RestrictedAccount ,

You mean they saw what happened to their parents.

CptOblivius ,

I just saw Docs, nurses and staff who had pensions for 30+ years just get butchered as the new Hospital system took over. Routed it all to standard 401ks. Why put your soul into a company. They will never come through. That ship has sailed.

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

My only hope is people look around at the fact that one of the few ways to still get a pension is through union work, and the current unionization wave continues into something bigger, better, and greater than we've had in the past.

raynethackery , (edited )

That’s what this new wave of layoffs and threats of layoffs is to help curtail.

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

That’s one of the risks of not being unionized. My employer can’t touch my pension (not that they would want to since they all came up from the union rank and file too) because it’s all managed through our union contract and there’s no chance in hell that we ever approve a contract that gives them that kind of control.

Kyrgizion ,

Even that isn’t complete protection. The government can always change the rules as they go. Not to mention a complete breakdown of society wouldn’t exactly do wonders for pensions and 401k’s either.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

I’m curious about how different Gen Z is from Millennials here, because everyone in my age range that I know seems to share this sentiment with them?

Ottomateeverything ,

I’m a millennial too, and I see some of this but it only seems to be some industries. I’m a programmer and my coworkers are like 90% about “the grindset”, but people I meet who are in health and wellness are 90% the other way. I also feel like cities and large metros tend to be more focused on work, and less urban areas are more focused on living.

I would say a lot of millenials are this way too, and it’s not fair to say it’s just a gem z thing, but it’s far from the majority… At least around me. There seem to at least be pockets of it, but overall I feel like it’s closer to 20%.

With gen z, I feel like the people are way more heavily skewed the other way. I’ve had gen z general contractors and such just cut the bullshit, tell it like it is, and show that they value ME more than THEIR BOSS. It seems much more universal in their generation.

But that’s just my experience. I dunno which is more universal.

ThePyroPython ,

So you’re saying that Gen Z just lay the truth out and finish their statement with “no cap”?

DaCookeyMonsta ,

I feel like millennials have a “It is what it is, guess ill work til I die” attitude whereas Gen Z have more of a Bartleby the Scrivener “I’d rather not” energy.

UsefulInfoPlz ,

Gen x here and we seen it coming as well but no options for us at the time. I don’t blame any of you. Corporate greed and the great 401k lie is bullshit. They want us to work till we’re dead. Screw them.

7u5k3n ,

The great 401k lie?

HarkMahlberg ,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.social avatar

Can't speak for OP, but I don't look at the 401k as a stable retirement vehicle. It's a vehicle to pump "dumb money" (read: casino chips) into the stock market. If the stock market downturns just before you retire, if the firm managing your 401k makes bad investments, if another 2008-style real estate collapse happens, your retirement fund suddenly has less money in it than you hoped, so you're gonna have to work longer.

pdxfed ,

if the firm managing your 401k makes a bad investment

The administrator of your accounts has zero control over most of the funds available in them, their rise or fall, and your funds are separate from any investments that financial institution may or may not have made.

If you have a 401k with fidelity, or ADP or Schwab or Trowe Price or whoever, some of those are banks, soke finance companies, some payroll, anyway, the point is for each, the money in your account is yours to allot and invest as you wish based on yhe invesrment options your company chose or negotiating with them to administer your company’s plan. The admin makes money by admin fees, not by taking your money and reinvesting it in something you don’t know about. Granted, yes if there is a stock market crash, most financial companies will similarly overall struggle, but they have lots of arms and operations (mortgage loans, commercial, consumer banking, investment banking, etc.) and they are 100% all disconnected from the money in your 401k.

That said, 401ks are awful and a sham that were pushed on an uninformed public and we’ve only just begun to see the effects as the first generation reaches end of work age…and can’t stop working. It’ll continue. Props to anyone fighting and organizing against it or trying to avoid as much as possible. System fully bought and broken by greed.

