I don’t think any rewrite would be needed. Almost the whole season was filmed not knowing it was the last. The few scenes they filmed with that knowledge were just to put a nice cap on the series. Probably something like the last scene in All Good Things, which wouldn’t have prevented a TNG season 8 if the winds suddenly changed.
That said, I think the most we can hope for is for this to encourage them to incorporate more Disco elements into Academy. I don’t see them backing down on this being the final season.
One gets the feeling that Paramount senior management have been paying more attention to review-bombed scores on Rotten Tomatoes, IMDb etc. and YouTubers than to actual viewing minutes and audience size.
While Nielsen stats are only for the United States, it’s clear that Paramount has been doing vastly better by Discovery than any of the naysayers have claimed.
Remember when every new episode came out the ragebait youtube channels would proclaim it has already been super secret tripled cancelled? And yet they kept producing more episodes post-cancellation for reasons I never quite could follow?
They're also paying attention to when they need to renegotiate contracts. After the strikes, studio leadership has really doubled down on not giving an inch on writers' and actors' salaries even if it means cancelling a successful show. It's more valuable to them to keep workers in a state of perpetual gig work than anything they'd make from the show.
Contract length is a fair point. But so is the over reliance on US SGA talent in a show that’s trying to reach a global audience and represent a future that’s diverse.
Discovery had only five seasons but in calendar years, in which contracts are written, it was seven years from production of the pilot. So, regardless of the impact of the strikes, further seasons would have required higher salaries for Martin-Green, Rapp, Cruz and Wiseman.
One has to wonder if that was a consideration in the decision on Lower Decks as well.
Also, while federal and provincial governments give significant tax credits for the ACTRA-contract labour costs of Canadian and Ontario resident actors (50%), up until Rennie joined this season the Discovery main cast were all full SGA scale, although the seasonal ‘big bass’ have all been Canadian or resident since season 2. That can make a huge difference to the overall cost.
All to say, if talent salaries were the key driver of decisions, CBS Studios should put more casting in the hands of their Canadian casting director.
One has to then of Canadian/resident main cast will also put a cap on the potential number of seasons for SNW.
It will be interesting to see whether CBS Studios will go for the tax credit when they cast the cadet roles for Starfleet Academy.
I had to stop Picard's first episode because I burst out laughing when the superhero jump up the stairs happened.
I finished 2 seasons of Discover before I stopped watching.
I don't think I'll go back and try to finish either series, but I could stand DISC way longer.
I made it to about episode 5 with Discovery (the one with the security officer getting mauled because she walked into that cage with the wild animal unarmed) by actively giving it more chances than it deserved, not sure how you managed to watch a whole two seasons of it.
Lorca got me through discovery for a season or two and then he was gone, I don't think I watched anything beyond it. I hear it's only gotten worse, somehow
For me the first season was arguably one of the worst. I didn't start enjoying it until around S3 with the time jump, but it's been hit or miss since then. I just can't stand how, for lack of a better word, sappy the show can be with the constant "cut to crewperson's face giving an approving nod while Burnham gives a motivational, whispered speech backed by heartwarming music." It all seems so over the top, lazy, and gimmicky. Rather than write better stories, they want to pull on your heartstrings with cheap tropes to keep people watching.
The last season of discovery is the only one I have left and I'm finishing it begrudgingly. I really don't like that show. Huge fan of strange new worlds, but discovery felt like a cw version of a Disney star wars show.
Nog I think is the easiest recast. It could be explained just that the character aged. Odo would be harder. He could be a CGI character with a voice actor but that doesn’t sound good. It could be a plot point that both characters are killed prior to the beginning of the story and the story involves resolving the mystery of what happened and why.
All and all I think it’s unlikely we’ll see any kind of continuation of DS9, which is unfortunate because it’s my favorite series.
“Rémy-Luc Julian Michel Auberjonois is an American actor. He is best known for his recurring role as Mr. Albin in the television series Weeds and as Dr. Emerson on the television series Mad Men.” - Wikipedia page.
He does like so much like him, however with Odo that isn’t the most important thing. The voice is much more important and René’s voice is so very distinctive.
@Salamendacious@Evilcoleslaw In Ira Steven Behr's doc "What we left behind", he get the original writers brainstorm a new season of DS9 and they promptly kill Nog in the first episode.
I would have misgivings of using the character with René, but it wouldn’t be hard. He’s changeling, god dammit. It was one of the weird conceits of DS9 that odo kept the same humanoid form, and so the changeling who interacted with him did too (along with implausible excuses about “not being able to master the humanoid face”, or the changing virus).
