replicat ,

Seems pretty selfish to me

/s

catalog3115 ,

How is this selfish?

Gargantuanthud ,

It was sarcasm, hence the /s

fosforus ,

Seems pretty selfish to me

Yes

/s

No

ConstantPain ,

Don’t you think about the poor dividends?

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

I wish I could tell somehow, to people, that this is what I did. I chose “nope”. It’s not socially acceptable. Is there a hotline I can call?

catalog3115 ,

What do you mean? There is ofcourse propoganda to work hard for less.

anarchy79 , (edited )
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

No I fight the system from without. And talk about an unpaid, thankless job.

I opted out, the social contract is void, I don’t accept living on the terms proposed, I’m not signing myself over to modern slavery while supporting a system devastating the planet just so some fat fucks can eat burgers all day. I would literally rather live on the street- and I do. Change has to come from people saying “no”. Guess that’s not for everyone, because by the time they get a clue, they’re already knee high in the system and can’t break free from it except at tremendous personal cost. Not everyone is willing to pay it, but I can’t reconcile that with my base conscience and if nobody steps up then we’re fucking doomed.

fosforus ,

If you can live without working, go ahead. If not, you work.

maynarkh ,

I think it’s more of a “do you grind for that promotion or do you do just enough work to not get fired?” question. The system heavily relies on people believing they provide value to society through their work, and the fact that doing your job well is rewarding in itself. I see my whole generation being burnt out of this however.

fosforus , (edited )

I see my whole generation being burnt out of this however.

I see that happening too, but at the same time I’m also witnessing their workload and demands on them being smaller than what it used to be (already at school), and their work conditions being greatly improved compared to previous times. There’s clearly a systemic problem somewhere, as I don’t think whole generations can suddenly be simply worse than previous ones, but at the same time it’s crystal clear that the problem is not “too much work”.

Jonathan Haidt has written about this a few times before[0], and his latest book[1] is coming in a few months. Should be interesting.

[0] www.thecoddling.com

[1] www.amazon.com/…/0593655036

KevonLooney ,

That first book seems like conservative whining about being “shouted down” on college campuses. I think this guy is too young to have experienced the 60s, because college campuses were a lot rowdier then.

His ideas don’t look plausible to me at all. It sounds like he just wants attention.

fosforus , (edited )

His ideas don’t look plausible to me at all. It sounds like he just wants attention.

Perhaps read the book first? I’m sure it’s available from piracy sites if you don’t want him to have your money. Ignoring a thing you disagree with initially is a great way to never improve intellectually.

maynarkh ,

because college campuses were a lot rowdier then

I’m just saying that the university experience of my grandparents’ generation in the 50s included trying to fight off the Soviet 8th Mechanized Army and becoming NYT Man of the Year.

That said, education becoming shittier definitely is a phenomenon across cultures.

ZzyzxRoad ,

I’m also witnessing their workload and demands on them being smaller than what it used to be (already at school), and their work conditions being greatly improved compared to previous times

This is exactly the kind of “back in my day” invalidating, subordinating bs that many workers, not just gen z, are sick of putting up with. No one wants to be talked down to, or to have to put up with constant boomer finger wagging. On the other hand, it’s obvious when people talk like this that they’re unable to accept how much things change, and regardless of age, shows how out of touch they are with what the average worker puts up with.

I’m sure the people (and children) working in factories in the industrial revolution probably had it easier than those who came before them too. Maybe they were spoiled for fighting for an eight hour workday and safety regulations /s

Millennials are some of the first to have to be “always on” with constant emails, and Slack, and companies monitoring their every move on their phones and laptops, and hiring managers scouring their social media before agreeing to hire them, people getting fired for having OF pages, and having to constantly post bs all over LinkedIn just to stay relevant since there’s no way they’ll be able to keep the same job for more than a few years. And that’s just at their main job, nevermind the two other app-based “hustles” they’re forced to have that pay less than minimum wage. Just because the demands are different doesn’t mean they’re any lower, nor any better.

fosforus , (edited )

Millennials are some of the first to have to be “always on” with constant emails, and Slack, and companies monitoring their every move on their phones and laptops,

I totally agree. And in addition to “having to be” always on, we very often also choose to be always on. This is one of the biggest problems of our generation, I think, and I’m not seeing any attempts at fixing it. If anything, we’re trying to make it worse.

maynarkh ,

My experience has been that, at least in education, it’s inefficient work. My parents got to learn more and study less. They were taught stuff my classes just didn’t have time for, while their school days lasted from 8:00 to 14:00, mine went from 7:00 to 15:30. I was bored through most of it.

It’s not “too much work”, it’s “too much make-work”.