Psychodelic ,

What’s the point of your first two paragraphs? The person you responded to is 100% right. The point is to pump money in to the fuckin stock market so the wealthiest people can profit off that “investment”

pdxfed ,

The point was is the plan administrator has no control over whether the value of his account goes up and down, which Op said they did. I agree with everything else Op said but think it’s important since most people don’t understand the mechanics to learn about them so added the correct info.

AtariDump ,

When the plan administrator is picking the stocks in their “Target Retirement 2055” account, I’d say they have a large amount of control.

Now the S&P 500? Probably no control. But is it truly the S&P 500 or some bull shirt index fund from the 401k provider that’s not 100% following the S&P 500?

pdxfed ,

The portion of the comment I replied to, which I highlighted at the top of my response was that Op had said that “if the company managing your 4401k makes a bad investment”, concerned that (among Ops other accurate concerns) your 401k funds could be used elsewhere without your knowledge or permission by the plan administrator, which they can’t. So I corrected it.

Lazy people immediately REEE when someone doesn’t immediately jump on the tribal circle jerk and agree even when parts of a statement are incorrect. Ops point was overall correct and a good one and correcting something that was wrong doesn’t mean I disagree with the rest of it. Lookup false dichotomy.

AtariDump ,

If you’re investment is in the hands of a company that’s manually picking and choosing you’re in bad hands.

Better?

HarkMahlberg ,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.social avatar

Thanks for the informed take.

the money in your account is yours to allot and invest as you wish

While true, I'm not an investor, I'm a software engineer. I don't know good investments from bad, so if I tried to invest myself as an uninformed person, odds are good I will lose a lot of money very quickly. And becoming an informed investor is a lot of time and effort I don't have. I rely on the managed plan because I know there are professionals handling it.

based on the investment options your company chose or negotiating with them to administer your company’s plan.

My employer actually switched our 401k's from ML to John Hancock. I had no say in this, I don't know if JH is more or less competent as a firm than ML. So if I have fewer choices because I don't know how to invest and would prefer someone to manage it, I have even fewer choices because I don't even get to choose who manages it.

That said, 401ks are awful and a sham that were pushed on an uninformed public

This is where we most agree. Most people don't know how to invest, so they either let the retirement funds handle it, or they try it themselves. If they try it themselves, they either have to learn how to invest, or they have to get lucky. If the funds handle it, they can be lured in by "stable, lucrative" investments that turn out to be bad, like Mortgage-Backed Securities. Even informed investors can lose money. No matter which path we follow, it all becomes gambling in the end. It's unacceptable that retirement funds are treated as such.

EldritchFeminity ,

The 401k replaced the pension. It used to be that a company would pay for your retirement, now you pay for your own by being forced to pay into the stock market, and it doesn’t go nearly as far as the pensions used to. People are working well into their 60s or older, because 401k’s often don’t pay out enough to live on. It’s another way that companies have figured out to avoid having to pay their employees while pumping up the value of the stock market at the same time.

stoly ,

In the late 80s and early 90s, all the badly managed companies went bankrupt and convinced business friendly judges to delete pensions, too expensive, you see. This left a lot of boomers and their parents with nothing all of a sudden.

The 401k problem is that you are now responsible for managing things and all the liability that brings. Pensions were managed by professionals.

gravitas_deficiency ,

As a millennial: I think it’s the dichotomy between “I play the game even though I hate it because it genuinely feels like the only viable option to have a remotely satisfying life” and “fuck the game”.

JDubbleu ,

As an older Gen Z I concur. Even those of us who aren’t completely fucked are extremely anti-corporate with little loyalty to any job. There’s a guy named Jordan Howlett who I feel sums up the average Gen Z attitude towards all the bullshit in the world really well.

Don’t get me wrong I still work hard and try to do well at my job, but the second I hit my time for the day I’m gone. Work is strictly transactional. No one expects their employer to give them money for time they didn’t work, so I ain’t about to give my employer time for money they didn’t give me. They’ll also fire my ass the second they need a stock bump, so I’ll be damned if I’m gonna stick around if I find something better.

paraphrand ,

It’s a gradient.