Having spent time with the founders, you could easily recast “Odo” as a dozen different characters of different species and genders. Perhaps he has transcended the attachment to a single form that he developed from living among solids? I feel like watching some good actors do Odoesque performances could be quite interesting!
Yeah, that’s a really good solution. There would have to be something that gives the audience a clue that we’re dealing with the same character I think so the actors would have to really collaborate on their collective characters. That’s really a great idea.
odo is easier. Find a similar looking actor who can do a similar voice and say he got better at making a realistic human look. no more makeup needed even.
That’s possible. Rene gave odo a real presence though. I don’t know how well another actor would mimic it. They could always do something like interstellar. That character who was left on the ship by himself for all those years was markedly different from the character before they left for the water planet.
As much as I wish they could all be in a DS9 revival I don’t see why they have to. Sisko ascended, Odo returned to the founders, and it would be easy to say that Nog is just stationed on the far side of the Federation or on a deep space mission. The first two could easily be off screen presences who effect the story but are never seen. That still leaves Bashir, Dax, Kira, Worf, and Jake. Could be a smaller, more personal story that follows up on plot elements from DS9. Like what they tried to do with the first two seasons of Picard, just hopefully better written.
If they hire outstanding writers then I’d be interested in a show about Jake after his dad disappeared. Follow that timeline and show Jake’s struggle. It doesn’t really need to happen though and it would be very high risk.
I mean, DS9 wasn’t as popular as TNG back then – both in terms of ratings and fan reception. Many considered it the black sheep of the Trek family. Berman focused on Voyager. So it was chrystal clear to every fan with even half a brain that DS9 would never get a movie. Perhaps Voyager had a tiny chance but by the time it concluded its run viewership had been in steady decline, and then Nemesis tanked.
Voyager had consistently mediocre writing. I, somewhat cynically, always thought the reason moore did Battlestar was to show everyone what Voyager could have been.
Wow I have to agree with this. Voyager episodes often start out with an interesting premise, the show progresses too slowly then in the last 2 minutes: “I have to go now my planet needs me.” and the episode is over instantly.
Ohh man, the “demon planet” melting voyager clone episode really set my teeth on edge with this.
Super interesting premise, the metal clones fly out on their own ship, invent/discover new warp tech that is super useful, almost get to earth, but then begin to melt. People die, Tom gets dark and broody in a realistic way, but then as its getting good they all start to die to wrap it up in one episode. So they super warp home to the devil planet, but they realize they arent going to make it, so they fire off a “stable bouy” about who they are/what they learned. By pure, totally realistic happenstance, this buoy both doesn’t survive and the actual voyager is passing nearby at the time, just close enough to see their destroyed remains.
In the insane vastness of space, the chances of these two ships with vastly different propulsion capabilities passing by each other in the very minutes one of them disintegrates is so unlikely as to be nearly impossible, and of course it failed in a way that fully resets any boons actual voyager might have gained from it.
It would have been way more poignant to have the bouy survive, but to have voyager well past it, not able to learn from it because they had gone beyond. To never have them even see or interact with their copies, just to have those copies set out on their same journey but fail, with only a lone bouy to remember them by. A true reminder, a real boon, but one outside of voyagers reach by random chance. Actual life.
But nah, just reset the whole promise of the episode in the last 2 minutes instead.
The worst for me was the episode where Tom Paris breaks the trans warp threshold and becomes an omnipresent god and starts evolving 1000 years a minute.
Janeway realizes it and says- this will change our very existence. Wow! but instead of exploring this they turn him and Janeway into giant lizards then in the last few minutes the doctor just magically changes then back- The end.
WTF, such a waste. There must have been a writers strike that year.
However what I don’t think is justified is the label as one of the worst Star Trek episodes. Is it nuts? Yes. Is it annoying that they have the technology to bring everyone back to Earth and simply de-lizard them after the trip, and then it’s never brought up again? Also yes.
But it’s nowhere near the worst episodes because it’s neither offending and un-Star Trek (like TNG’s Code of Honor) nor is it boring. It’s actually pretty entertaining for the first 35 or so minutes. It just goes off the rails at the end.
Paris is genuinely entertaining in it. The look of perverse amusement as he pops his own tongue off, total brilliance. It’s the exact amount of goofy that the premise demands.
If it weren’t for tuvok and the doctor I don’t think I could have finished that series. It’s the only trek I’ve never really rewatched too. Not counting the modern shows.
