My grandpa was a reactor monkey on the CVN Enterprise and the primary reason I’m such a huge sci-fi nerd, every time I see Big E in the intro it makes me think of him and hopeful we’ll see NCC-1701 someday.
Back when Enterprise was airing some fan took the opening video and put it to an instrumental instead of the song and it was awesome as hell. Really wish I'd saved a copy of that now.
It was more like this one where they use an instrumental version of the opening theme, but as I recall the music was more along the lines of Voyager's opening theme.
It’s likely the impact of the sudden and unexpected death of Melissa Navia’s husband led to a lightning of her role in the second season.
She’s written about how hard it was for her to go into production just a couple of months after that. She was a musical theatre performer as a child, so it’s likely that a larger singing role was planned for her in 2 x 09. We can be thankful that she has apparently decided to stick with her career after some profound doubts in 2022.
I hope Melissa continues to find the fandom to be a source of surrogate family. It was nice to see the fandom’s outpouring of empathy and support after her tragic loss. It’s not the same, but since it seems to have given her some comfort, I hope that dynamic can be something special for her for a long time.
I very much enjoyed enterprise at the time, despite the horrible theme song and the flaws in writing that spotted most episodes.
Now, part of that is being a huge Bakula fan. I love the way he throws himself into roles. I think though, had there been another age actor in the role I still would have enjoyed the show.
It wasn't great Trek. Probably the weakest of the older series, depending on tastes and criteria. Certainly wasn't up to TNG, TOS, or DS 9. I'd put it on par with Voyager, though it was both bad and good in different ways, with the lack of attention being paid to established Vulcan history in Enterprise tipping the scales to it being lesser than Voyager.
But I really liked that they tried to go back to the whole "wagon train in space" vibe. And the cast was great. Can't hold the iffy writing against the cast, and there were some great moments where the actors kept things from being worse just by virtue of how they carried their characters.
I don't rewatch any of the series as a binge though, so my opinion might change when the flaws are showing up in rapid succession compared to the original pace of watching week by week and over time. I know binge watching made me almost hate shows I used to like a good bit (like Bones as an example).
I can't compare anything to the newer shows since I've kinda stopped watching much in the way of "tv" the last few years, so I haven't caught any of the stuff that has been done in the last decade. Could be that one of the new shows would be worse, in comparison to the earlier shows, I dunno. Doesn't help that I despise the reboot movies, and the fact e that they happened kinda soured me on new Trek overall. The folks running things don't seem to be interested in the kind of shows that made me enjoy Trek in the first place, but that's second hand impression from seeing what people say online
All of them hold up pretty well when binging them, although I do fairly slow binges, maybe watching 3 - 4 episodes a day at most. There are episodes I dislike and I simply skip those when binging, which helps a lot. (For example DS9 is my favorite Trek but I really, really hate Vedik/Kai Wynn and skip the earlier episodes where she's being an annoying bitch. I do watch the later episodes where she's a lot more important, but I still hate her character so much. For TNG I skip all of season 1 and most of season 2.)
I agree. Discovery is the least progressive Star Trek series and is already aging poorly. The other series use the Star Trek universe to cleverly explore present day issues whereas Discovery lazily frames today's social issues as if they're universal truths. It was a real back step for the franchise.
It's not that Disco isn't progressive; it's just lazily progressive. Case in point: the scene that bothers me to this day is Adira coming out as non-binary, just beyond cringe-worthy and very 21st century. As a viewer, the scene read like Adira was waiting to be judged harshly for their identity, and it just totally took me out of the era. By the 32nd century, I'd expect that being judged harshly for one's gender identity would be at least a millennium behind us, and the conversation should either have not happened or been so matter-of-fact that it was treated as nothing. I get what the writers were trying to do, and it fell so flat and felt so bluntly obvious. I'm all for the message, but the delivery was not great.
The saddest thing about Disco to me is that there were great ideas and great intentions, but the execution of those ideas was so poor. Really, it just shows that you can have great actors, great directors, and great concepts, but if the writers can't make it work, it just all comes apart.
I see your point, but I still don't think the scene works, but thinking about it like that makes it much more watchable. My point is that the scene is simultaneously poignant and a throw-away. It's a "big deal" but also just one scene.
By the 32nd century, something like that should be such a non-issue for humans, that it would be like stating just another fact about yourself (amnesia and trust-issues aside), which lends itself to being a throw-away...but that defeats the purpose of the scene. Again, I am all about the message and Stamets' reaction, but it felt very 21st century and on-the-nose.