Pips , (edited )

Actually the biggest difference I’ve seen isn’t in effort but ability. I work with everyone from Boomers to Gen Z and by far my Gen Z coworkers have the hardest time with being given a general task and completing it without detailed instructions. Even with detailed instructions, I often have to repeat the instructions due to mistakes and check my younger colleagues’ work more closely.

I think this is, in part, because Gen Z grew up with things that just worked or that they needed to go to a third party to fix if there were issues. Boomers fixed their own cars and did a lot of DIY home repair, Gen X and Millenials both learned to navigate computers and the internet before there were any real instructional guides or helpful UIs. Shit, we used to program games on our calculators for fun. I think many in Gen Z just never had that because many of those DIY elements require proprietary tools now. A smartphone just works and is designed to be so intuitive a baby can figure it out. It’s not their fault, but it does mean that some critical thinking skills are absent because they’re used to outsourcing the solutions to those problems.

But, again, I have never perceived that they’re not hard workers. On the contrary, I’d argue my Gen Z coworkers, when they’re on their game, are way more efficient than everyone else and definitely work smarter, not harder, which I try to learn from them.

stoly ,

I manage teams at a university. Gen Z types tend to be very motivated but won’t easily do useless busy work just cuz you think they should. You need to motivate them. That’s the boss’ job, though.

The real problem was the previous generations who happily devoted themselves to their bosses getting richer.

Pips ,

That’s pretty true of every generation. If you give anyone a seemingly boring task with no explanation why it matters, they’re going to suck at it. What I’m saying is I can’t give my Gen Z coworkers an open ended task without detailed instructions, even when I explain why it’s important.

Kepabar ,

Man, I barely graduated from high school because I saw the entire thing as busy work.

My grade in any class was dependant on how much the tests were weighed versus any class or homework. Sleeping or reading through class was my usual.

Now that I’m older I see the value in building the discipline needed to do that sort of busy work because if I don’t my house falls apart and such, so there’s that.

I wish it didn’t take me so long to learn it though.

Pips ,

The other half that a lot of kids (me included when I was younger) miss is the stuff that seems useless is still building a base of knowledge and shaping how you think critically. Just knowing more stuff allows you to connect more things in your head, enabling you to problem solve in completely unrelated areas better. It’s not obvious how helpful that knowledge foundation is until you have more life experience.

And hey, at least you got the discipline now.

doingless ,

Half of genx too but nobody ever mentions us.

kowcop ,

Where are they living while ‘living’? Costs money to live…

half_built_pyramids ,

I’m immediately click bait suspicious of any reporting that’s generation says this.

S_204 ,

This generation says they’re not falling for your clickbait headlines!

Mango ,

Yeah and a “future-of-work expert”? 🤣

z3rOR0ne ,
@z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml avatar

Pfft. This article isn’t nearly in depth enough on the topic.

How about the fact that minimum wage hasn’t kept up with inflation? How about the fact that social security and medicare will be gutted by the time they reach elder years? If they reach those elder years at all with all the homelessness, famine, drought, war, and genocide that is already here and creeping into even the most affluent parts of society?

When you ask why kids don’t want to work these days, perhaps you’re not asking the right question because the better question is so uncomfortable, you’d rather not ask it?

Cuz the better question is “Why would kids even want to live in this increasingly nightmarish world my and previous generations have all had a hand in creating?”