Da_Boom ,
@Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

You shouldn’t live to work, that’s a terrible, shitty, boring, sole sucking way to survive, sure some people enjoy that way, but those guys are the minority, or theyve managed to make their hobby a job so they’re not actually working a day in their life, just getting paid to enjoy their hobby

You work to live. You do just enough work so you can go and enjoy yourself. I generally try not to work too much overtime, and I refuse to be on call unless I get desperate for a cash injection.

Working to live is the one reason I haven’t moved out of home - I pay A$450 a fortnight in board, and that’s far less than most rental properties, (who usually require that but weekly but for a residence that is far worse than where I currently live) and the only room and clothes I have to keep clean are my own.

I got my hobbies and I indulge in them regularly - I game or read my book on the bus to and from work (recently managed to obtain a steam deck for on the go gaming) I livestream when I want to, even if no one’s watching. I go visit my friends on weekends - usually an hour out of my way down the back roads, because I like driving the winding roads and it’s a bonus that it just happens to unironically be the fastest route to their place.

My job isn’t too stressful, and honestly I’m not wanting for much more than I already have. And because I live at home, Im not in debt (apart from my government university debt, but added taxes slowly pay that off, and there’s no deadline to pay it off in full) and am actually saving for a house deposit in the future.

I’m happy, I mean it won’t last, I’ll eventually have to move out - my parents won’t want me living with them forever. Wether I can save enough to get a deposit on a mortgage or have to rent remains to be seen. Hopefully the housing market collapses like it needs to.

ConstantPain ,

My work pays me to work from 9 to 5, which uses the best part of my day. I’m not giving anything more than that.

madcaesar ,

I’d even argue that’s too fucking much

ConstantPain ,

And I would agree! 4h top is all I need to do my daily job.

madcaesar ,

IMO the weekend should be longer than the fucking work week. We have this shit backwards. Work is 5 days and then we have barely 1 day to relax, since you need one of the weekend days for errands.

Cowlitz ,

I loved working 4 10s (and at that place it was more like 4 13s) because it gave 1 day to relax, 1 to run errands/go to weekday appointments, and 1 to clean the house/relax. Id much rather work longer 4 days a week and have an extra day off the workday is so long anyway especially with a commute that I can’t do anything after work anyway (and I was too tired to).

KevonLooney ,

If you work from home, you can do things during the work week too. Say you have a meeting where you only talk for 5 minutes. You clean or do chores the rest of the time. Just wear and earbud and put yourself on mute.

You can have your whole weekend off. I’m never going back to in office work unless the pay is doubled. It takes up all your time.

madcaesar ,

I know but that’s all still very stressful.

Kyrgizion ,

My stepfather worked his entire life like a goddamn donkey. Even when he was supposed to be on pension his old boss still called him and he actually went and worked for him for free. Today, he’s practically crippled from all the physical strain he put his body though. His ex-boss, meanwhile, is rich as fuck and doesn’t give a fuck, while my stepfather has the absolute minimum pension and no healthcare.

My grandparents, on the other hand, had a very different story. My grandfather worked for the same employer for 50+ years, never missed a day, and had a decent wage AND a pension which he could access at 55 years of age. They were the last generation to receive their part of the social contract, but the generation of my parents and myself are completely missing out.

Small wonder that the young’uns have eyes in their heads and the werewithal to say “No way, not for me!”.

Nobsi ,
@Nobsi@feddit.de avatar

The only reason i work 80 hours a week is so that my employees and my future children don’t have to have the same luck as me.
If i had a regular life i would not ever work 40 hours.

I see how little my dad gets as a pension and how much my grandpa got. I will not receive anything.

LifeOfChance ,

I was criticized for years about this approach to work so I’m glad others see it now. If work yielded results sure I’d focus a little more but as it’s gotten worse I can’t even have hobbies because I can’t afford to get into anything financially, mentally, and because of time of working multiple jobs to make it by…

zuck ,
@zuck@lemmy.l0l.city avatar

we are the dividends

WholeEnchilada ,

Could gen Z become the new gen X? As an Xer, I feel some solidarity with gen Z.

KuroeNekoDemon ,

My mom can see the corruption with modern work culture and she’s Gen X and knows the same reasons I do as to why people don’t want to work. I think Gen Z, Millenials and Gen X are starting to stand up to the Boomers shitty work culture. We just want to be treated with kindness and have a good work environment how hard is that?

aidan ,

I’m GenZ, it has nothing to do with stability, it has to do with what I want to exchange. I don’t want to exchange majority of my energy for more money than I need, I want to earn enough to live, and not work more than is required for that.

Isthisreddit ,

“for more money than I need” - that’s the real trick, employers aren’t exactly looking to give people more money than they need, it’s sort of the exact opposite typically

aidan ,

Eh, my current job, it’s more money than I need, but also way more time and energy commitment than I want.

