Kyrgizion ,

My stepfather worked his entire life like a goddamn donkey. Even when he was supposed to be on pension his old boss still called him and he actually went and worked for him for free. Today, he’s practically crippled from all the physical strain he put his body though. His ex-boss, meanwhile, is rich as fuck and doesn’t give a fuck, while my stepfather has the absolute minimum pension and no healthcare.

My grandparents, on the other hand, had a very different story. My grandfather worked for the same employer for 50+ years, never missed a day, and had a decent wage AND a pension which he could access at 55 years of age. They were the last generation to receive their part of the social contract, but the generation of my parents and myself are completely missing out.

Small wonder that the young’uns have eyes in their heads and the werewithal to say “No way, not for me!”.

ConstantPain ,

My work pays me to work from 9 to 5, which uses the best part of my day. I’m not giving anything more than that.

madcaesar ,

I’d even argue that’s too fucking much

ConstantPain ,

And I would agree! 4h top is all I need to do my daily job.

madcaesar ,

IMO the weekend should be longer than the fucking work week. We have this shit backwards. Work is 5 days and then we have barely 1 day to relax, since you need one of the weekend days for errands.

Cowlitz ,

I loved working 4 10s (and at that place it was more like 4 13s) because it gave 1 day to relax, 1 to run errands/go to weekday appointments, and 1 to clean the house/relax. Id much rather work longer 4 days a week and have an extra day off the workday is so long anyway especially with a commute that I can’t do anything after work anyway (and I was too tired to).

KevonLooney ,

If you work from home, you can do things during the work week too. Say you have a meeting where you only talk for 5 minutes. You clean or do chores the rest of the time. Just wear and earbud and put yourself on mute.

You can have your whole weekend off. I’m never going back to in office work unless the pay is doubled. It takes up all your time.

madcaesar ,

I know but that’s all still very stressful.

Da_Boom ,
@Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

You shouldn’t live to work, that’s a terrible, shitty, boring, sole sucking way to survive, sure some people enjoy that way, but those guys are the minority, or theyve managed to make their hobby a job so they’re not actually working a day in their life, just getting paid to enjoy their hobby

You work to live. You do just enough work so you can go and enjoy yourself. I generally try not to work too much overtime, and I refuse to be on call unless I get desperate for a cash injection.

Working to live is the one reason I haven’t moved out of home - I pay A$450 a fortnight in board, and that’s far less than most rental properties, (who usually require that but weekly but for a residence that is far worse than where I currently live) and the only room and clothes I have to keep clean are my own.

I got my hobbies and I indulge in them regularly - I game or read my book on the bus to and from work (recently managed to obtain a steam deck for on the go gaming) I livestream when I want to, even if no one’s watching. I go visit my friends on weekends - usually an hour out of my way down the back roads, because I like driving the winding roads and it’s a bonus that it just happens to unironically be the fastest route to their place.

My job isn’t too stressful, and honestly I’m not wanting for much more than I already have. And because I live at home, Im not in debt (apart from my government university debt, but added taxes slowly pay that off, and there’s no deadline to pay it off in full) and am actually saving for a house deposit in the future.

I’m happy, I mean it won’t last, I’ll eventually have to move out - my parents won’t want me living with them forever. Wether I can save enough to get a deposit on a mortgage or have to rent remains to be seen. Hopefully the housing market collapses like it needs to.

fosforus ,

If you can live without working, go ahead. If not, you work.

maynarkh ,

I think it’s more of a “do you grind for that promotion or do you do just enough work to not get fired?” question. The system heavily relies on people believing they provide value to society through their work, and the fact that doing your job well is rewarding in itself. I see my whole generation being burnt out of this however.

fosforus , (edited )

I see my whole generation being burnt out of this however.

I see that happening too, but at the same time I’m also witnessing their workload and demands on them being smaller than what it used to be (already at school), and their work conditions being greatly improved compared to previous times. There’s clearly a systemic problem somewhere, as I don’t think whole generations can suddenly be simply worse than previous ones, but at the same time it’s crystal clear that the problem is not “too much work”.

Jonathan Haidt has written about this a few times before[0], and his latest book[1] is coming in a few months. Should be interesting.

[0] www.thecoddling.com

[1] www.amazon.com/…/0593655036

KevonLooney ,

That first book seems like conservative whining about being “shouted down” on college campuses. I think this guy is too young to have experienced the 60s, because college campuses were a lot rowdier then.

His ideas don’t look plausible to me at all. It sounds like he just wants attention.

fosforus , (edited )

His ideas don’t look plausible to me at all. It sounds like he just wants attention.