But hey, don’t worry about it. Just keep your head in the sand, keep removed about shit you don’t want to understand, and count your stock options, capitalism daddy. /s

SlopppyEngineer ,

Recently the boss asked since guy why he doesn’t put in more effort for the end of year evaluation and a promotion. Guy opens a spreadsheet that he’d been working on. It basically shows that even when he’d double his wage in that promotion, he still would not be able to afford a house and felt striving for a promotion in those circumstances didn’t matter much. The boss left.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

When you ask why kids don’t want to work these days…

It’s simple - just don’t ever ask:-). \s :-( 🥲

And yeah, the rate of suicide (including overdosing) is quite shocking. Or depending on who you ask I would guess, “excellent” (evil laughter while wringing hands). Factors like race or even class doesn’t seem to matter to them (edit: okay so they do matter, but it still happens across all of them) - globalization and mechanization means fewer workers are necessary, hence what is not necessary is irrelevant, to The (Illuminati’s) Machine, that cares only for survival of the fittest. :-|

Oh, and no - “keeping removed about shit” implies things like not actively voting to take away further rights & privileges. Roe v. Wade was just the start! Next are elections and democracy itself… I only wish I could add a /s here, but from the chatter… it’s no longer just a joking matter anymore? :-( That generation isn’t done yet it seems, implementing the will of whatever their chosen TV Man tells them to do:-(.

Like “You Must Bow Before the Will of God” - oh so you mean like care about people, taking care of widows & orphans, pay workers the wages they are due, always show kindness and compassion even to the undeserving, stuff like that? “No, I meant lower taxes on the top 0.0000001% - and also wipe my butt for me”. Ooookkkkkkaaaaayyyyyy then…

On the bright side, Gen-Z has stuff figured out - they know how to be happier, simply by not giving a shit:-D. Yes they will suffer - as will we all - but less so, having broken free from that horrible mindset that blinded their predecessors? :-)

_number8_ ,

it’s genuinely bewildering seeing someone my age talk about a ‘career’…like…what dude? oh maybe if i work hard the guy will shake my hand and give me a raise? do you live in a norman rockwell painting?

menthol ,

Meanwhile, celebrities including Whoopi Goldberg have dismissed their economic struggles. She said they couldn’t afford to buy a house because they’re lazy and “only want to work four hours” a day.

Is every single host of The View a giant piece of shit, or what? We saw this exact same bullshit just the other day from one of the other ones. They should change the name to The Karen.

AnarchoSnowPlow ,

They all belong to a specific economic class.

Money rots your brain.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

The problem, or at least one of them, is that those words resonate so well with her viewers. I am not excusing her, but if she did not say them then someone else would - so yeah it’s more the game than the playa.

People in Gen-Z just don’t work hard as often. Ofc there are reasons: why should they, when their work isn’t valued/rewarded properly? So then to the self-ish/-centered crowd, all they see is that they get served less well by their Gen-Z slaves workers than the Millennials who put in more of an effort, but rather than take ownership of that and like go somewhere else that pays their workers better, they instead blame the victim. Like, “I paid a whole dollar for this burger - why aren’t you smiling at me harder as you walk out in the rain to hand-deliver it to me?”

Like if you have to live with your parents or roommates anyway, and have little to no hope of ever owning your own home, or possibly even car, and also can’t afford health insurance, to get married, and after over-turning of Roe v. Wade to have sex (even if you were married), etc. then why should you work more than the bare minimum to survive?

If you kick a dog often enough, it stops being happy to see you.:-( Boomers solution: it must need to be kicked harder, until it complies and wags its tail enthusiastically whenever you come home. I am sorry if it breaks your heart to read that sentence… but fwiw, at least it proves you have one:-).

menthol ,

People in Gen-Z just don’t work hard as often.

Is that really true though? I’m Gen-X and they said the same thing about us, and then the Millennials, and now the current gen. I think quit quitting is largely a myth and plenty of GenZ are working their asses off. They’re not getting the same rewards. But I can also understand if some them do choose to opt out. But the fact that they can’t afford to buy homes is not proof that they are lazy.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

That’s a good point but… I honestly do not know. We used to have access to “reporting” that would tell us “facts”, but now everything is commercialized to sell us whatever story seems most appealing to us (positively or negatively, whatever you will click on really: sex sells, fear even better, anger best of all) - so I’m sure you can find reports on all possible sides telling different stories, all with short-changed selections of facts and virtually no analysis to speak of. Unless a highly-trusted source chooses to take on a precise topic and you happen to have consumed it already (and remember it), you are basically SOL. Like, how do people even buy things anymore, either online or in physical stores, except by just gambling and hoping for the best from a purchase? Clothes just flat disintegrate, … okay, I better keep focus here:-).

