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queermunist , to Politics in Newest "anti-woke" tantrum: Right-wingers don't think kids of different races can be friends
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Just call them racist. It’s a racist tantrum. That’s it.

Stop talking about them in their terms.

FunderPants ,

Yup this is a racist tantrum, “anti woke” is just the new coat of paint. It isn’t “anti woke” that’s getting more common, it’s racism, xenophobia, and hate in general.

JoBo ,

If you’d read the article, you’d know that it is not all it is.

If you have, in fact, read the article, read it again. To the end. Maybe take in some of its links too.

This is not ‘just’ a racist tantrum. It is a billionaire-funded fascist takeover. Lazily dismissing them won’t work. People need to start turning up to school board meetings to outnumber these fucking psychopaths. Even if no one is paying them to do it.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I didn’t mean “that’s it” as if it’s merely a racist tantrum. In fact, calling it a tantrum like the article does infantilizes the problem - as if they’re harmless babies and we can ignore their crying. I didn’t mean to imply it’s “just” a racist tantrum. Rather, what I meant is that we need to call racism racism and be precise with language, not lazily dismiss them as “anti-woke” as if that means anything.

JoBo , (edited )

I take your point about language. It is important to say “racist” when you mean “racist”.

But they’re also targeting LGBTQ+ people and women, and any other group they can use to distract attention from the fact that billionaires are robbing us blind lest they lose one tiny drop of power.

So, in this case, “anti-woke” is a perfectly reasonable term to use. Not least because if we want to destroy these fuckers, it will take every single one of us making common cause, not fighting about who gets top billing.

This is about racism but it is about racism because it is about power. Power protecting itself by throwing everyone else under the bus. “Look! Over there! The poor people have all your money!”

We cannot defeat them by retreating into identity siloes. Obviously, we all have different specific battles to fight but they’re all the same war. Against fascism. We do need a language that acknowledges that.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Fair. Connecting this specific spate of racism to the broader fascist trend of smearing everyone who isn’t an affluent straight white male christian (i.e. part of the in-group) is good politics, but there’s already a word for that: reactionary

I refuse to let them define themselves.

JoBo ,

Yes, that is a fair point and one I’d missed a bit from your original post. I appreciated the scare quotes in the article but you’re not wrong.

That said, I don’t know if you’re exactly right either. “Woke” was co-opted by the fash. I don’t think we should just let them have it. A good starting point is for every interlocutor to stop them and ask them to define the word every time they use it. The word is not the problem.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

They call themselves anti-woke; by calling them anti-woke you are letting them have it. Practically giving it to them, in fact.

JoBo ,

You’re only letting them have it if you also let them define it. They are anti-woke. Woke (aware of structural injustice) is not a bad thing to be. 90% of the population has every reason to be woke because 90% of the population is subject to structural injustice. But far too many have been distracted by the idea that some other fucked-over group has it better than them, or gains consolation from not being quite at the bottom of the pile.

It’s a neat trick but so easy to expose. And one of the simplest ways to expose it is to make them spell out what they think it means.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

You pulled that percentage out of your ass. 😏

White-passing Americans (white or white-mixed) make up 71% of the country. 35% are white men. Based on the most common numbers I’m seeing, 30% are straight and cis. 80% of America is Christian (fug it’s that high???), so that gives us roughly 22% straight white cis christian males.

That huge mass of people is predisposed to being anti-woke because they stand to lose the most from anti-racism and anti-sexism and queer acceptance and religious tolerance etc. Structural injustice isn’t just a historical accident, it was a deliberate creation by the ruling class through the usage of genocide and slavery and apartheid to ensure that a huge minority of the population would be too comfortable and to loyal to their rulers to ever revolt and would stand up for their privileges against the mobs of the havenots.

Call them anti-woke if you want. They’re also settlers, reactionaries, and Amerikkkan Nazis

JoBo , (edited )

90% of the population are either too poor not to be suffering structural injustice, or are relatively well off but still too Black, too queer, too female,. Class and race cannot be separated. If we ignore the people who are struggling just because they’re blaming the wrong people for their struggles, fascism will win.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Do you think a working class Israeli faces the same injustices as a working class Palestinian? A working class Jew in 1935 Germany the same as a working class Christian?

You’re the one trying to separate class and race. Don’t think of America like a country, think of it like an occupation or a regime.

We gotta destroy whiteness. You can’t win by just making whitey woke.

JoBo ,

Do you think a working class Israeli faces the same injustices as a working class Palestinian? A working class Jew in 1935 Germany the same as a working class Christian?

No, of course I don’t. But a working class Israeli has a hell of a lot more in common with a working class Palestinian than they do with the Israeli ruling class. And they may not get much publicity (and a lot of jail time) but quite a lot of Israelis recognise that; I know because I have worked with some of them.