Perhaps read the book first? I’m sure it’s available from piracy sites if you don’t want him to have your money. Ignoring a thing you disagree with initially is a great way to never improve intellectually.

maynarkh ,

because college campuses were a lot rowdier then

I’m just saying that the university experience of my grandparents’ generation in the 50s included trying to fight off the Soviet 8th Mechanized Army and becoming NYT Man of the Year.

That said, education becoming shittier definitely is a phenomenon across cultures.

ZzyzxRoad ,

I’m also witnessing their workload and demands on them being smaller than what it used to be (already at school), and their work conditions being greatly improved compared to previous times

This is exactly the kind of “back in my day” invalidating, subordinating bs that many workers, not just gen z, are sick of putting up with. No one wants to be talked down to, or to have to put up with constant boomer finger wagging. On the other hand, it’s obvious when people talk like this that they’re unable to accept how much things change, and regardless of age, shows how out of touch they are with what the average worker puts up with.

I’m sure the people (and children) working in factories in the industrial revolution probably had it easier than those who came before them too. Maybe they were spoiled for fighting for an eight hour workday and safety regulations /s

Millennials are some of the first to have to be “always on” with constant emails, and Slack, and companies monitoring their every move on their phones and laptops, and hiring managers scouring their social media before agreeing to hire them, people getting fired for having OF pages, and having to constantly post bs all over LinkedIn just to stay relevant since there’s no way they’ll be able to keep the same job for more than a few years. And that’s just at their main job, nevermind the two other app-based “hustles” they’re forced to have that pay less than minimum wage. Just because the demands are different doesn’t mean they’re any lower, nor any better.

fosforus , (edited )

Millennials are some of the first to have to be “always on” with constant emails, and Slack, and companies monitoring their every move on their phones and laptops,

I totally agree. And in addition to “having to be” always on, we very often also choose to be always on. This is one of the biggest problems of our generation, I think, and I’m not seeing any attempts at fixing it. If anything, we’re trying to make it worse.

maynarkh ,

My experience has been that, at least in education, it’s inefficient work. My parents got to learn more and study less. They were taught stuff my classes just didn’t have time for, while their school days lasted from 8:00 to 14:00, mine went from 7:00 to 15:30. I was bored through most of it.

It’s not “too much work”, it’s “too much make-work”.

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

I wish I could tell somehow, to people, that this is what I did. I chose “nope”. It’s not socially acceptable. Is there a hotline I can call?

catalog3115 ,

What do you mean? There is ofcourse propoganda to work hard for less.

anarchy79 , (edited )
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

No I fight the system from without. And talk about an unpaid, thankless job.

I opted out, the social contract is void, I don’t accept living on the terms proposed, I’m not signing myself over to modern slavery while supporting a system devastating the planet just so some fat fucks can eat burgers all day. I would literally rather live on the street- and I do. Change has to come from people saying “no”. Guess that’s not for everyone, because by the time they get a clue, they’re already knee high in the system and can’t break free from it except at tremendous personal cost. Not everyone is willing to pay it, but I can’t reconcile that with my base conscience and if nobody steps up then we’re fucking doomed.

replicat ,

Seems pretty selfish to me

/s

catalog3115 ,

How is this selfish?

Gargantuanthud ,

It was sarcasm, hence the /s

fosforus ,

Seems pretty selfish to me

Yes

/s

No

ConstantPain ,

Don’t you think about the poor dividends?

profdc9 ,

You’re not even number two.

NewAgeOldPerson ,

Of course not. That’s Bono.

sibannac ,

I want to put the effort I give earning money to be put towards bettering my life. All my lemons are being juiced for someone else’s lemonade.

LemmyKnowsBest ,

I agree. And I got extreme with it. because when it comes to making sure all the money we earn goes to ourselves and to our own betterment, the biggest obstacle in the way is the egregious cost of housing. In order to get on top of that hurdle, we either have to become part of the real estate industry, or entirely opt out of it. Well I entirely opted out of it.

VanLife. Yup I’ve been doing van life for the last 3 years. Complete with Solar panels, plumbing, climate control, bedroom, kitchen, storage space. I am in my van right now in one of my membership gym’s parking lot. Every dime I earn goes to me and to whatever I choose, NOT to the extortionate housing industry.

meep_launcher ,

I’ve lost all trust in employers. From large corporations to non-profits to mom and pop to tech startups- I’ve been in it all and I learned businesses do 2 things to their employees:

  1. They lie to you
  2. They underpay you

I’m now freelance musician and teacher and I’m on track to make more than any employer paid me. I’m still in debt after having the rug pulled from under me from my last job, but I’m digging my way out on my own. I will never let one person be in control of my income ever again.

fosforus ,

I’m now freelance musician and teacher and I’m on track to make more than any employer paid me.