Here is an excerpt from The Fifty Year Mission (book 2) by Mark A. Altman and Edward Gross. I highly recommend those books. They are super insightful about the behind-the-scenes stuff from the first 50 years of Star Trek.
God damn. I’m almost done watching DS9 for the first time right now and was planning on diving into Voyager right after. But this makes me not want to.
Voyager is alright. It’s just very uneven. What drags it down is that the producers only very rarely took big swings that had a lasting impact on the characters or the show. Voyager excels at being episodic television. There are a bunch of stinkers (as there are on any TV show) but when it’s good, it’s really good. It has some of the best Trek episodes.
Maybe use an episode guide with ratings (for example Jammer’s Reviews, Ex Astris Scientia or IMDb) and skip the episodes with low ratings.
Its odd that Voyager had a better chance at a film. DS9 had better ratings when they were both on and received more critical acclaim. Yet somehow Voyager has remained more in the popular consciousness and had more enduring popularity. I think a lot of it had to do with Berman favoring Voyager. Its reruns also saw a lot more syndication. I was a teenager in the 2000’s so I only ever saw reruns of 90’s trek growing up and it was usually Voyager and rarely TNG. I never saw any DS9 until it became available on streaming.
The DS9 set was complicated. You had obstructions and levels. Those would need to be replicated with green screen props and they tend to not bother with those. At best you’ll get uncanny valley like the Romulan Bridge in S1 Picard. Works for a specific scene, but isn’t something to dwell in.
I truly hope there is some success to this. If they want to cancel the show then fine. I’m not going to be happy with it but I’d get it. But removing it as well? Y’all have Code of Honor still up on Paramount Plus but will remove a show for kids? Fuck right off.
For the record I’m not saying they should remove anything. Just that they’ve got weird priorities around removals.
I don’t agree at all. I always liked how long the seasons were for TNG, DS9,and Voyager. Also the low episode count at the moment isn’t about quality over quantity it just is less work for the cast and crew. Honestly the more Star Trek the better. Even the worst episodes of Trek have their charm aside from TNG Season 1 Episode 3 “Code of Honor”. Some of the TOS episodes haven’t aged the best but its the 60s so whatever.
Michelle Hurd has been championing longer seasons of television for the sake of job security. We really just need to accept that 10 episode series are not there to “cut out the bad stuff” but to put the cast and crew in a worse position. Produce less content, if it “flops” then you’ve only spent so much and can cut everyone loose and recoup the loss elsewhere instead of investing jn the future.
I think more episodes of SNW would do the show a lot of good. Right now, the status quo (in my eyes, at least) is gimmick episodes. We’re not getting nearly enough “normal” Trek. Season 2 specifically has mostly been gimmicks, crossovers, and bottle episodes. You really need to construct before you deconstruct, make a status quo before you break it. It would make these big episodes stand out more.
spoilerI don’t mind a little bit of tune in next year but to chop it off like that is totes BS
So…
More episodes would allow SNW to be more things for more people, and try to color outside the lines of traditional sci fi drama. Some people love the quirky episodes, and that’s cool. I am not into musicals; however, if there is one “that time I went to band camp” episode a year that doesn’t fill a 10 ep slot, ok, whatever. 10eps is REALLY SHORT.
That might be good, but I don’t think the actors would be able to take it. There are already bottle episodes like “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow”.
Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow is definitely not a “bottle episode”. Bottle episodes are episodes which require minimal or no additional budget for SFX, sets, etc beyond what is already available from previous/upcoming episodes. They exist as a money saving device which was necessary for shows to run 26 episode seasons and shell out for expensive productions while remaining within their budget. Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow wouldn’t have been the most expensive episode to film, but there’s still a lot of exterior scenes, VFX, etc which make it quite a bit pricier than an episode almost entirely confined to a handful of existing sets.
It is a happy accident (whether by chance, or because the format forces an emphasis on the stories Trek has been best at telling) that Trek bottle episodes tend to include some of the best writing and character moments of the various series. This naturally leads to some confusion about what a “bottle episode” actually means.
Strange New Worlds has not had any true “bottle episodes” to date, although they certainly have been able to work in a lot of high quality character moments.
If you look at the issue being actor fatigue instead of cash, the episode looks a lot more like a bottle episode.
The main character for the episode is someone who would be considered to be supporting cast. The only other characters from the show with significant screen time are also supporting cast.
It is an expensive bottle episode, but the scenes take place in a modern day city with a deep film industry. That is one step above TOS having an episode in a Western setting because the soundstage for it was already built.
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