Isthisreddit ,

I’d say your doing better than many if you have surplus money! But to your point, I do agree slaving away all day to make someone else rich sucks

aidan ,

This is GenZ we’re talking about, I’m from a fairly LCOL area, so most people I know, don’t have many responsibilities and rent and food aren’t too high. So I don’t think for my situation it’s that uncommon.

Crystal_Shards64 , (edited )

Lol I’m just about to ask my boss about raises this year. Let’s see what happens… 100% of my pay is going into cost of living right now

Edit: no idea as she hasn’t heard anything from HR. lmao I doubt we’ll be seeing much of anything even though we increased profits by 4 million a year this year.

piecat ,

And yet most of us are making way less than we need

aidan ,

In GenZ?

unreasonabro ,

dem bosses tho

kowalski ,

To add, what you need NOW is not what you need over your lifetime. Health insurance is needed regardless of your pay (outside most folks’ 20’s) and retirement savings are exactly what you don’t need now, but eventually will.

assassin_aragorn ,

I want to earn enough to live, and not work more than is required for that.

Management couldn’t fathom this at my first job. They’d tell us that everyone couldn’t be CEO but there were still great careers, and they didn’t understand when we asked about jobs where we wouldn’t climb the ladder necessarily, just do meaningful work.

TCB13 , (edited )
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

And then you’ve the fucktards who say in the WEF and other places that “people have to suffer” in order to be more productive / want to work.

They have seen the legacy of all these broken promises. In the old days and in many parts of the West, they would promise you if you worked for 30 years, you have this defined benefit pension, you have retiree medical care, etc. None of that exists today.

But at the end of the day it was the same fucktards who broke the social contract when it comes to work and benefits.

I’m only as good as the value I’m delivering today, and so these are the terms under which I want to work, and you either meet them or not.'"

That’s the right approach to the job market and I’m not even Gen Z. The current state of things, like expecting people to work multiple jobs, underpaying, firing to then hire at half the rate, constant layoffs, unreasonable demands and managers it’s all bullshit that people can’t stand anymore.

numerous Gen Zers are “quiet quitting” and taking a step back at work because they’re painfully aware that their hard work could essentially amount to nothing.

When a employers and governments “loudly quit” on people’s life’s and expectations that’s what they get.

In one survey last year, 74% of managers said the generation was the most challenging to work with.

How many of those managers are 50+ years old, with all they ever wanted and a sense their hard work payed off?

sandevistan ,

Could amount to nothing

Read between the lines here, article writer 🥲, everything amounts to nothing. Nobody wants their life to pass by unlived

Old people are impossible to talk to, painfully neurotic and stupid and obsessed with collecting clothing and electronics. They have zero compassion. They know the social contract is broken and they keep telling us to make the same decisions as them knowing we will get nothing for it and die

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Old people are impossible to talk to, painfully neurotic and stupid (…) They know the social contract is broken and they keep telling us to make the same decisions as them knowing we will get nothing for it and die

I guess this is the story of Brexit? The UK shouldn’t have allowed people over 50 years old to vote on that referendum, because they aren’t likely so see the effects of the decision and they’re still delusional about a great empire that can stand alone while they watch American TV shows on a TV made in China and a chair designed in Sweden…

sandevistan ,

Well I’m American so maybe I should clarify only 10% of the people here even currently get to grasp the American dream and statistically it’s white people who get to be homeowners and live in the suburbs and be paranoid and rude to everybody including each other.

We are not doing well everything is falling apart infrastructure wise even in wealthy areas. You better be on the Amazon or Microsoft campus etc if you want it kept up.

Brexit is part of a larger pattern too, we’re basically trying to make Europe Asia-exit lol. And in the same way it will benefit Asia long run.

Meanwhile we try to turn you guys into Senegal #2, a source of crude oil to refine, and a market to buy our refined oil! As long as you continue to develop more drilling without refinement it’s the only way. Geopolitical economy 🗺️

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

We are not doing well everything is falling apart infrastructure wise even in wealthy areas.

Just to clarify I’m not American nor British and the situation here is mostly what you describe on that phrase. The European dream died before it even started.

sandevistan ,

Ah makes sense. Another example. We like completely destroyed German manufacturing with these energy prices in the process of trying to sever the region from Russia lol

noobnarski ,

I wouldnt say its the energy prices that are destroying German industry (I am German too), but the lack of innovation and way too much bureaucracy (and no, that doesnt mean we should lower emission standards, etc., but we should simplify processes and remove rules that serve no one).

sandevistan ,

It’s making it pretty non competitive and that makes things harder down the line, it’ll become more apparent bc it’s all about keeping up yeah? Same thing happening in USA, due to financialization of fuckin everything and wnting to export labor to countries we have the upper hand on

Look at the whole TSMC expansion debacle

sandevistan ,

“Old people” is pretty inaccurate but a lot of cool old people can be presumed to be dead as well

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

I guess this is the story of Brexit? The UK shouldn’t have allowed people over 50 years old to vote on that referendum, because they aren’t likely so see the effects of the decision and they’re still delusional about a great empire that can stand alone while they watch American TV shows on a TV made in China and a chair designed in Sweden…

Errrr, so let’s take away the right of people to vote when they hit the age of 50?

