Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x04 "Among the Lotus Eaters"

Written by Kirsten Beyer & Davy Perez

Directed by Eduardo Sanchez

LoglineReturning to a planet that dredges up tragic memories, Captain Pike and his landing party find themselves forgetting everything, including their own identities as he confronts a ghost from his past.

ComptitiveSubset ,

This episode belongs together with the better episodes of TNG. I liked it a lot.

1Fuji2Taka3Nasubi ,
  • Still somewhat annoyed that there is no seat belt on the shuttle, even if it is to maintain continuity with TOS. M'Benga looked like he was going to bang his head and get a concussion when they were landing.
  • La'an: They won't see us coming.
    Zac: We totally saw you from the other side of the planet a hemisphere away.
  • What was Zac trying to accomplish? He lured them there with the Starfleet Delta, but he was not going to hitch a ride home. He expected whatever ship that comes to inspect to... forget and go away, or suffer some disastrous result when the crew become unable to function? Why not just stay low and be king if he wasn't planning to leave?
Basilisk ,

It wasn’t intentional. The Starfleet Delta was something Zac’s followers had done to honour him, it wasn’t intended as a lure.

khaosworks , (edited )
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

Zac didn’t intend for Starfleet to notice the delta. He was content to just stay on Rigel VII as High Lord Zacarias, thinking that Starfleet would never return to the planet because of the debris field and the radiation. But then the Kalar used the delta as a symbol and it got spotted.

PIKE: Zac. We saw your message, the, um… the Delta in the garden. It’s why we came. Isn’t that why you did it?

ZAC: The people here adopted it as my symbol. I should have known better. It’s all getting torn out tomorrow.

1Fuji2Taka3Nasubi ,

Thanks. I tried to watch with subtitles off and predictably missed some of the conversation.

AuroraBorealis , (edited )
@AuroraBorealis@pawb.social avatar

It’s a common trope that the away teams really shouldn’t be landing in these planets without any idea what’s down there without an alien style hazmat suit and here we go, another example :) I GUESS they get a pass because they were here before and the effects didn’t happen because they were not here long enough

also really strange they don’t confirm that people were dead? Or try and go back and get their bodies which might have equipment/ com badges /might even be alien (Spock was there and he bleeds green), maybe starfleet shouldn’t be so careless about what they leave behind…

ValueSubtracted OP Mod ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

No EV suit would have protected them, either - the Enterprise was affected as well.

khaosworks ,
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

They handled that subtly - I was wondering why they didn't raise shields against the radiation, but the shimmering impact of the debris field seen when Ortegas was in her quarters showed that shields were indeed up, so that mean the radiation could get through shields. Then it was mentioned that Spock tweaked the shield harmonics at the end - I guess he didn't earlier because he was already affected.

ValueSubtracted OP Mod ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

I think at the time they lacked sufficient information to modulate the shields, which is why moving the ship into the astroids seemed logical.

astroturds ,

A very TOS episode that I thoroughly enjoyed!

Can we let La’an have a few happy moments in this season? That woman must be riddled with PTSD by now.

It was great to finally get Pike back! Has he ever told his girlfriend that he’s almost certainly going to be disabled? What a pickle he’s in. I think if I were in his shoes I would have let the relationship end. The guilt must be driving him insane.

I feel like they might be messing around with the timelines so that they can save Pike from his horrendous fate and just say it’s an alternate timeline compared to TOS. Normally I’d be against that, but it’s Pike and I love him so much that I almost want them to do it.

StillPaisleyCat ,
@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website avatar

The nature of a time crystal is that it’s a fixed event in every timeline forward.

Once Pike drew the crystal on Borath, it was locked in.

astroturds ,

Thanks, I should know that, I’ve seen every episode!

In a kind of sad way he does have a happy ending. I just don’t want it to happen to him. Poor old Pike!

Jon-H558 ,

I mean its a little far fetched a simple helmet protects the kmal yet the enterprise hull let it through no problems (until pack modulates the shield), but wont let that get in the way of a good story.

echo ,

their helmets are made of a special ore that blocks the radiation. it’s a goofy explanation, but there is a reason why they act differently than the enterprise hull

UhBell ,
@UhBell@lemmy.world avatar

Damn I love this show. I can’t help but wonder if Hemmer would have been affected differently by the radiation if he wasn’t a gorn egg popsicle.

UESPA_Sputnik ,
@UESPA_Sputnik@lemmy.world avatar

Isn’t Spock usually the one to be immune? But he was affected to, so was Una. It’s likely that Hemmer would have been affected as well (for plot reasons anyway).