That’s great! Is there some part of this that you think doesn’t fit into free market capitalism? Seems like you’re living the original american dream there.

ZzyzxRoad ,

Is there some part of this that you think doesn’t fit into free market capitalism?

This might be the most passive aggressive comment I’ve ever read.

The answer of course would be “not working for someone else.”

sailormoon ,
@sailormoon@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/44830202-ce11-4dcb-a70c-ca3fd845c15b.jpegThis you?

LemmyKnowsBest ,

No. There is a classy way to do it. I’m doing it the classy way.

AtariDump ,

Right. Which is why I found this photo:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a14c4ca2-7d2f-48f7-8fb5-2f074bb52df8.jpeg

Sagifurius ,

Yeah no…So every communist either: !) Figures out how to not be a worker and then abandons the thought 2)Actually manages to be in the revolutionary council but may get assassinated later on 3)Never had any motivation at all, writes articles like this.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Bro, stop saying “communist” you are just embarrassing yourself.

Can I put forward a motion that we start treating this cringe McCarthist shit like the edgelord fodder it properly is and make those who use Communist scarecrows the laughingstock they deserve to be ? Like these idiots can’t grasp Market Socialism to save their life and are still high on gas lighting from the 1980’s.

Sagifurius ,

I’m not American or a fan of market socialism, because I understand it perfectly well, not because of a lack of understanding. Socialism always leads to greater restrictions on the person, and you can’t deny that, your cronies literally advocate for it. Take socialized medicine, politicians immediately start passing laws and regulations to restrict your choices in order to keep costs down, and present it as ethical because “we’re all in this together”. Next thing you know, a workers compensation board has reached the level of petty that a carpenter can be fined for wearing a sleeveless shirt in July, a rule passed because of the risk of sunburn to the shoulder. I am not making this up, I was the carpenter.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Oh Baby cakes! I know socialism passes restrictions on people but are you seriously so petty that you blame workers protections nipping you for wearing a light shirt on sunny day as the height of your problems? Courting sunstroke on a worksite isn’t fucking smart.

And I am sorry but if your government is cutting costs to your healthcare you should probably organize because even a good system needs occasional correction. It’s a long fucking way from letting people be swamped with debt to keep their loved ones alive just a little bit longer. I know people in perpetual fear that a spate of unemployment will destroy their long term health because they can’t afford the insurance themselves. No system is perfect but you can whine about it not meeting your standards but private healthcare is only so great as you keep working. You get fucked up at work and all those “choices” you’re so proud of are just gone.

Sagifurius , (edited )

It was an example how fast they can start micromanaging the smallest details, and you knew that. You don’t think a government had time to make rules like that is an issue? You’re intentionally missing the point, they’ve done this to all aspects of society. I want the fucking guns back too, and any semblance of national pride. You organize anything effectively, the current federal government invokes the war measures act and rescinds it immediately as soon as the review process starts, because there was a glaring loophole left in the old legislation, that it doesn’t get reviewed to see if it was necessary, if they quit using the power in time. We literally have zero rights in Canada because of this

Drivebyhaiku , (edited )

… The War Measures Act? The one that was repealed in like the 80’s?

Wait, are you griping about the Emergencies act? The one that requires the sign off of two levels of democraticly elected government Provincial and Federal and a full independantly run inquest every time it is enacted? Ohhhh you’re a Convoy cocksucker! It all makes sense now.

There are exactly two places in the world out of the host of existing democracies that have a constitutional right to firearms with zero public safety checks requiring limitations like licencing and and if you like the US or Guatemala’s gun policy and private healthcare system that much you can just move there instead of ruining this country by trying to turn us into America’s mini-me.

And really? No protections? You really REALLY don’t understand Canadian law at all do you? You know… You could actually read the results of the inquest right? It’s been out for a year.https://web.archive.org/web/…/final-report/

Or maybe you just think even the most soft touch of the protective measures a government makes to protect the welfare of the people and infrastructure key to it’s it’s ability to operate is too harsh ? No wonder you’re so upset, you just can’t handle a democratically elected body telling you that you can’t do absolutely anything you want because you are an entitled whiny baby. Grow up.

