very minimal issues in their lives. Most rich people will be treated better, regardless of gender.
Also known as the apex fallacy.
I don't think advocating for men's issues and women's issues is mutually exclusive.
Agreed. That's why we advocate for an explicitly egalitarian approach.
This article is inspired by a Youtuber Caitlyn V who is a sex coach. I've watched some of her videos and I find them to be very informative, especially about sex. I'll link it here below...
No, they are not. We are individuals. Judging us all based on bad experiences with some men is wrong. It's sexist.
And many men also have bad experiences with women, but we're taught to shrug it off, even if it were recognized as sexual assault or rape with genders reversed.
As egalitarians, we want all people to be treated with equal consideration. There should be no favorites. All people, be they men, women, or children, deserve the same human rights, and the same amount of support....
I currently use fetlife as a way to connect with likeminded individuals. Sometimes they would make post about gender issues (usually female centered, and when it's male-centered it's usually about toxic male behaviour or how our problems are created by the 'patriarchy'.)...
Signals are often intentionally subtle and ambiguous, because it affords them plausible deniability, and is not as risky. It is up to us to not be fazed by that, and to go ahead until met with resistance. Unfortunately this leads to many gentler guys not making a move, and to others crossing boundaries...
I don’t know how else to describe it, but all my male friends and family are very unemotional. Not in the sense that they don’t feel anything, but that they are a lot better at handling them and I feel like I’m not. I’ve tried meditation, therapy, healthy eating and a better sleep schedule but nothing works. I still...
Not in the sense that they don’t feel anything, but that they are a lot better at handling them
I think this is an important distinction. You don't want to become unfeeling, but you do want to become more in control of your feelings. That's a sign of maturity (tho many adults don't really manage to get there).
I’ve tried meditation, therapy, healthy eating and a better sleep schedule but nothing works.
This takes time. Stick with it for a few years and you will see improvement. It's not easy to grow and change, so give yourself time, and don't give up.
Life isn't easy for most of us. Just keep at it. Build healthy habits and over time you will see improvement.
I also recommend reading Stoic philosophy. Not the pop-culture unfeeling stuff. But the stuff about knowing the difference between what's in your control and what's outside of your control.
You also want to regulate your feelings. It's not helpful to e.g. let your anxiety drive you into a frenzy, or your depression drive you to harm yourself. Emotional regulation (not suppression) is an important skill.
I don't have a problem with the rest of the comment, but the feminist terminology is grating.
'Patriarchy' is commonly defined as "a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it" (as per r/AskFeminists.) This is simply not the kind of society we live in. In Western countries at least (and most others as well) women are represented at all levels of government, and there are no systemic barriers to participation.
power structures that were designed to support the lifestyles of a select few
Exactly. It's not men in general that have been in power, but a select few men and women. It is then incorrect to use the terms patriarchy and patriarchal systems (as commonly understood) to describe our society. Because there are plenty of men at the bottom too, even more so.
It's not just semantics. Terms such as "patriarchy", "toxic masculinity", and "male privilege" habitually come with a load of negative messaging about what it means to be a man. That is toxic and we should avoid that.
I prefer terms such as "harmful gender expectations" as it puts the locus of the problem in society rather than the nature of men. Young men growing up deserve better than to be demonized for their gender and to be driven into the arms of toxic figures like Tate.
There will be a range of opinions, I guess. Mine is that I like her and many of the points she makes, but she leans a bit too much into traditionalism.
so overtime i have been seeing the left after the convo's about men's place in society, and it has been dismal. There was this video of a trans man talking about the loneliness of men went viral on TikTok and A channel named Aba and Preach covered it from their perspective (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZF7k9nVNRw&t=1088s)...
I am not prepared to let go of my left-wing values the way most of the people claiming to be left-wing have been doing. I am an egalitarian, and I am not prepared to treat men as less deserving of human rights, of care and consideration, of protection against discrimination, and so on.
But yeah, if you are on the left and care about men, you often have to carve your own way and swim against the stream of normalized misandry. But that's why we have this community.
The fact is that men (specifically cis het white men) are relative newcomers in the "getting shit on" world. This is NOT minimizing the issues we face - they're real and should be taken seriously - they're just new (see: women got the right to vote about 100 years ago).
No, this is a misrepresentation. Most men didn't have the right to vote either, just the landowners. If you look at when men got universal suffrage, and when women did, that's often close together. And then we're not even speaking of black men and women.
But the left is realizing that it isn't cis het white men that were the problem, since they're also getting shit on now too - it's the rich. It's always been the rich. And that's why we're seeing "no war but class war."