I tend to think that Gen-Z likely do work less hard - as a trend if not individually ofc - b/c of the reasons behind it, after all why would they work equally as hard, when they are being offered a fraction of the compensation? BTW I never said that they were lazy, and I tried to go to some trouble to explain why it is understandable how they are reacting - e.g. in the kick the dog example, it’s not the dog’s fault for not liking the master that kicked it so very, very often?

As one example, something that enticed previous generations to work hard was to own a home. But now, if that is off the table… (or maybe, if they think it is? I’m not certain of this aspect) then they don’t need to work as hard, to own something that they can never own anyway?

Another thing that enticed previous generations to work hard for was to get a college degree. But now, with that costing >5x as much, and it being worth sth like 1/10th of what it was to previous generations (where are these magical “jobs” that offer things like “benefits” - and “stability” and “pensions” are pretty much flat gone, as too are the social security along with medicare/medicaid safety nets, etc.), plus colleges themselves are fairly predatory, many just don’t bother. But there’s a whole spectrum here: if they do go, they often don’t work hard in them - not that colleges demand that anymore, b/c again, they are predatory, and their purpose is to pump either the kids or their parents (or loans, whoever signed them) for as much money as they can get out of them, which doesn’t happen if they flunk out too awfully early…

Still another thing used to be to get married, have kids, and independent of whether owning a home or not, to raise a family. This we can directly measure: isn’t Gen-Z doing much less of any of this?

Boomers worked hard b/c they saw value ahead in doing so. Gen-Z is getting their quality of life now, while the getting is good, b/c that is all that is left for them to be able to do.:-( No matter our age, we will all die sooner, and in much greater levels of pain and misery (if only second-hand by hearing stories of the exploitation going on around us) than our parents’ generation - the Republicans have already seen to that and will most definitely continue to push much harder on that front still. :-(

menthol ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    OpenStars ,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    Precisely my point. Like when you kick a dog, why would it say “thank you”, or “please sir, but could you kick me again some more, and this time harder”? THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN!

    The younger generations have given up, hence they do not work as hard, but it wasn’t their choice - they simply reacted to what was offered them. From a pure game-theoretical standpoint even, it is the right call to maximize gains and minimize losses, given the rules under which they are “playing”.

    But the people blaming the younger generations… it is like blaming that dog, rather than the one who kicked it - it makes no sense?

    Sterile_Technique ,
    @Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world avatar

    That cycle will continue until we’re extinct, because almost without exception, we conflate generations with age ranges… so every generation will think the one behind it is lazy because they judge that next generation when it’s made up of a bunch of kids.

    And no shit, kids aren’t great workers :shockedpikachu:

    The kids grow up, but the reputation lingers… until the next batch of kids enters the stage, and wouldn’t ya know it, them kids are absolutely shit workers! :shockedpikachu:

    Rinse and repeat until the oxygen concentration in our atmosphere is no longer sufficient to support human life… so… couple more decades? /shrug

    Kushia ,
    @Kushia@lemmy.ml avatar

    The cost of living crisis in western countries at the moment feels like a stand off between boomers and gen Z over exactly this. One one hand you have the boomers expecting the same service and quality while paying less and less, on the other you have gen Z who refuse to do it for the pittance. So the cost of living is now skyrocketing in an attempt to strong-arm gen Z into compliance.