I'd have preferred if Adira were just non-binary from the beginning and maybe have a quick correction of someone when they were misgendered. Or, let that scene be the reveal of something else, like the symbiont. With that change (I'd have to rewatch the season to see where this scene was in relation to the symbiont reveal), I think the scene would still work while tightening up the writing. I also think it'd get the message across, too.
Now, if the writers really wanted that scene to stay as-is, there are options. Make them an alien from a culture not as enlightened (which would cause other issues) or have this scene play into a bigger theme of Earth backsliding post-Burn (like a Dark Ages) to have mores closer to the 21st century and show the 23rd century crew as horrified by it and work to bring Earth and humanity back toward enlightenment.
This kinda sums up my main problem with Disco. There were great options on the table to realize a concept, but they just wrote it in an awkward way that is unsatisfying (at least to me). Sometimes, that awkwardness reads as performative/lazily progressive.
The problem I had with that scene (and the whole series, really, especially season 3) was that it framed human culture of the future as being generally oppressive and backwards. Acceptance shouldn't be portrayed as radical or exceptional. It should be normal and taken for granted among humans in the future. Like in TOS, Uhura's role was a big deal for viewers specifically because it was not a big deal for the characters. They just showed us a better future, where a black woman in a respected professional position was normal.
Discovery didn't show us a better future. It showed us a shitty future with a handful of decent people in it. This is just one example, but it's one that stuck in my mind as well.
It was presented as exceptional in-universe, from Adira's perspective. The fact that Adira felt weird about it at all paints the culture they grew up in as backwards.
How so? Perhaps I'm misremembering, but they were born on Earth and raised among humans, right? Does that not say something about the human culture of their time?
I've only made it to season 2, so I'm holding out hope that it gets better, but lazily progressive seems to describe it pretty well.
The one that really rubs me rough it how Tilly is very clearly coded to be some type of neuro divergent, probably autistic, but also only when it is convenient and quirky and will not interfere with the plot too much.
Her suddenly being very socially adept when the plot needed her to pretend to be an evil commander or whatever, and she dropped all of her character flaws to make it happen just felt so out of character and lazy.
Also the scenes with Spock and "child abuse bad" at the start of the red angel arc was very ham fisted.
I much preferred how SNW handled the "our wonderful society is supported by horrible child labor and death" arc. Still about as subtle as a brick, but it at least felt like an attempt was made to encode a message, and not just saying it at the viewer like a pre-school cartoon recapping the message of the episode.
The scene you're describing is a good example. Though I would argue that given this story line is set a millennium in the future, it isn't just lazily progressive, it's an ultra-conservative view of the future. It perpetuates today's bigotries as universal truths instead of challenging the audience to perceive of a future without our current bigotries like the Kirk / Uhura kiss did 50 years ago.
Yeah someone being non-binary or whatever and no one caring or commenting on it at all is a lot more progressive and meaningful. TOS did that really well with Uhura on the bridge. She was a black woman and absolutely no one on the ship acted like that was remotely odd. It sent a very powerful message.
It also felt like it was shoehorning in all the progressiveness for the sake of being progressive which sends the exact opposite message than they hoped for. The crew was so amazingly diverse representing so many different things that any adult would look at it and go "the odds of all these different sexualities/etc. being on one ship at once are so improbable as to be impossible." That makes it feel like pandering, not being progressive. That could work for kids, just being able to see someone like them on screen helps a lot, but Discovery is very much not meant for kids to watch.
Basically they tried too hard and didn't understand what they were doing.
Can you give some examples of this? Admittedly I didn't much care for Discovery and didn't pay a lot of attention through it as a result, but I'm not picking up what you're laying down ;-)
The original series was based in a post-race society. When Kirk and Uhura kiss, it wasn't an interracial kiss in the show because the concept of race doesn't exist in the 24th century universe. It got backlash when it aired because some people couldn't contemplate a the future without their current bigotry existing. Star Trek explored current social issues by visiting some planet with a veiled version of that issue.
Contrast that to Discovery where Burnham is having a conversation with an Admiral and the Admiral brings up Burnham's family's history of slavery.
Ah yeah, I remember a moment like that in DS9, where Sisko is lamenting the crew's interest in a holosuite program set in the 50s because of how "our people" were treated back then. It always felt out of place for me, though DS9 is still my favourite Star Trek.
Or that Seasons 3 and 4 and 5 were a terrifyingly large Holodeck Program run by Tom Paris to see what would happen if the U.S.S. Discovery arrived in the 32nd century and that the U.S.S. Discovery was teleported back to the times of the Iconians?