Yes, it's always been the rich. Not men. And where are we seeing "no war but class war"? The modern "left" appears to be in the pockets of the rich, always looking for the next minority to champion and forgetting to champion the working class.
To be clear, there are still folks talking about men as a collective being a problem. My only advise is to mentally correct "men" to "the stereotypical men with traits that this person thinks negatively of" and not take it personally.
And I would advise to not take bigotry that lightly. We should expose that and demand that people do better.
By 1776 at least 60 percent of adult white males were able to vote
That is unique to the US, and to white people in the US. In other countries it was quite different. For example the UK had a ten year gap between male suffrage (1918) and female suffrage (1928), as did Sweden. In my own country, the Netherlands, there was a two year gap (1917-1919).
And I don't do TikTok. We still don't see that in the wider left, tho.
There’s a certain copypasta that gets posted in men’s issues spaces online. I think it might have originally been said by Karen Staughan. You may know the one I’m talking about. If you have it handy, please post it in the comments. I want to go ahead and reiterate it because it’s a very important point about online...
I just stepped down as moderator from all five of the subreddits I used to moderate over on Reddit. I just can't ethically justify continued activity on Reddit, and especially free volunteer labour for an openly greedy company that is engaged in scummy behaviour, forcing mods to open protesting communities or be demoted....
I appreciate that they try to highlight some male issues. But they subjugate them to feminist ideology, which I think is the wrong approach. They control the conversation very tightly and do not allow general criticism of feminism (especially the widespread misandry), nor specific topics such as legal paternal surrender. For that reason I consider the MensLib sub "controlled opposition". Even tho many members may have the heart in the right place, there is a high degree of self-censorship going on. Or you find yourself, as I did, quietly shadowbanned.
We don't accept calling members of this community "too paranoid to be worth listening to". That is a personal attack. And we don't call them incels either. This is a place for civil discussion. Not for calling each other names. Our sidebar specifically states: "Attack the argument, not the person."
There is modlog (linked in the sidebar), but it doesn't appear to give access to the full comments, just the first couple of lines or so, unless it's a very short comment.
How could feminism in any way give men "the freedom to be who and what they want" when they portray men as the problem? Feminism is toxic to healthy masculinity and healthy gender relations.
I think you are conflating men as a group with men as individuals.
I don't, but most feminists do.
I think when they say "men are the problem" that's shorthand for a system
Then they should blame society, not men as a group. Most men don't have any more influence on the system than most women do.
And what do you think constant negative messaging about men as a group being the problem does to the minds of boys growing up? Are you surprised many of them go down the alt-right radicalization pipeline?
a system that generally pays men more
I don't know where this is true, but certainly not in Western countries, where such discrimination by gender is illegal.
expects them to take on less domestic responsibilities
More a question of expecting men to take on different domestic responsibilities, on top of expecting men to be the primary providers.
allows them to vote away women's rights
Instead, men overwhelmingly voted for granting women equal rights.
and all of the other longstanding injustices
You mean injustices such as conscription, age of retirement, homelessness, etc?
Most of the feminists I know are straight and either married or partnered - they clearly don't hate all men.
Most feminists collectivize men as "the patriarchy" and hold them collectively accountable for a host of societal problems. And whenever an individual man misbehaves, they often immediately link that back to the patriarchal collective.
You may not recognize that as hate, but what is effectively the difference?
Women still make significantly less than men on average
Not for the same job with the same responsibilities, working the same hours. If women want to make the same or more than men, then they can step up and do the same jobs for the same hours as men.
My city starts teachers at $56k and police officers at $70k
Even taking school shootings into account, one of these jobs is significantly more dangerous than the other and requires shift work. And again, if women want to make more money, then they should become police officers instead of teachers... Who's stopping them?
there's still no country where women outearn men
That's because men are still expected to be the primary providers. And unfortunately that's not something easily changed. Most women expect that, and feel ill at ease when roles are reversed. Do you really want to force women into dangerous or strenuous high-earning jobs? Or maybe we can respect our men more who bring home the bacon, so to say?
I have removed comments for personal attacks, as per our rules.
Where is the misogyny? I mean, it is possible I may have missed it, as I am human and fallible. But make sure to differentiate feminism from women. Feminism is an ideology, not a gender. Attacks on women as a gender will not be tolerated.
So, if you want to call out bad behavior here, call out the specific statements ("That statement is misogynistic" or "Saying that is bigotry"). Do not use personal attacks ("You're a misogynist" or basically any form of "you are X") as they will be removed.
Our society doesn’t respect the bodily autonomy of our boys and men, and it doesn’t emphasize getting their consent. Yet we're demanding that they respect the bodily autonomy of others.
This comment is just nonsense. He shows why feminism is regressive and sexist. He may not have given evidence for every single claim, but he certainly gave plenty.