G59 ,

I almost thought Una’s super healing ability would make her immune/resistant to the radiation damage.

rother_stuebs ,
@rother_stuebs@mastodon.online avatar

@UESPA_Sputnik
Sounds like Troi's telepathic abilities always being mysteriously blocked when the story demands it.

@UhBell

Mezentine ,

That’s probably one of my favorite episodes of the series as a viewing experience, it was pretty entertaining. I don’t think I quite track…the message, though? In the span of about three minutes we get explicitly told that for Pike and Ortegas the memory loss could be revealing experience that identified the core of the self, while for their friend on the planet it was an obscuring experience that robbed him of things he didn’t know were important. You can explain away the difference with plot logic pretty easily, but thematically it’s a bit weird to juxtapose them right next to each other

psychothumbs ,

I think it makes sense that a brief bout of amnesia like that could be revealing of your underlying traits and feelings, but that in the normal course of things it’s very important to have your memories.

cyberic ,
@cyberic@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I wrote this as I was watching:

  • Since when have Batel and Pike have a history? Was she in season 1?
  • I wish they had a tone warning at the beginning of the episode, also I thought the tones went for a little too long each time.
  • Lol this is the anti-Spock world. “Your emotions are your truth.” Maybe Spock should have been on the planet surface as well.
  • Did Spock forget how to read?
  • Did the Enterprise not feel the effects in the previous mission? Did they forget to record it or make personal logs?
cyberic ,
@cyberic@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I rewatched the beginning and around 10:17 Spock mentioned that the collision was hundreds of years ago, so they should have felt the effects on the previous mission. Then in the shuttle they mention that the meteor was already there for thousands of years… So I’m just more confused why the memory effects weren’t there before.

ValueSubtracted OP Mod ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

They said in the episode that the original mission had been so short (4 hours if I recall correctly), Pike’s crew had not felt the effects.

CeruleanRuin ,
@CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one avatar

Yup, they basically touched down, immediately encountered some nasty violent opposition, and cut their losses and left bleeding. It was bad enough to make Pike question his fitness as a leader.

Jon-H558 , (edited )

They were in and out in four hours was mentioned deliberately I feel , and then the trekking for 6hours before laan started it all

18+ sammydee ,
@sammydee@universeodon.com avatar

@cyberic @ValueSubtracted She was in S1E1, scene 1. She was trying to get him to leave his cabin and get back to work.

ValueSubtracted OP Mod ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

She was in “A Quality of Mercy” as well.

FormerGameDev ,

If I remember correctly, the very first scene of S1E1 was Batel waking up in Pike’s bed, so… yeah :D

Randy_Bobandy ,
@Randy_Bobandy@lemmy.ml avatar

For the last one: Spock stated that the previous mission they hadn’t stayed as long as they were when the effects started happening.

GordonShumway ,

Your 2nd point is valid for Tinnitus sufferers like myself I think. I found the early moments of the episode quite uncomfortable as a result of hearing that tone amongst the already present tones in my real world!

regeya ,

Good Lord they established that Pike and Batel have a relationship in the first episode.

williams_482 ,
@williams_482@startrek.website avatar

The first scene of the first episode, even.

khan_shot_1st ,

I think he forgot how to read English. I suspect had he remembered how to switch his padd to a Vulcan script, he would have been able to read that. Maybe.

deepthaw ,

Did Spock forget how to read?

Maybe it’s a nod to Discovery establishing he had a learning disability similar to dyslexia.

autojourno ,

If I remember right, she’s in the very first scene of SNW. A bearded Pike in Alaska riding a horse to a cabin where they’re staying together. She’s gently needling him about whether he should go back to a command. I think she’s about to leave to go back to her ship after a vacation together. Something like that.

Tired8281 ,

I don’t understand that dude, needling the dude with no memory who was beating on him, then acting all surprised when that same dude puts a gun on him. Like, what was he trying to do? It seemed like he was trying to get Pike to kill him, but then he wasn’t. Wtf?