Sagifurius ,

So you don’t remember the government claiming it needed a 30 day extension and then suddenly deciding it didn’t need it at all, when the Senate made it clear they were actually going to review whether it was needed? That the two levels you’re talking about? Cause they dodged that you authoritarian clown.

Drivebyhaiku , (edited )

You mean that time the commission heading the report I linked said they wouldn’t have their homework done on time because they still had work to do on the French half of the report to have it ready to got to meet Canada’s national language requirements to have a full bilingual document and then managed to get everything polished off in time with the translation? Yeah they didn’t need two levels of government to rubber stamp a time extension on the report because no one is generally harmed.

Ohhhh no… We’re all gunna fall into ruin because they cared about the longstanding efficacy paperwork… Dumb shit. Don’t believe what your Conservative asswipes try and feed you. They know you won’t bother doing your own fucking homework.

Sagifurius ,

The kangaroo commission that was exactly akin to police investigating themselves after they dodged a risk of real oversight.

Sagifurius ,

cbc.ca/…/emergencies-act-federal-court-1.7091891

Drivebyhaiku ,

What you think this is a gotcha? This is normal process for when a law that has never been enacted before gets used for the first time and gets challenged. This is part of how the system works. Laws are drafted and passed but basically inert until they are used. A law that is never used never has victims or damages. Only once laws are used can their use be challenged if they do not fit their internal rules exactly (because real life is messy and law drafts inexact) then they go under review. If one Justice kicks up a stink it goes to the Supreme court. The Supreme court decides if the laws were correctly followed. News anchors love the red flag stage because it’s prime drama and people gobble up any implications of “government overreach” like it’s proven fact which feeds their suspicions about how they are living under tyranny.

If the Supreme Court does find the government DID overreach then there will be rulings to appease damages. One justice is not the Supreme court. Even if they rule it was an improper use this continues to be a normal exercise of democracy BECAUSE the government will pay and face consequences. It is a ultimately GOOD thing that this is going under review.

The Justice system in Canada is fairly impartial because they are not an elected body but “what is the law” is at heart a philosophy question so not every judge rules the same. That’s why they have a big panel of them for these courts. To ensure that a majority of senior executors of the law conclude fairly.

To be frank this is the normal check to the Government. Those rights you were claiming we don’t have are being defended by this system of internal review with potential consequences FOR THE GOVERNMENT. These are your rights being defended, BUT they have not yet been proven to be violated, basically an alarm has been raised as it should in cases lile this and they have to go figure out if it was a burglar or a cat.

What you people don’t seem to fucking get is that the system has safeguards. They are being used effectivly but all this requires a bunch of people with full time jobs to prepare, debate, deliberate and fine tooth comb everything. It takes time because legal challenges at this level take years to resolve but that doesn’t keep pace with the 24 hour news cycle that wants you stupid, mad and plugged in RIGHT NOW and the Opposition party will use any dirty trick to use your conditioned suspicions to their advantage. You are falling for the grift. You can stay mad and clutch your guns to your chest like a security blanket and wave your flag all day but the system is functioning. This act was in effect only ACTIVE for 10 days of the 90 made possible by the passing of the original permissions. The Government applied the law to their understanding of the draft and accepted the risk of all of this with full knowledge of the legal consequences to the government. Now the courts figure out if the force used was excessive and that will make precedent to limit any future uses of the act.

That’s the system.

Sagifurius ,

It’s not really new legislation. It’s a mildly updated war measures act. Anyways, an actual legal scholar just disagreed with you and the kangaroo commission.

Drivebyhaiku , (edited )

“Mildly”… Uh no. The War measures act conflicted with the Human Rights act and was amended to reflect the civil rights protections. The two do not look even remotely alike.

While I agree the Emergencies Act isn’t “new” legislation because it was drafted 30 years ago I take umbrage with your idea that that is the relevant issue. It sat on the books in mint condition never used for a very long time. It may not be new but the seal is freshly popped.

So.

The government can technically draft any law they want (provided it doesn’t explicitly violate constitutional protections at time of draft) but that it doesn’t mean that the exercise of those laws protect the government from the consequences of using them if the enactment is incorrect or if it violated constitutional rights in the enactment beyond the original scope… A law never used is just legal theory. You can debate it but it was passed and it’s a pain to remove from the books and you usually need to put something in it’s place to do a similar job if it’s there for a “potential” use to defend against something that may or may not happen.

The Emergencies act is in effect brand new in the system because it has only recently effected actual humans and the law can now be applied to evaluate the effect in it’s actual real world use and actual people can be the recipients of compensation for damages.