And showing how a movement is actually a hate movement can certainly coexist with not hating the demographic said movement claims to fight for.
[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]
Book review: What About Men? by Caitlin Moran (Stuart Jeffries, The Guardian) ( www.theguardian.com )
What About Men? by Caitlin Moran review – bantz gone badA tendentious take on masculinity that takes unoriginal thoughts and confirms them in the echo chamber of TwitterStuart Jeffries Wed 12 Jul 2023 09.00 BST...
[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]
What is the difference between a post and thread? ( kbin.social )
yo idk if this is the right place to put this, so sorry if it's not. Iv been really trying to figure this place out and honestly it feels like they made things overly complicated. I understand the magazines and the federated stuff I guess, maybe. But what the hell is the difference between posts and threads. Also I have noticed...
A silent crisis in men’s health gets worse ( www.washingtonpost.com )
Across the life span — from infancy to the teen years, midlife and old age — boys and men are more likely to die than girls and women....
Expletives are trending anti-male ( kbin.social )
I’d like to talk about bad words, if I may....
'He is always there to listen': friendships between young men are more than just beers and banter ( theconversation.com )
There’s a common perception that friendships among young men are superficial – but this isn’t necessarily true....
‘Toxic masculinity’ is toxic terminology — The Centre for Male Psychology ( www.centreformalepsychology.com )
As I psychologist, I’m concerned about mental health, especially the mental health of men and boys because it’s been overlooked for so long. Because there was so little interest in how much the negative discourse around masculinity impacts boys, my colleagues and I ran a survey. We found that around 85% of respondents...
So IAMA is practically dead... ( www.reddit.com )
For those that dont want to look at the link:...
Reminder: reddit may be dead, but trolls are not. ( kbin.social )
As we start to see more users join, it's inevitable to see trolls (especially low-effort trolls) making more of an appearance and trying to be controversial and noticed....
It seems like feminists want men to think in a gynocentric way. ( kbin.social )
I had an interesting conversation with a feminist on Reddit. She replied to my post about why left-wingers support feminism. In the post, I said I don't believe in a patriarchy or toxic masculinity....
What happens if you don't have sex for over a year? (We need better solutions) ( kbin.social )
This article is inspired by a Youtuber Caitlyn V who is a sex coach. I've watched some of her videos and I find them to be very informative, especially about sex. I'll link it here below...
You're either an egalitarian, or you're a sexist ( kbin.social )
As egalitarians, we want all people to be treated with equal consideration. There should be no favorites. All people, be they men, women, or children, deserve the same human rights, and the same amount of support....
Men's lack of received desirability. ( kbin.social )
I currently use fetlife as a way to connect with likeminded individuals. Sometimes they would make post about gender issues (usually female centered, and when it's male-centered it's usually about toxic male behaviour or how our problems are created by the 'patriarchy'.)...
I feel like less of a man because of how emotionally sensitive I am.
I don’t know how else to describe it, but all my male friends and family are very unemotional. Not in the sense that they don’t feel anything, but that they are a lot better at handling them and I feel like I’m not. I’ve tried meditation, therapy, healthy eating and a better sleep schedule but nothing works. I still...
why i think that men dont align with feminism and the left at large ( kbin.social )
so overtime i have been seeing the left after the convo's about men's place in society, and it has been dismal. There was this video of a trans man talking about the loneliness of men went viral on TikTok and A channel named Aba and Preach covered it from their perspective (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZF7k9nVNRw&t=1088s)...
“I’m not like the other feminists.” ( kbin.social )
There’s a certain copypasta that gets posted in men’s issues spaces online. I think it might have originally been said by Karen Staughan. You may know the one I’m talking about. If you have it handy, please post it in the comments. I want to go ahead and reiterate it because it’s a very important point about online...
Welcome to /m/men! ( kbin.social )
I just stepped down as moderator from all five of the subreddits I used to moderate over on Reddit. I just can't ethically justify continued activity on Reddit, and especially free volunteer labour for an openly greedy company that is engaged in scummy behaviour, forcing mods to open protesting communities or be demoted....
Teaching Boys Consent Is Hypocritical Until We End Infant Circumcision - Woke Father ( www.wokefather.com )
Our society doesn’t respect the bodily autonomy of our boys and men, and it doesn’t emphasize getting their consent. Yet we're demanding that they respect the bodily autonomy of others.
Feminism: Not “progressive”. Not “egalitarian”. Not “liberal”. Not “left-wing”. ( criticathink.wordpress.com )
Notes for a talk at ICMI with the following title: Feminism: Not “progressive”. Not “egalitarian”. Not “liberal”. Not “left-wing”....