Jakdracula ,
@Jakdracula@lemmy.world avatar

America isn’t a country, it’s just a business. That business minded model for society has drained all decency out of it. The US is a kleptocratic, psychopathic, oligarchy that has rotted out the brains of formerly decent people who have become the monsters we all see in stories like these. It will take multiple generations to fix this, if that is even possible.

GrayBackgroundMusic ,

America isn’t a country, it’s just a business

It’s three businesses in a country sized trench coat.

niktemadur , (edited )

Your brainwashed mesmerized grandparents and their lazy non-voting baby boomer children let Reagan through the door in no uncertain terms, and in that environment the 80s “hostile corporate takeover” and junk bonds fever set in; with bottomless greed as the virus, which like herpes, seems to stick around forever.

EDIT: a word

Tinidril ,

Lazy voters stayed home and let Trump in. (With a strong assist from the Democratic party.). That’s not what happened with Reagan. Reagan had incredibly broad popular support. I don’t know if that’s more or less damning of American voters, but no amount of additional turnout would have saved Carter.

Chakravanti ,

It’s not a psychopath. It’s a sociopath.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

It’s both.

Most CEOs match all the criteria for psychopathy or sociopathy

fosforus ,

Clearly more than the average, but not “most”. Last I remember the figure was something like 12%.

In a small company it sure makes a difference if your senior management are sociopaths, but if the company is large enough that you’ll never see the CEO I’m not sure what difference does it make that he doesn’t care about you personally.

a_wild_mimic_appears ,

those 12% are loud tho, and tend to shift the “company-overton-window” :-(

Chakravanti ,

You’re just wrong. Psychopath is just a less skilled version of the same damn thing. They don’t make it CEO’s except that rare instance of inheriting the wealth. Then, sure, we get a great example of it like Elon. But then they’re just that.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

As a diagnosed sociopath you have it completely backwards.

Chakravanti ,

You would say so wouldn’t you?

ConstantPain ,

My work pays me to work from 9 to 5, which uses the best part of my day. I’m not giving anything more than that.

madcaesar ,

I’d even argue that’s too fucking much

ConstantPain ,

And I would agree! 4h top is all I need to do my daily job.

madcaesar ,

IMO the weekend should be longer than the fucking work week. We have this shit backwards. Work is 5 days and then we have barely 1 day to relax, since you need one of the weekend days for errands.

Cowlitz ,

I loved working 4 10s (and at that place it was more like 4 13s) because it gave 1 day to relax, 1 to run errands/go to weekday appointments, and 1 to clean the house/relax. Id much rather work longer 4 days a week and have an extra day off the workday is so long anyway especially with a commute that I can’t do anything after work anyway (and I was too tired to).

KevonLooney ,

If you work from home, you can do things during the work week too. Say you have a meeting where you only talk for 5 minutes. You clean or do chores the rest of the time. Just wear and earbud and put yourself on mute.

You can have your whole weekend off. I’m never going back to in office work unless the pay is doubled. It takes up all your time.

madcaesar ,

I know but that’s all still very stressful.

bilb ,
@bilb@lem.monster avatar

I hope this is true but I don’t believe it

Illuminostro ,

the_q ,

No one has ever wanted to work.

GladiusB ,
@GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

This is a hot take. People have definitely wanted to work. The problem is now we don’t need to. There was a point that humans needed to work or we would not evolve as a species. There are many that took pride in being a part of that. Now that need has shifted into we could feasibly feed and shelter every soul on the planet and a few greedy fucks don’t know how to coordinate it with all their riches.

executivechimp ,
@executivechimp@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Depends what you mean by work. People always want to do things and create things and help others. They don’t want to spend 8 hours a day doing menial, meaningless crap just to be able live.

GladiusB ,
@GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

My point is that they did. Back when there was a sense of accomplishment that added to the human existence. There was a sense of pride to a lot of workers in the 50s for many reasons. I do agree that it has changed. And a lot of it has to do with the rewards given. But they still exist.

the_q ,

I don’t think they have. I think they were made to labor under the whip or under a promise for something. You’re like that other guy thinking the guy cracking the whip or promoting the latest video game are “working”.

The freedom to pursue ones interests isn’t work.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

You make it sound like there is only dirt poor people forced to work or criminally rich people with “freedom to peruse their interests”

Somehow having a job you like in this situation makes it not work.

LOL, nah man, I found WORK and I like it and it’s still called WORK.

the_q ,

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

The idea that work stops being work if you enjoy it not something I can take seriously.

the_q ,

Working in a textile mill in 120 degree heat is work. It’s work no one wants to do. No one comes in and argues pedantically about “well I find sweating my ass off for minimum wage fulfilling”. That’s work.