LOL, do you think we will be this relevant/irrelevant when we turn 50? Brexit was dumb as fuck but that doesn’t justify stripping away people’s rights.

sandevistan ,

They can’t be serious lol they’re just waffling nonsense

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

And I’m supposed to guess that how? From the /s they didn’t add to the end of their post, or?

sandevistan ,

Oh I wasn’t saying you were dumb, they’re dumb

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

No no, what’s your take on this? lemmy.world/comment/6915894

sandevistan ,

Dumb article that bowlderizes actual labor issues into stale generational politics takes that have been pushed by consultants since the 90s as blandly palatable fodder for this kind of writing.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

That’s fair.

sandevistan ,

The generational politics thing irks me because it’s an example of advertisers openly trying to divide people’s families and yet that gets taken seriously by “muh family values” conservatives.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Go look for stats on the referendum, if it wasn’t for the 50+ years old people the UK would still be in the EU. It’s not about “let’s take away the right of people to vote” it is about “how can we let people take vote for something that wont ever affect them either way?”. I bet there was someone voting to leave that died of old age the next day, should that person have as much voting power as someone who’s on their 30’s and had to live an extra 50 years with the fallout of the decidion?

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. Your right to vote doesn’t change based on how many days you have left to live. By this logic, maybe we should ban everyone with cancer from voting too?

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

doesn’t change

But maybe it should for certain subjects.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Good luck changing the world to the worse. I’m sure you’ll do a stellar job.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Old people are impossible to talk to, painfully neurotic and stupid

Could I ask, how old are you and why do you find it that way? :/ Never had this experience. Maybe my grandpa is a grumpy old fuck but otherwise “old people” are just “people”.

sandevistan ,

Old ppl in the suburbs lol, this only goes for a small subset. I’m reconsidering things after meeting potential inlaws tbqhbbq

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

So you mean, specifically older Americans (?) living in the suburbs?

Also again how old are you? A bit curious.

sandevistan ,

Yep. Early twenties. There are plenty of awesome old people in this country. Shitty paranoid homeowners who wpuld enjoy aprtheid south aftica congregate in suburbs

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

I feel like the coolest old people I have met were Americans who travel.

sandevistan ,

I hear Americans are the worst tourists lol, and the most likely to be there to buy a woman for that matter

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

No, none of the ones I saw in Europe.

sandevistan ,

A lot of the worst behavior is concentrated in regions people go for a discount like Bali Indonesia, India, Mexico, the Philippines, even Japan and SK, pretty much anywhere non European, I’m not surprised to hear you say that, because Euros and the upper class of saudi arabia and SK and aus and canada and US+NATO and europe is all alike in this way

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Funny, reminds me how some Swedish men fly to Thailand to do things they cannot easily/safely do in Sweden, like pay for sex or do drugs.

sandevistan ,

Thailand is a perfect example thanks forgot to mention that.

We also can kind of offer high end “vice services” like gambling and debauchery and whatnot to the elite of gulf states even better if they’re very conservative and we can blackmail the hell out of them afterwards. The elite of the world coming to Las Vegas and Dubai and Thailand and Bali alike I mean

Illuminostro ,

He thinks anyone over 25 is old.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

I feel sad for people who cannot relate to other age groups :(

Jakdracula ,
@Jakdracula@lemmy.world avatar

My grandfather was a soldier so my dad could be a farmer so I could be a poet.

xX_fnord_Xx ,

My grandfather was a garbage man so my father could be a fireman so I could stock grocery shelves whilst writing the Great American Novel on my days off.

KuroeNekoDemon ,

Hi Gen Z here I got diagnosed with Complex PTSD and Psychosis after a very awful and abusive work environment that’s ended in the Ministry of Labour thinking of fining the employer and me suing them for reprising against me for calling the ministry to get the abuse to stop. It has nothing to do with money it has everything to do with being treated with respect and not getting abused. And these employers wonder why no one wants to work for them if they’ll just come out with a mental health, psychiatric or psychological disorder

vermyndax ,

I’m GenX, and I spent about ~25 years in the corporate racket before I realized that they don’t give a fuck. I’m all about living now as well, and I encourage others to do the same.

assassin_aragorn ,

The pandemic was a big mask off moment for corpos.

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