That “kangaroo Court” is no fucking joke. The government could stand to lose millions of dollars in damages if the door is opened to removing civil case protections… Which is why the Supreme Court is an independent body thay concerns itself with the charge of defending the law. Governments come and go but that’s the oath they take is binding for life or until they retire from the court at age 75.

Elected representatives are not generally experts in law, they are just provided guidance by system appointes experts to protect themselves from potential liability… but those experts are not the Supreme court panel. The justice system is a bunch of people whose life work is the protection and binding law to protect the welfare of the citizens of Canada and the democratic process because they have legitimate enforcement power and perform the duties of being a check to the temporary power of individual administrations.

Sagifurius ,

You aren’t even arguing against the statements made, just blowing irrelevant bullshit.

Drivebyhaiku ,

I see your brain shorted out but your ego is still chugging along. If you can’t see the relevance maybe you should spread some dust bane around that empty head of yours, close up shop and give it a real college try on another day sport.

Sagifurius ,

You don’t even seem to know what in particular I was referring to as being “Kangaroo”.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Enlighten me then.

GrayBackgroundMusic ,

Not gen z, but God bless 'em. I came to the same conclusion after the first round of layoffs at my first job. They laid off the experts because they had higher salaries and kept the lower paid, less skilled workers. It was completely absurd. Then it happened again, and again. Why would I ever expect my work to treat me with any loyalty or concern when no employer has even shown me or mine any?

catalog3115 ,

Companies were never loyal to worker not in 80s and not now. They are loyal to profit 😁

Melatonin ,

OF COURSE we prioritize life over work. Normal people always have. That doesn’t mean we don’t work. What is life without work? Amusing ourselves to death?

BellyPurpledGerbil ,

It’s the imbalance that’s always been the problem. People want to work, but many have to work to survive. So every day is a struggle for survival. It’s no wonder we’re seeing a rise in anxiety disorders, depression, suicide, and general health decline across the board. Some day every late stage capitalist society will normalize the kind of work culture we see in China, South Korea, and Japan, where people are worked to death and have no time for themselves. No time and no safety net for starting families. And paid just enough to get by, not to thrive.

I’m with the younger generations here. I’d rather amuse myself to death than work myself to death.

Melatonin , (edited )

“You better start swimming or you’ll sink like a stone

For the times, they are a-changin’”

-Dylan

Everybody, everybody has to work to survive, from aboriginal people, to the most developed country, to the most socialized country in the world. It has always been thus, and that does not explain rising anxiety, depression, suicide, or health decline.

Abuses of workers and exploitive attempts to move toward a serfdom where no worker owns anything have existed as long as humans have been selfish. It’s not the result of a political system.

The French in the 1700s didn’t lay down and amuse themselves when exploited. Neither did the American colonies. Neither did Russia. Neither did China. It might be time to stop dropping out, give up on comfort, and start the hard work of getting shit fixed.

Hey everybody, you’re anxious and depressed because you know you have to do something about it and you don’t want to. Maybe you even know you’re going to let it happen.

Misconduct ,

I think you took a wrong turn at Facebook and ended up here on accident bro

Melatonin , (edited )

Haha, good one

But seriously, what’s supposed to change? It’s there going to be a friendly helpful Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos or even Elon Musk? Honest public-minded politicians?

Look at Germany right now. HUGE protests.

You aren’t powerless. You just aren’t doing anything.

aidan ,

I disagree, individualistic societies work less. It is people who are taught they have a responsibility to society that work more.

Jakdracula ,
@Jakdracula@lemmy.world avatar

America isn’t a country, it’s just a business. That business minded model for society has drained all decency out of it. The US is a kleptocratic, psychopathic, oligarchy that has rotted out the brains of formerly decent people who have become the monsters we all see in stories like these. It will take multiple generations to fix this, if that is even possible.

GrayBackgroundMusic ,

America isn’t a country, it’s just a business

It’s three businesses in a country sized trench coat.

niktemadur , (edited )

Your brainwashed mesmerized grandparents and their lazy non-voting baby boomer children let Reagan through the door in no uncertain terms, and in that environment the 80s “hostile corporate takeover” and junk bonds fever set in; with bottomless greed as the virus, which like herpes, seems to stick around forever.

EDIT: a word

Tinidril ,

Lazy voters stayed home and let Trump in. (With a strong assist from the Democratic party.). That’s not what happened with Reagan. Reagan had incredibly broad popular support. I don’t know if that’s more or less damning of American voters, but no amount of additional turnout would have saved Carter.