    OpenStars ,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    I understand that it looks that way from the outside, but that is far too simplistic - i.e., correlation is not causation, especially where the latter is already known. What is CAUSING so much pain right now is corporate greed, and what ALLOWS that is primarily voting Democrat vs. Republican, with the heaviest voting block being evangelical Christian vs. not. A complicating factor is that baby boomers are somewhat insulated from the worst effects, plus their retirement savings are often tied up into the stock market that is what rich people want to succeed, plus they don’t do themselves much credit by being remarkably unsympathetic to the plight of how the younger generations are being sold into corporate near-slavery, plus on top of it all they do trend more towards voting conservative to begin with, etc. But e.g. a young Republican does far more harm than an old Democrat, i.e. age is one of the more minor correlating effects.

    An illustration may help: right now if a 10-year old girl is raped by her very own father and gets pregnant, the primary discriminator of whether she will live or is consigned to have a VERY good chance of dying (in agony) is whether she lives in an area that votes primarily Democratic or one that votes primarily Republican. This is the stuff that is literally life and death.

    Beyond that, the effects of inflation, the availability of jobs, whether the government of the state that you are in is bankrupt, and/or has any/no competent/sufficient firefighters/police/teachers/medical staff/etc. all correlate with Republican vs. Democrat. Look at COVID death rates to see which area is which, especially after the vaccine existed.

    In short, there are two different Americas right now, one being mostly third-world (except still has internet and TV and cars and stuff, but I still would not call it second-world when the child mortality rate is somewhere between Rwanda and Uganda, and has been about that level for decades) and the other first-world. And they are tearing at each other, one being never happy with the way things are and wanting to go still further back in time, floating such thoughts as whether women should still be allowed to vote, plus literally calling for a “national divorce” (with prejudice - i.e. a literal, murderous, bloody Civil War part 2), and the other also wanting basically not that. So similar to Brexit, we are basically ready for Amexit? Except from ourselves. Which will affect the entire fucking world b/c if Biden loses and Trump comes in again, what are the chances that this time he discovers that he can control nukes?

    Anyway, yes old people helped bring this about, but mostly by inaction and while I am not saying that mistakes were not made, I am saying that much of the media rhetoric about the generations being at each others’ throats is… if not entirely false, then at least mostly so. i.e., it is not old people attacking the younger ones, it is corporations attacking us all (but who would like it very much if we would simply pretend that they were not involved? thus they bought up all the media, and now good luck hearing a story that ever says that they are complicit in anything).

    ArugulaZ ,
    @ArugulaZ@kbin.social avatar

    Why the hell shouldn't they?

    some_guy ,

    “Gen Z is catching on. Vilify them!”

    the_q ,

    No one has ever wanted to work.

    GladiusB ,
    @GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

    This is a hot take. People have definitely wanted to work. The problem is now we don’t need to. There was a point that humans needed to work or we would not evolve as a species. There are many that took pride in being a part of that. Now that need has shifted into we could feasibly feed and shelter every soul on the planet and a few greedy fucks don’t know how to coordinate it with all their riches.

    executivechimp ,
    @executivechimp@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Depends what you mean by work. People always want to do things and create things and help others. They don’t want to spend 8 hours a day doing menial, meaningless crap just to be able live.

    GladiusB ,
    @GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

    My point is that they did. Back when there was a sense of accomplishment that added to the human existence. There was a sense of pride to a lot of workers in the 50s for many reasons. I do agree that it has changed. And a lot of it has to do with the rewards given. But they still exist.

    the_q ,

    I don’t think they have. I think they were made to labor under the whip or under a promise for something. You’re like that other guy thinking the guy cracking the whip or promoting the latest video game are “working”.

    The freedom to pursue ones interests isn’t work.

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    You make it sound like there is only dirt poor people forced to work or criminally rich people with “freedom to peruse their interests”

    Somehow having a job you like in this situation makes it not work.

    LOL, nah man, I found WORK and I like it and it’s still called WORK.

    the_q ,

    Whatever you need to tell yourself.

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    The idea that work stops being work if you enjoy it not something I can take seriously.

    the_q ,

    Working in a textile mill in 120 degree heat is work. It’s work no one wants to do. No one comes in and argues pedantically about “well I find sweating my ass off for minimum wage fulfilling”. That’s work.