Enterprise was great when it was allowed to be the prequel it was meant to be. The actors were great. Set and prop design was on point. There were interesting ideas to explore during that time like the Vulcan-Andorian Cold War and the increasing destabilization cause by Romulus.
Cut the Temporal Cold War and the Xindi and Enterprise could have gone on for seven seasons and we might have seen the Earth-Romulus War.
I actually liked the Temporal Cold War stuff and the Xindi arc, but that fourth season was so damn good. I wish we'd gotten at least a couple more seasons like that.
I barely even noticed they got replaced. They never got to have any story involvement or character development, just like most of the rest of the bridge crew in Discovery.
One gets the feeling that Paramount senior management have been paying more attention to review-bombed scores on Rotten Tomatoes, IMDb etc. and YouTubers than to actual viewing minutes and audience size.
While Nielsen stats are only for the United States, it’s clear that Paramount has been doing vastly better by Discovery than any of the naysayers have claimed.
Remember when every new episode came out the ragebait youtube channels would proclaim it has already been super secret tripled cancelled? And yet they kept producing more episodes post-cancellation for reasons I never quite could follow?
They're also paying attention to when they need to renegotiate contracts. After the strikes, studio leadership has really doubled down on not giving an inch on writers' and actors' salaries even if it means cancelling a successful show. It's more valuable to them to keep workers in a state of perpetual gig work than anything they'd make from the show.
Contract length is a fair point. But so is the over reliance on US SGA talent in a show that’s trying to reach a global audience and represent a future that’s diverse.
Discovery had only five seasons but in calendar years, in which contracts are written, it was seven years from production of the pilot. So, regardless of the impact of the strikes, further seasons would have required higher salaries for Martin-Green, Rapp, Cruz and Wiseman.
One has to wonder if that was a consideration in the decision on Lower Decks as well.
Also, while federal and provincial governments give significant tax credits for the ACTRA-contract labour costs of Canadian and Ontario resident actors (50%), up until Rennie joined this season the Discovery main cast were all full SGA scale, although the seasonal ‘big bass’ have all been Canadian or resident since season 2. That can make a huge difference to the overall cost.
All to say, if talent salaries were the key driver of decisions, CBS Studios should put more casting in the hands of their Canadian casting director.
One has to then of Canadian/resident main cast will also put a cap on the potential number of seasons for SNW.
It will be interesting to see whether CBS Studios will go for the tax credit when they cast the cadet roles for Starfleet Academy.
I see it as something exciting. There are countless incredible science fiction writers out there and a longer season could mean more opportunities for their stories to reach the screen.
Rewatching TNG recently, I’ve relished the longer seasons with loads of interesting stories. And with things being episodic, a weaker episode doesn’t ruin everything (unlike Discovery and Picard).
From what I understand in television writing it was a constant struggle of “should we write a cliffhanger hoping it gets us renewed” to “we should have some closure in case we get cancelled”, since many writers had no idea what would happen.
I don’t think we know of a case where it convinced a studio executive, but then again we know very little about the reasons why some shows get renewed and some don’t.
We do know cases where ending on a cliffhanger helped drumm up enough fan engagement to reverse a cancellation (timeless on nbc is a recent(ish) example for that)
ENT’s trip to 1944 between seasons 3 and 4. Or in other words what must be the writer’s “you made us make this temporal cold war cake and by koala we are gonna make you eat it” letter to the execs.
The reason SNW is better than DISCO and ENT is that the characters are real and complete. We know exactly what type of person Ortegas is, and seeing her do stuff is exciting because I’m invested in seeing her grow and change.
Compare that to Detmer from DISCO, I’m not sure what her job is, didn’t know her name for serval seasons and couldn’t tell you a thing about her personality. I don’t care if Detmer lives, dies or grows. She’s a person who exists in the background.
The hard work of establishing the characters is done. I will be happy to see them go stuff.
I’m not sold that any of the cast is super nuanced, but they have personalities that are distinct. You can see a situation and think “that’s how La’an would react.” I’m still unsure what Nahn does.
To be fair with Ortegas they lean heavily into the thrill seeking flyboy archetype.
They do, but man an Erica Ortegas centered episode would be awesome. I would love to have an episode where we aren't reminded that "Hi, my name is Erica Ortegas; I fly the ship." Because at this point it feels like it's trolling the audience.
And considering the way the season ended, there's no guarantee that Ortegas makes it through alive. She's one of the few characters that doesn't have plot armor if TOS canon is to stand relatively unaltered.
One of the reasons you don’t know Detmer was they made a conscious decision to make a “one main character” show instead of an ensemble show. They were consciously not trying to develop anyone but Burnham, and to a lesser extent Saru, then Stamets.