Chakravanti ,

It’s not a psychopath. It’s a sociopath.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

It’s both.

Most CEOs match all the criteria for psychopathy or sociopathy

fosforus ,

Clearly more than the average, but not “most”. Last I remember the figure was something like 12%.

In a small company it sure makes a difference if your senior management are sociopaths, but if the company is large enough that you’ll never see the CEO I’m not sure what difference does it make that he doesn’t care about you personally.

a_wild_mimic_appears ,

those 12% are loud tho, and tend to shift the “company-overton-window” :-(

Chakravanti ,

You’re just wrong. Psychopath is just a less skilled version of the same damn thing. They don’t make it CEO’s except that rare instance of inheriting the wealth. Then, sure, we get a great example of it like Elon. But then they’re just that.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

As a diagnosed sociopath you have it completely backwards.

Chakravanti ,

You would say so wouldn’t you?

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

a future-of-work expert

Saw the writing on the wall and just invented a new job.

Gork ,

“Robots are taking our jerbs”

leo ,
@leo@lemmy.l0l.city avatar

I wish I had that kind of foresight

tigerjerusalem ,

It reeks of those headlines saying that millenials/gen zs are “losing interest in buying cars and houses”.

Motherfucker, interest has nothing to do with it. We can’t afford it!

AngryCommieKender ,

Well interest does come into it. Y’all can’t afford the interest payments on the loans you’d need. Can’t even find a decently priced used car.

tigerjerusalem ,

Oooh, cool word play! I like it.

Also, I find it funny* that we somehow can afford rent but are not qualified to pay a mortgage with monthly payments that costs the same.

*enraging

chrizzowski ,

I think this is a huge part of the problem. Rental property owners are just a liability buffer for the banks. There should be mortgages at a 1% down payment for first time buyers with a proven track record of making rent payments on time. Maybe the rates are a little higher, with the extra interest giving the banks motivation for taking on the extra risk. Then after the first term the owner can renew with a normal rate.

Doesn’t help with the demand issue, but maybe all the rentals will flood the market after nobody is being punished for not having $100k laying around because they’re busy paying someone else’s carrying costs.

Mango ,

We can afford rent?

GnomeKat ,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The article talks about millenials not being able to afford houses…

tigerjerusalem ,

I know… I read about it on other sources too and mixed the headlines too. Sorry for the confusion.

DillyDaily ,

Right, like the majority of my millennial friends also work to live, not live to work, it’s just that living is so damn expensive that after we’re done working enough to pay rent, there’s not many hours left in the week to live.

I’m incredibly privileged. I have no debt, no loans, and housemates to split bills with. I only do 20 hours of paid work per week, and my hourly rate is pretty damn decent for my industry (I’m a coordinator in a community centre, I make $32AUD an hour).

I enjoy my work life balance and I wouldn’t have it any other way, I have time to care for my chronic illness properly, and time for friends, and family, and to volunteer in my community for passion projects that could never in a million years pay the bills.

But being in your mid thirties and splitting rent with other people is tough, I fortunately don’t want marriage or kids, but I can’t see how I’d make it work if I did, babies can’t help me split the rent, and most housemates don’t want to live with a crying baby that isn’t theirs.

So when my friend leaves his fun job for a grind company we know sucks our your soul, but it pays 8x as much and it’s “just for 2 years until the deposit is saved for and the baby is born” then it’s completely understandable why the next 24 months of my friends life is consumed with work. Because he needs that work now, so that he can live later.

But 2 years becomes 5 years becomes 10 years because first it’s the GFC, then it’s the housing bubble, then it’s the mini recession, then it’s covid, now it’s whatever the fuck times were living in.

And at some point for millennials (and many younger Gen X’ers) living became surviving and we work to survive, we don’t even know what thriving looks like.

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

I’m a milennial. I live in a country where we try not to work ourselves to death. Even my employer encourages an active separation between work and personal life. I do not remember what my monthly or yearly salary is, but I am able to have a good personal life with alot of spare time and money for my hobbies.

When I talk to my friends over the pond to the west, I’m always shocked about what I hear. 40+ hour workweeks, hardly any time off from work, etc. I also have a couple of friends in Japan, and their stories are actually worse compared to across the western pond.

Me and my girlfriend rent, which is somewhat unheard of around here. After the war, the economy was based on owning your own home. I made a few stupid choices when I was in my 20s, and I’m paying for them now by renting. The prices of homes are skyrocketing, so that every time I save some money, the prices increase and I have to save more to get a loan. Tough luck, but that’s the way it is. I do not want to get a side hustle just to kill my self getting enough money to buy my home.