FelipeFelop ,
@FelipeFelop@feddit.uk avatar

It was implied that the trauma of being left behind, the things that happened to him when he lost his memory, the memory of those things when he entered the castle and the things he did to become ruler caused to him to become insane.

crazycanadianloon ,

The way I read the scene was that he was so high off his power that he thought with the tables turned and Pike having no power that he would have the upper hand. But Pike managed to subdue him and High Lord Zacarias was all of a sudden staring down the barrel of a phaser rifle and all of a sudden wasn’t so confident that the Pike he knew, who would lower the weapon once the combatant was subdued, was still there. I think the sudden switch was just an “OH shit, what have I done?” moment.

tdriley ,
@tdriley@mas.to avatar

@Tired8281 @crazycanadianloon yeh that’s my interpretation. For a moment it looks like Pike has not recovered enough to remember he shouldn’t kill someone when he has the upper hand. Zac suddenly changes demeanor when he realises Pike might not show any mercy.

FormerGameDev ,

Outside of Pike and Batel’s relationship, are there any points in this episode that look to connect to anything else in the currently ongoing plotline in SNW? I didn’t really notice anything, it seems like this might be the most standalone episode.

khaosworks ,
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

Batel’s promotion was nixed by Judge Advocate Pasalk because of her conduct during Una’s trial in “Ad Astra Per Aspera”.

M’Benga mentions that the reason he and La’An were along was because Pike needed people who could fight without phasers (as per “The Broken Circle” and “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow”).

That’s basically it, I think.

deepthaw ,

M’Benga

You mean “Dr. Seen-Some-Shit.”

Disgustoid ,

I don’t know if we’ll ever see a full episode with flashbacks to everything he’s been through, but oddly enough I don’t mind the intentionally vague references to it so far–leaves it open for our imaginations (and fan fiction) to fill in the gaps.

flamingmongoose ,

Enjoyed this very much, the tone was very creepy. Reminded me of the psychological horror episodes only TNG really did.

StillPaisleyCat ,
@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website avatar

I would link it back to psychological mystery of The Cage and further to its touchstone, the MGM 50s classic Forbidden Planet.

regeya ,

Rigel 7 is literally a callback to The Cage

StillPaisleyCat ,
@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website avatar

Yes, it’s a direct plot reference to the backstory for The Cage.

I was responding to the comment that it’s like TNG psychological episodes, when I see it as in the tradition of Forbidden Planet where an unknown technology or phenomenon is changing brain function so that subconscious or deep behaviours are revealed.

timeisart ,

oh wow tf was that lol… didn’t know I was signing up for Strange New Worlds: Dementia Simulator…! , great episode!

Azfaa ,

I have loved SNW from the get go but I think its great that to me at least every episode has been great. I don’t think I have felt meh or bummed out by any singular one so far. Comparing to TNG and DS9 who had quite a few meh episodes. That is great imo

thomasb2k ,

I agree, this show has knocked it out the park. It’s in the top 3 for me; TNG, DS9, and SNW. The order changes regularly ;)

polymorphist_neuroid ,

OK, can someone help me out? I had major deja-vu with the scene where Spock tells Ortegas she can’t go on the field trip away mission. Wasn’t there another episode where Ortegas was about to get to go on an away mission and got told she couldn’t at the last minute? Or did I maybe see that scene in a preview or something?

ValueSubtracted OP Mod ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

That scene was shown at one of the major conventions last year, so you may have seen it then.

r2vq ,
@r2vq@lemmy.ca avatar

It was shared late last year as a preview. YouTube

sabremows ,
@sabremows@meow.social avatar

I'm primarily curious about Batel's job responsibilities. Her main job seems to be as a JAG officer but she also has a field command on the Cayuga?

ValueSubtracted OP Mod ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

She was in command of the Cayuga in “A Quality of Mercy” as well - it seems that’s her regular gig, and she was assigned Una’s prosecution because…well, that’s how Starfleet rolls, I guess.

InverseParallax ,

I think she was asked by starfleet since she was close, then asked to do jag duty (?!) As a test of her fitness for higher command, which she should have passed.

TheGayTramp ,
@TheGayTramp@lemmy.ca avatar

Everyone knows that ship captains are the best lawyers. That’s why starfleet keeps using them as attorneys in all their trials

milkisklim ,

Maybe the Cayuga performs a support mission? It can do standard starship stuff but also specializes in social work, like diplomacy, legal services, law enforcement, politics, etc

TheGayTramp ,
@TheGayTramp@lemmy.ca avatar

Even if that were the case and the Cayuga is a flying legal-aid clinic it doesn’t make much sense to put the lawyer in charge. You’d have a regular command officer trained to fly spaceships running the ship, and Batel would be like the chief counsel or whatever aboard. But they also did it weird with Crusher too when they made her the captain of a hospital ship. Again, you’d have a ship-captain-type-person flying the thing, and a doctor in charge of the doctoring

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