Going into your temperature controlled office where you’re a CPA and get paid wonderfully and enjoy numbers isn’t the same thing at all.

The work I’m referencing is the bottom tier shit that without it the economy would crumble. Not your SEO manager bullshit job that you think you love cause you’re making 6 figures in a 5 figure town.

snek , (edited )
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Buddy, working in a textile mill in 48 °C is a safety hazard and modern slavery. You have a weird warped pedantic perspective on what work means. And somejow the rest of us should take the dictionary definition and throw it out of the window and instead adopt your made up definition that seems to only work in your head? 😬 No thanks.

The first is modern slavery. The second is work. Hope it helps! Cheers.

Ps: SEO manager? Clearly it was a mistake to engage you at all because you didn’t read squat shit of what I wrote. Note to the future: do not engage people who haven’t even read your own text, and don’t bother reading their text to the end. They are upset at a phantom in their heads, not you.

the_q ,

Yeah you’re definitely one of those people that talks louder than whoever they’re talking with and assumes they’re right. Enjoy your “work”.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

I am enjoying it, thanks.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Wow what a sweeping statement with no legs to stand on.

I love work. I worked (yes) quite hard to get a degree and become a developer and ML engineer. One day, I’d like to work in computational neuroscience. I hate so many things about work culture, but the work itself? Naaah, it’s awesome. I’d rather spend every day in this life working on something I love and have interested in, instead of going around making sweeping statements about the entire globe on the internet, incapable of accepting that not everyone is like me.

owen ,

Modern “work” does not involve doing something you’re passionate about or interested in for the vast majority of people…

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Yep so not “all” of them.

owen ,

Check out the term “hyperbole”

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Oh my oh my sorry for taking people in the internet at face value. Next time I’ll just guess what their thought process was and live my life based on that.

owen ,

Thanks but apology declined

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Here’s another one: I’m so sorry your life must really suck with work and all to the point that you can’t see other people enjoying it and where you feel the need to say they aren’t really “working” just because they found something they love and succeeded in navigating the shitty system (out or merit or luck or privilege, whatever) and you didn’t /:

We can all be on the same side. I hate modern work culture and I actively try to improve it and myself day after day. I’m sure you do too.

Could you accept that one too?

Cheers bud.

owen ,

No. Also, I like my job

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Of course you do 🙄

owen ,

?

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Nothing, I just totally believe you and agree with you. Have a nice day. ☺️

owen ,

You need to consider that most jobs out there are simply things that need to be done, not things that people are passionate about. Getting a higher eductation and a complex job is something for which I consider myself very lucky. I was born with all the opportunities to do so. Despite these privileges, I acknowledge that the people doing the fundamental, low level jobs deserve adequate compensation to lead a happy life

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

You need to consider that most jobs out there are simply things that need to be done

This was always my view. I don’t think I said anything at all that implies otherwise. So we already agree. My original comment was in response to someone saying no one ever in existence wanted to work. Surely you’ve met idiots on the internet and had to explain things to them before, no? Hard for me to assume they were using a literary device. I’d rather take them at face value.

Melatonin ,

Lol, good try at turning snek’s argument against him, but that was clearly sarcasm.

owen is the reason /s was invented.

owen ,

Burh. As if I would say “apology declined” in earnest

Melatonin ,

Cheating. This is akin to saying, “I was just kidding!”

owen ,

Cheating? This isn’t a game, it’s a conversation

Melatonin ,

Cheating. Changed the definition of the word “work”

the_q ,

Whatever you do isn’t work, buddy and you knew that before replying.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

It literally Is work, and you knew that before replying /: see we can both say shit like that.

the_q ,

You need it to be defined as work.

SuddenDownpour ,

I feel the same way.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Then get ready for lots of downvotes because apparently pointing out that someone made a sweeping generalization then telling the world you’re one of those few who enjoy their jobs means you deserve being downvoted to hell 😁

Melatonin ,

snek’s statement still stands. They announced they love work. It negates the prior statement. Why downvote then?

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

I thought this was Work Reform, not Anti Work 😭 my mistake

mo_lave ,

If you live in more ancient times, do you want to be a slave?

GrayBackgroundMusic ,

Soft disagree. I want to do meaningful work and interesting work. It’s boring bullshit getting 10 managers to approve a change when none of them know what I even do. I love working on my projects in my garage, or in my kitchen on baking something.

WholeEnchilada ,

Could gen Z become the new gen X? As an Xer, I feel some solidarity with gen Z.

KuroeNekoDemon ,

My mom can see the corruption with modern work culture and she’s Gen X and knows the same reasons I do as to why people don’t want to work. I think Gen Z, Millenials and Gen X are starting to stand up to the Boomers shitty work culture. We just want to be treated with kindness and have a good work environment how hard is that?