I mean, DS9 wasn’t as popular as TNG back then – both in terms of ratings and fan reception. Many considered it the black sheep of the Trek family. Berman focused on Voyager. So it was chrystal clear to every fan with even half a brain that DS9 would never get a movie. Perhaps Voyager had a tiny chance but by the time it concluded its run viewership had been in steady decline, and then Nemesis tanked.
Voyager had consistently mediocre writing. I, somewhat cynically, always thought the reason moore did Battlestar was to show everyone what Voyager could have been.
Wow I have to agree with this. Voyager episodes often start out with an interesting premise, the show progresses too slowly then in the last 2 minutes: “I have to go now my planet needs me.” and the episode is over instantly.
Ohh man, the “demon planet” melting voyager clone episode really set my teeth on edge with this.
Super interesting premise, the metal clones fly out on their own ship, invent/discover new warp tech that is super useful, almost get to earth, but then begin to melt. People die, Tom gets dark and broody in a realistic way, but then as its getting good they all start to die to wrap it up in one episode. So they super warp home to the devil planet, but they realize they arent going to make it, so they fire off a “stable bouy” about who they are/what they learned. By pure, totally realistic happenstance, this buoy both doesn’t survive and the actual voyager is passing nearby at the time, just close enough to see their destroyed remains.
In the insane vastness of space, the chances of these two ships with vastly different propulsion capabilities passing by each other in the very minutes one of them disintegrates is so unlikely as to be nearly impossible, and of course it failed in a way that fully resets any boons actual voyager might have gained from it.
It would have been way more poignant to have the bouy survive, but to have voyager well past it, not able to learn from it because they had gone beyond. To never have them even see or interact with their copies, just to have those copies set out on their same journey but fail, with only a lone bouy to remember them by. A true reminder, a real boon, but one outside of voyagers reach by random chance. Actual life.
But nah, just reset the whole promise of the episode in the last 2 minutes instead.
The worst for me was the episode where Tom Paris breaks the trans warp threshold and becomes an omnipresent god and starts evolving 1000 years a minute.
Janeway realizes it and says- this will change our very existence. Wow! but instead of exploring this they turn him and Janeway into giant lizards then in the last few minutes the doctor just magically changes then back- The end.
WTF, such a waste. There must have been a writers strike that year.
However what I don’t think is justified is the label as one of the worst Star Trek episodes. Is it nuts? Yes. Is it annoying that they have the technology to bring everyone back to Earth and simply de-lizard them after the trip, and then it’s never brought up again? Also yes.
But it’s nowhere near the worst episodes because it’s neither offending and un-Star Trek (like TNG’s Code of Honor) nor is it boring. It’s actually pretty entertaining for the first 35 or so minutes. It just goes off the rails at the end.
Paris is genuinely entertaining in it. The look of perverse amusement as he pops his own tongue off, total brilliance. It’s the exact amount of goofy that the premise demands.
If it weren’t for tuvok and the doctor I don’t think I could have finished that series. It’s the only trek I’ve never really rewatched too. Not counting the modern shows.
Here is an excerpt from The Fifty Year Mission (book 2) by Mark A. Altman and Edward Gross. I highly recommend those books. They are super insightful about the behind-the-scenes stuff from the first 50 years of Star Trek.
God damn. I’m almost done watching DS9 for the first time right now and was planning on diving into Voyager right after. But this makes me not want to.
Voyager is alright. It’s just very uneven. What drags it down is that the producers only very rarely took big swings that had a lasting impact on the characters or the show. Voyager excels at being episodic television. There are a bunch of stinkers (as there are on any TV show) but when it’s good, it’s really good. It has some of the best Trek episodes.
Maybe use an episode guide with ratings (for example Jammer’s Reviews, Ex Astris Scientia or IMDb) and skip the episodes with low ratings.
Its odd that Voyager had a better chance at a film. DS9 had better ratings when they were both on and received more critical acclaim. Yet somehow Voyager has remained more in the popular consciousness and had more enduring popularity. I think a lot of it had to do with Berman favoring Voyager. Its reruns also saw a lot more syndication. I was a teenager in the 2000’s so I only ever saw reruns of 90’s trek growing up and it was usually Voyager and rarely TNG. I never saw any DS9 until it became available on streaming.
I truly hope there is some success to this. If they want to cancel the show then fine. I’m not going to be happy with it but I’d get it. But removing it as well? Y’all have Code of Honor still up on Paramount Plus but will remove a show for kids? Fuck right off.
For the record I’m not saying they should remove anything. Just that they’ve got weird priorities around removals.
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