HubertManne ,
@HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

many genx i know to and im guessing millenial as well.

Perhapsjustsniffit ,

X’er here. Been doing this my entire life. Fuck the corporate overlords. Everyone should prioritize life over work. Unfortunately for most the world is against them in this regard.

GnomeKat ,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

For you what does prioritizing life over work look like exactly? Genuinely curious.

Psythik ,

It means only working as hard as you’re paid to. If the multi-billion dollar megacorp you’re working for is only paying you $18/hr, you only put in an $18/hr effort; i.e. Work just barely hard enough to not get fired.

GnomeKat ,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I was curious about Perhapsjustsniffit but thanks for your input as well

jjjalljs ,

Yeah, this is generally an ok attitude.

The only exception I think is worth thinking about is “Don’t minimum-ass it in a way that makes it suck for your peers.” Like, don’t work nights and weekends to hit unrealistic goals, agreed. But like I won’t push up half-assed untested code that you’re going to have to maintain. I’m having trouble coming up with good examples off the top of my head.

timmy_dean_sausage ,

That’s the style I generally strive for. I take pride in doing my job well, living up to standards that I set for myself. I also don’t do anything extra and will leave a job site if a job is designed in a way that has me sitting around waiting on other people. I say no to employers/clients all the time and will happily/tactfully explain why, if asked. My employers/clients know that it’s a two way street with me, and I will not be exploited or let anyone on my team (on a given day) be exploited. Unfortunately, I had to spend over a decade being exploited to get to the point in my career were I’m valuable enough to be able to put my foot down. So there’s that…

saintshenanigans , (edited )

The Corp is giving you the bare minimum they are legally required to give you, so you should do the same. This means clocking out at 5 sharp, and not picking up extra responsibilities without a pay increase.

But it also means you still have to put in the minimum required, show up on time, do all of the work. But keep in mind the Corp is the enemy here, not your coworkers. Don’t leave them waiting on you for a deadline if you can bust it out in a few minutes

Psythik , (edited )

That’s a great point and actually a perfect example of how I really feel when I say “work hard enough to not get fired”. Should also add, “so long as it’s not at the expense of your coworkers” to that saying.

AnarchistArtificer ,

For one of my friends, who I respect greatly, it means coming to terms with the fact that it’s not plausible for them to get a job that they’re passionate, in their field of study. They have less identity based attachment to the job they do have, and whilst they do generally like their job, they see it as a means to an end.

They know they probably could find a better job, perhaps even one in their field, but they’re happy with the balance of priorities they have now because it’s mostly working.

stoly ,

The old way was to convince people to devote their lives to the company, only to be laid off when convenient. The new way is to treat a job like a job and live your own life.

saintshenanigans ,

Job keeps me fed, housed, sane, and puts some fun money in my pocket. The second it fails at any one of those, start looking.

jj4211 ,

For me, it’s shutting out work correspondence right at 5pm. Working from home most of the time. If some life circumstance vaguely demands my time in a way that conflicts with work, the life circumstance will win.

It’s not horribly absolute. I did connect when I got a request to help some customers in Ukraine, figuring the very least I could do was help them out. Another customer that generally represents 30-40 million a year of revenue needed help off hours in December, and I obliged. In the event of a genuine emergency I’ll be flexible (but in a hurry to get it over with, even if it means “slap flex tape on it and it should hold things over” sort of approach).

Keep in mind this is grading on a curve. A close colleague works in person at the office 6 or 7 days a week, generally for 9 or 10 hours, and on top of that spends much of his home time remotely working on things too. He complains that if not everyone matches his work ethic that we won’t hit “the schedule”, and I respond if that’s the case, then there’s a problem with “the schedule”, not with people failing to work enough. Eternally poor planning with arbitrarily declared deadlines are not a legitimate source of emergency, and I won’t play along with that.

Perhapsjustsniffit , (edited )

I’m 50 now. I’ve never held a job more than 5-6 years my entire life and I have changed professions many many times. I never bought into that work till you die life. I only worked to be able to afford the things I actually wanted and I prioritized adventure over stability. I moved all around the country (Canada) and travelled internationally by holding a job long enough to get to the next place and so on. I’ve recently learned I probably have ADHD which could account for some of my lifestyle choices.