Jakdracula ,
@Jakdracula@lemmy.world avatar

My grandfather was a soldier so my dad could be a farmer so I could be a poet.

xX_fnord_Xx ,

My grandfather was a garbage man so my father could be a fireman so I could stock grocery shelves whilst writing the Great American Novel on my days off.

Showroom7561 ,

living over working

Yes, we all want that. But…

Are they eating air? Living with their parents? Accumulating debt?

What are their plans for the next 50 years, because living will get a hell of a lot harder than it is now.

We’ve all been forced to put work over life, just to survive long enough to work past retirement age.

Takios ,

You missed a word. It says “prioritizing living over working”. The promise was to work hard and a lot to get a good lifestyle (house, a nice car or two, vacations). Now it’s work hard but without those rewards in sight. So we cut back on working to a point where we can still have an okay lifestyle.

Showroom7561 ,

What does an OK lifestyle look like if you aren’t prioritizing work?

I’m not being critical to sound like an ass. I think we’re all stuck in the same, miserable, work-dependant lifestyle, and it’s aweful.

Takios ,

I realize I’m privileged as my situation is a lot better than having to live paycheck to paycheck. However, if I wanted to get a nice house, decent car, vacations, etc. I’d have to put in a lot more work than the usual 40 hours. Instead of doing that though I looked at my finances and decided, I could reduce my hours to 35 without decreasing my quality of life too much so I did that instead.

I do understand though that people in precarious and less-compensated jobs cannot afford this luxury.

Showroom7561 ,

Yeah, if you’ve got a high-paying job then you have the means to not have to prioritize work. Hopefully, that remains constant over the next several decades.

But how many Gen Z’ers are in that position?

We keep seeing articles about Gen Z’ers not being able to afford rent, let alone food and other basic comforts. They are, or will be, forced to put work first. Not just working harder to get the luxuries of their grandparents or parents, but working harder to scrape by.

And I don’t even see and end to this. Corporations will eventually abolish retirement, because very few will be able to retire the way things keep going.

Ookami38 ,

I think the idea is that a lot of people prioritize only their work. The whole hustle grindset thing, working obscene hours to try to get rich. Instead of doing that, seeing that whole rat race for what it is, doing enough work to get by, and then actually enjoying your time elsewhere seems to be what this is advocating for.

Showroom7561 ,

I think the idea is that a lot of people prioritize only their work.

Is this really a thing? Has it ever been for the masses?

Sure, people might prioritize work over anything else when they are young, but that’s often necessary to secure a future.

Other people live to work, but that’s pretty rare.

Instead of doing that, seeing that whole rat race for what it is, doing enough work to get by, and then actually enjoying your time elsewhere seems to be what this is advocating for.

I thought that what most people do. Does anyone actually believe that working hard at their low-paying job is going to make them rich? I thought that idea was dead decades ago.

Ookami38 ,

Just look at the hustle grindset, or sigma grind, or whatever you want to call it. No, most people aren’t working 120 hours a week at a McDonald’s, but a lot more are getting multiple jobs, side hustles, etc to get to “get ahead” in the game.

Showroom7561 ,

To get ahead or to get by? Nobody who’s grinding two or three jobs is wealthy, and I think they’re only doing it to pay the bills because a single job doesn’t cut it anymore.

I’ve spoken with uber drivers who already have a “good job” but they need money to support their parents who are living with them, perhaps multiple kids, etc. It really sucks to be in that situation because work is all you do.

Ookami38 ,

Do the minimum to put the food you like on the table, to afford a place to live, and then fuck off for the rest of the time. No OT, no projects outside of work hrs, no checking email overnight. Do your job, to the level that is strictly required, and reprioritize yourself any other time.

Showroom7561 ,

And you think that’ll allow you to retire at 65? 85?

Look, I get it. I don’t prioritize work over “life”, but I’m not naive to believe that I’ll have a comfortable retirement, because I won’t.

I think the majority of us will stuggle tremendously in the coming decades.

Ookami38 ,

I never said you’d be able to comfortably retire. That’s another part of it. The younger generations know they won’t retire at all, or at a reasonable time, so just do your 40, get enough to live, and go do something actually fulfilling.

Cracks_InTheWalls ,
@Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works avatar

Most don’t expect to retire ever - they will work enough to survive until they die, naturally or otherwise.

Whether this is bleak realism or self-fulfilling, dangerous pessimism is an interesting question.

TheDoctorDonna ,

So because the generations before them made the wrong choice, they have as well?

If my kids live with my my whole life I am A-OK with that.

Showroom7561 ,

So because the generations before them made the wrong choice, they have as well?

I’m not punishing younger generations, I’m saying that they’re even more screwed than previous generations, so they’ll still need to work hard… it just won’t get them any luxuries.