Oppression Olympics is a dismal fucking sport. Divide and fucking rule from the bottom up. Completely self-defeating. It is structural and if you refuse to expose the structures, you’ll never change a thing.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

This isn’t oppression olympics, it’s anti-imperialist struggle! Divide and conquer already happened when the ruling class elevated a portion of the working class to use as a bludgeon to oppress the rest of the working class. It’s too late to coddle the white mob and beg them to join us in the struggle for liberation - we have to take away their whiteness, render them as workers just like the rest of us.

The woke philosophers have only interpreted structural oppression in various ways. The point, however, is to change it.

JoBo ,

The concept of whiteness needs to go. But white people are no more a homogeneous blob of identity than Black people, or LGBT people, or Jewish people (some of whom are white). I’ll oppose those who turn to racism and bigotry as a solution to their problems. As I do Louis Farrakhan for his anti-semitism, homophobia, misogyny and general cunty conservatism. Being oppressed is not an excuse to do some oppressing of your own. But it’s really fucking easy to see how people fall into that trap. And really fucking racist to believe that Black people can’t be authoritarian fuckwits, or that Jewish people can’t oppose Israel, or that white people can’t be oppressed by poverty.

Steven Avery and Brendan Darcy were fucked over because they are poor, not protected because they are white. Black people are fucked over with impunity because the colour of their skin is a marker of powerlessness. Women and LGBT people are fucked over because that which is feminine is despised.

This is a really useful example of what I am talking about. The woman was mistreated because she was Black. She got (a form of) justice because her family is rich.

She later woke in a hospital bed with no memory of what had happened and minus her clothes. Now 26, the woman said she believed the officers had treated her in the way they did because she was black. According to the woman, when she came round in hospital she spoke to the police officer at her bedside, who said she was very well spoken and asked where she was born. When the woman replied: “Hampstead”, the officer radioed a colleague and was overheard saying: “I think we made a mistake…”

As soon as she opened her mouth … “I think we made a mistake.”

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

The concept of whiteness needs to go. But white people are no more a homogeneous blob of identity than Black people, or LGBT people, or Jewish people (some of whom are white).

I completely agree, and in fact, abhor whiteness because it seeks to turn all so-called “white” people who accept it into such a homogeneous blob of identity. That’s why it was invented!

What I’m trying to say is that the white identity, itself, has to be abolished. As long as whiteness exists it will be used by the US/NATO empire to enforce its own hegemonic rule over its imperial subjects in the Global South and on subjects in its internal colonies.

It’s important to note that whiteness is a lot more complicated than just skin color. Did you know white women that married Japanese men were sent to internment camps? Their fair skin did not protect them, because by race mixing they lost the privilege of being “white”.

… I have no idea where I’m going with this. I just think white people being woke isn’t enough. White people need reject whiteness, not just be made aware of it.

JoBo ,

We don’t disagree. This has been a great discussion, thank you.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Likewise!

silent_water , to Politics in Newest "anti-woke" tantrum: Right-wingers don't think kids of different races can be friends
@silent_water@hexbear.net avatar

“Dungan referred to a first grade student whose parent claimed they were so upset by a poster showing hands of people of different races, that they transferred classrooms.”

can’t wait until the Supreme Court reverses Brown

zauri27 ,
@zauri27@kbin.social avatar

the way this country has been working... I don't even doubt it... fuck...

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

You mean it hasn’t already happened? God maybe there is some hope still

silent_water ,
@silent_water@hexbear.net avatar

not unless the Ds suddenly decide they want to fight back and pack the court or something. barring that, the right has a majority on the court for the next generation.

ElHexo ,

In practice there’s still extreme racial segregation across a lot of US schools. I recall a good article on the NY school system but can’t find it.

silent_water ,
@silent_water@hexbear.net avatar

oh I know. but they’ll dial that ratchet straight to 11 once Brown is gone.

Fiivemacs , to Politics in Trump's "defense" strategy: Flooding the zone with sh*t

Easy…ignore anything he says and work based on the facts. He has already been proven a master liar so why listen to him unless he’s on the stand.

ubermeisters ,
@ubermeisters@lemmy.world avatar

He is NOT a master liar. He’s not even good at it in the slightest. The differenc eis that his base doesn’t care. They knows a lie and what isn’t. It’s a big game of “what can we get away with” becuase they need validation so fucking bad at this point.

MiddleWeigh ,
@MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

He doesn’t even lie as far as I’m concerned.

“Were gon be shitty and tribal cuz muh nature”

msprout , to Politics in Why the new Trump indictment feels so different: This time, there are victims

Ukrainians don’t count as victims? I’m confused.