After I was married my wife and I decided to start working toward a zero bill goal. We paid off all of our bills and eliminated wherever we could. We prioritized getting in nature and our own form of travel over keeping up with the Jones’. We saved everything else and invested what seemed a meager $500 into canadian cannabis just prior to legalization. Mostly on a whim. I personally learned to trade and moved that until it was enough to buy a house and some land where no one else wanted to live. We put some minor infrastructure in to help us grow food and invested in our land. All other investments, savings and any so called retirement went towards being mortgage free with enough space and the infrastructure to grow our own food. We have zero savings and less need for even a bank account than most. We recognise we were and are fortunate to get to where we are now. There was a lot of luck along the way.

Now we have a family. Our house bills include yearly taxes, internet and unfortunately power. Our truck is 16 years old and paid for. We forage, fish and hunt and grow pretty much all our own veg. I don’t work due to serious illnesses (yay Canada that I’m not way in debt there) and my spouse works about 5 months out of the year at a seasonal job so I don’t drive her crazy. We make less than $35,000/ Canadian a year and that’s enough. Our three kids wear second hand clothes except for outerwear because being dry and warm is important, they know how to pirate and adblock and they can grow food and cook. Our wants are few which makes our needs even less.

recapitated ,

Yeah I mean mad magazine was talking about gen x like this back in the 90s. But the media needs to pretend everything today is new or they’d have nothing to print.

jj4211 ,

Also, if you see some of the articles and movies from the 60s/70s, they were saying all this stuff about baby boomers too.

I saw somewhere where they gathered examples of “people in their 20s don’t want to work the same way the folks in their 40s did at their age” dating back to at least the mid nineteenth century.

I’ve also seen the point made that a lot of the assumptions about the boomers having it nice and easy comes from media products that strategically wanted to frame things as doing great, as they thought that’s what drove media consumption, folks wanting to feel good about the world. Now the general understanding is keeping people in an eternal state of panic and dread will keep those eyeballs glued to the product. Bad stuff happened back then too, and plenty of it should have been a more prominent source of dread by today’s standards.

Further, to the extent it was true, it was mostly a USA thing coming from a couple of phenomenon: -Every other major industrial economy had been severely impacted by World Wars I && II, with USA barely having a scratch. So for a good while, most of the economic activity favored the USA across the globe. -Factors like racism where huge swaths of the USA population ‘didn’t count’ when people were thinking how good things were going.

stoly ,

Checking in. We’re some of the few who didn’t adopt the boomer dream.

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

But we’re also demographically a lot smaller than boomers, millennials or zoomers, so we kind of flew under the radar.

stoly ,

Yep. Gen X didn’t really exist.

BeautifulMind , (edited )
@BeautifulMind@lemmy.world avatar

Also genX, I went hard in corporate life for a long time, survived many rounds of layoffs and watched good friends go for reasons that are bad ones- until one fine day I was laid off with 18,000 others. Meanwhile they kept hiring H1B workers and doing stock buybacks and doing mass-layoffs every 2 years to keep the regional labor market full of competition and wages depressed. Knowing that they’re not interested in keeping their promises of stability and prosperity goes a long ways towards me never going above and beyond

Drivebyhaiku ,

Agreed, , basically what the article here is saying that the kids were watching us and they don’t trust anybody. Hell, I never heard my Grand dad yell louder about what I am making. He worked union construction in the 80’s in the city I live in now and though I make more than a lot of construction guys I know on a similar docket I’m only making about 3$ more than what he did back then. He ranted for an hour when I told him what the standard rents and apartment sizes in my area. There is nothing so satisfying as having an stenetorian 86 year old positively enraged on behalf of the kids about their pay, working conditions and quality of life.

It’s been my personal mental balm to the placid incuriousity and damn near sociopathic lack of empathy I catch off some of the boomers and the elder millenials who picked up trades work immediately after highschool.

raynethackery ,

Also GenX. Not being able to afford treatment for mental illness robbed me of 20 years of living. I had better insurance in the 90s than I do now. Never thought I would miss my HMO from then.

aidan , (edited )

“If you like your plan you can keep it”

youtu.be/tLOV4oUXawg?si=vyTfxboTQUdLrcGD

fosforus ,

Everyone should prioritize life over work.

I agree. But also: nobody should expect others to carry them. You have to balance these two things in your life.

Since many people here are American, I feel like I need to clarify a bit. I live in a country where almost nobody works over 7,5h per day. And when they do, every hour is compensated for, sometimes with 150%/200% surcharge. I find it extremely weird that some people in a 1st world country work overtime for free, or generally speaking “work” over 8 hours per day in intellectual work on a regular basis.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • [email protected]
  • All magazines
    •