If my kids live with my my whole life I am A-OK with that.

You might be, but not everyone wants that, especially in homes where there is no separation (like no basement apartment). That could be a nightmare for both parents and the adult child.

Ookami38 ,

I think you’re agreeing with each other, except that no one in this thread actually thinks working hard will bring you anything in this day and age.

Showroom7561 ,

I don’t think working hard these days will bring you anything except regrets later and life, and maybe put food on the table.

Ookami38 ,

I… Yeah? We’re agreeing with each other? What’s the argument?

KuroeNekoDemon ,

Hi Gen Z here I got diagnosed with Complex PTSD and Psychosis after a very awful and abusive work environment that’s ended in the Ministry of Labour thinking of fining the employer and me suing them for reprising against me for calling the ministry to get the abuse to stop. It has nothing to do with money it has everything to do with being treated with respect and not getting abused. And these employers wonder why no one wants to work for them if they’ll just come out with a mental health, psychiatric or psychological disorder

replicat ,

Seems pretty selfish to me

/s

catalog3115 ,

How is this selfish?

Gargantuanthud ,

It was sarcasm, hence the /s

fosforus ,

Seems pretty selfish to me

Yes

/s

No

ConstantPain ,

Don’t you think about the poor dividends?

Melatonin ,

OF COURSE we prioritize life over work. Normal people always have. That doesn’t mean we don’t work. What is life without work? Amusing ourselves to death?

BellyPurpledGerbil ,

It’s the imbalance that’s always been the problem. People want to work, but many have to work to survive. So every day is a struggle for survival. It’s no wonder we’re seeing a rise in anxiety disorders, depression, suicide, and general health decline across the board. Some day every late stage capitalist society will normalize the kind of work culture we see in China, South Korea, and Japan, where people are worked to death and have no time for themselves. No time and no safety net for starting families. And paid just enough to get by, not to thrive.

I’m with the younger generations here. I’d rather amuse myself to death than work myself to death.

Melatonin , (edited )

“You better start swimming or you’ll sink like a stone

For the times, they are a-changin’”

-Dylan

Everybody, everybody has to work to survive, from aboriginal people, to the most developed country, to the most socialized country in the world. It has always been thus, and that does not explain rising anxiety, depression, suicide, or health decline.

Abuses of workers and exploitive attempts to move toward a serfdom where no worker owns anything have existed as long as humans have been selfish. It’s not the result of a political system.

The French in the 1700s didn’t lay down and amuse themselves when exploited. Neither did the American colonies. Neither did Russia. Neither did China. It might be time to stop dropping out, give up on comfort, and start the hard work of getting shit fixed.

Hey everybody, you’re anxious and depressed because you know you have to do something about it and you don’t want to. Maybe you even know you’re going to let it happen.

Misconduct ,

I think you took a wrong turn at Facebook and ended up here on accident bro

Melatonin , (edited )

Haha, good one

But seriously, what’s supposed to change? It’s there going to be a friendly helpful Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos or even Elon Musk? Honest public-minded politicians?

Look at Germany right now. HUGE protests.

You aren’t powerless. You just aren’t doing anything.

aidan ,

I disagree, individualistic societies work less. It is people who are taught they have a responsibility to society that work more.

CptOblivius ,

I just saw Docs, nurses and staff who had pensions for 30+ years just get butchered as the new Hospital system took over. Routed it all to standard 401ks. Why put your soul into a company. They will never come through. That ship has sailed.

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

My only hope is people look around at the fact that one of the few ways to still get a pension is through union work, and the current unionization wave continues into something bigger, better, and greater than we've had in the past.

raynethackery , (edited )

That’s what this new wave of layoffs and threats of layoffs is to help curtail.

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

That’s one of the risks of not being unionized. My employer can’t touch my pension (not that they would want to since they all came up from the union rank and file too) because it’s all managed through our union contract and there’s no chance in hell that we ever approve a contract that gives them that kind of control.

Kyrgizion ,

Even that isn’t complete protection. The government can always change the rules as they go. Not to mention a complete breakdown of society wouldn’t exactly do wonders for pensions and 401k’s either.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

a future-of-work expert

Saw the writing on the wall and just invented a new job.

Gork ,

“Robots are taking our jerbs”

leo ,
@leo@lemmy.l0l.city avatar

I wish I had that kind of foresight

zuck ,
@zuck@lemmy.l0l.city avatar

we are the dividends

LifeOfChance ,

I was criticized for years about this approach to work so I’m glad others see it now. If work yielded results sure I’d focus a little more but as it’s gotten worse I can’t even have hobbies because I can’t afford to get into anything financially, mentally, and because of time of working multiple jobs to make it by…

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