Anticorp , to Politics in Why the new Trump indictment feels so different: This time, there are victims

WTF? There has been an endless trail of victims from Trump’s actions his entire life. This is a weird title that completely ignores the millions of people who have been injured by trump throughout his life, and yes, it is millions. Just a few of the crimes he has committed that leave victims are stealing tax payer money, refusing to pay contractors and employees, sexually assaulting or raping women, scamming everyone from students to cancer patients, and discouraging people from preventing the spread of a deadly virus during a pandemic. Hundreds of thousands of people are dead because of his actions or lack of action during the pandemic. That’s millions of people hurt by him. “This time there are victims” psshaw! There have always been victims!

Pratai , to Politics in Why the new Trump indictment feels so different: This time, there are victims

Wtf is different? The entirety of America are and have been victims of that clown since 2016.

He needs to be fired into the sun.

azimir , to Politics in Team Trump has fully wired the GOP primary to Trump's advantage

Of course they have. During the '08 election the GOP state rules committee in my state went so far as to make a rule that only a single delegate could be on the ballot for each county and that the central state party leadership would pick those candidates. The elected representatives at the state convention were literally given a ballot with a single name on it and told that write ins were not allowed. Any ballot altered beyond voting for the single candidate provided would be discarded.

The GOP doesn’t actually value democratic principles. It’s authoritarianism all the way down.

e_t_ Admin , to Politics in Team Trump has fully wired the GOP primary to Trump's advantage

Even when victory is likely while playing within the rules, Trump still tries to cheat as a matter of course.

sin_free_for_00_days , to Politics in Donald Trump unleashed a war against the U.S. government — and now he can't control it

Then came Ronald Reagan and the dark times.

That about sums up the situation.

tegs_terry , to Politics in Expert: Jack Smith can use "surprise" statute cited in Trump target letter for "enhanced penalties"

Sure chuck it on the pile. What else is there?

style99 , to Politics in Trump aims to expand presidential power over "every part of the federal government" with any independence
@style99@kbin.social avatar

I don't normally find myself agreeing with Hasan, but I feel like this bears repeating:

"Be afraid. This is on the verge of happening 18 months from now," tweeted MSNBC host Mehdi Hasan. "Now ask yourself this question: are cautious, in-denial, business-as-usual establishment Dems equipped, or even willing, to address this anti-democratic, autocratic threat?"

takeda , to Politics in "Sounds like Rudy flipped": Giuliani evades Jan. 6 target letter after meeting with prosecutors

Well, to be frank, he was responsible for many things, but I don't think there was anything (at least currently publicly available) that he had part in planning January 6th.

DarkGamer ,
@DarkGamer@kbin.social avatar

[Guliani] was responsible for many things, but I don't think there was anything (at least currently publicly available) that he had part in planning January 6th.

@takeda He did, and there is:

“[Guliani] was definitely intoxicated,” Jason Miller, a senior Trump campaign advisor, said in a recorded deposition that was shown publicly for the first time on Monday during the Jan. 6 committee’s second public hearing. Giuliani wanted Trump to ignore the math and declare victory, immediately. “‘We need to go and say that we won,’” Miller recalled Giuliani saying, and that anyone who disagreed “was being weak.”

That same night, Trump’s campaign manager, Bill Stepien, had a tense meeting with the president in which he counseled him that “the votes were still being counted” and “it was too early to call the race.” Stepien had warned the president that key mail-in voting tallies coming in later on election night would likely weigh toward Joe Biden, as Trump had told his supporters not to trust mail-in ballots. Trump “thought I was wrong, and he told me so,” Stepien said.

The two scenes demonstrated a central thesis that the Jan. 6 Committee worked to convey to the American public on Monday: that Trump had plenty of advisers trying to convince him of the truth, but that he willfully chose to listen to those telling him what he wanted to hear.

Trump ultimately followed Giuliani’s plan and declared victory early in the morning on November 4, 2020, when the outcome of the election was still unclear. Trump delivered the speech from the East Room of the White House, calling the election “a fraud” and saying, “we were getting ready to win this election—frankly, we did win this election.” source

HWK_290 ,

calling the election “a fraud” and saying, “we were getting ready to win this election—frankly, we did win this election.”

It’s a fraud… We won… Ergo, we won fraudulently?

HarkMahlberg , to Politics in "Sounds like Rudy flipped": Giuliani evades Jan. 6 target letter after meeting with prosecutors
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.social avatar
DougHolland , to Politics in Republicans beware, Donald Trump will turn his Big Lie against the GOP
@DougHolland@lemmy.ml avatar

Of course he will.

He’s never made a mistake in his life, never broken a law, never lost money unless someone else was a crook, never been outsmarted because he’s the smartest human ever, never touched a woman who didn’t want his touch because he’s the sexiest man alive, and never lost an election unless it was stolen from him.

How could he lose an election, when no-one anywhere would vote against him, because he’s Donald Trump.

gentleman , to Politics in Rumor: Steve Bannon spent months recruiting anti-vaxxer RFK Jr. to run against Biden as chaos agent.

@Arotrios it’s not a rumor. There is a picture of RFK jr with Brannon, Stone and Flynn which proves the point

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