    Going into your temperature controlled office where you’re a CPA and get paid wonderfully and enjoy numbers isn’t the same thing at all.

    The work I’m referencing is the bottom tier shit that without it the economy would crumble. Not your SEO manager bullshit job that you think you love cause you’re making 6 figures in a 5 figure town.

    snek , (edited )
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Buddy, working in a textile mill in 48 °C is a safety hazard and modern slavery. You have a weird warped pedantic perspective on what work means. And somejow the rest of us should take the dictionary definition and throw it out of the window and instead adopt your made up definition that seems to only work in your head? 😬 No thanks.

    The first is modern slavery. The second is work. Hope it helps! Cheers.

    Ps: SEO manager? Clearly it was a mistake to engage you at all because you didn’t read squat shit of what I wrote. Note to the future: do not engage people who haven’t even read your own text, and don’t bother reading their text to the end. They are upset at a phantom in their heads, not you.

    the_q ,

    Yeah you’re definitely one of those people that talks louder than whoever they’re talking with and assumes they’re right. Enjoy your “work”.

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    I am enjoying it, thanks.

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Wow what a sweeping statement with no legs to stand on.

    I love work. I worked (yes) quite hard to get a degree and become a developer and ML engineer. One day, I’d like to work in computational neuroscience. I hate so many things about work culture, but the work itself? Naaah, it’s awesome. I’d rather spend every day in this life working on something I love and have interested in, instead of going around making sweeping statements about the entire globe on the internet, incapable of accepting that not everyone is like me.

    owen ,

    Modern “work” does not involve doing something you’re passionate about or interested in for the vast majority of people…

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Yep so not “all” of them.

    owen ,

    Check out the term “hyperbole”

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh my oh my sorry for taking people in the internet at face value. Next time I’ll just guess what their thought process was and live my life based on that.

    owen ,

    Thanks but apology declined

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Here’s another one: I’m so sorry your life must really suck with work and all to the point that you can’t see other people enjoying it and where you feel the need to say they aren’t really “working” just because they found something they love and succeeded in navigating the shitty system (out or merit or luck or privilege, whatever) and you didn’t /:

    We can all be on the same side. I hate modern work culture and I actively try to improve it and myself day after day. I’m sure you do too.

    Could you accept that one too?

    Cheers bud.

    owen ,

    No. Also, I like my job

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Of course you do 🙄

    owen ,

    ?

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Nothing, I just totally believe you and agree with you. Have a nice day. ☺️

    owen ,

    You need to consider that most jobs out there are simply things that need to be done, not things that people are passionate about. Getting a higher eductation and a complex job is something for which I consider myself very lucky. I was born with all the opportunities to do so. Despite these privileges, I acknowledge that the people doing the fundamental, low level jobs deserve adequate compensation to lead a happy life

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    You need to consider that most jobs out there are simply things that need to be done

    This was always my view. I don’t think I said anything at all that implies otherwise. So we already agree. My original comment was in response to someone saying no one ever in existence wanted to work. Surely you’ve met idiots on the internet and had to explain things to them before, no? Hard for me to assume they were using a literary device. I’d rather take them at face value.

    Melatonin ,

    Lol, good try at turning snek’s argument against him, but that was clearly sarcasm.

    owen is the reason /s was invented.

    owen ,

    Burh. As if I would say “apology declined” in earnest

    Melatonin ,

    Cheating. This is akin to saying, “I was just kidding!”

    owen ,

    Cheating? This isn’t a game, it’s a conversation

    Melatonin ,

    Cheating. Changed the definition of the word “work”

    the_q ,

    Whatever you do isn’t work, buddy and you knew that before replying.

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    It literally Is work, and you knew that before replying /: see we can both say shit like that.

    the_q ,

    You need it to be defined as work.

    SuddenDownpour ,

    I feel the same way.

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Then get ready for lots of downvotes because apparently pointing out that someone made a sweeping generalization then telling the world you’re one of those few who enjoy their jobs means you deserve being downvoted to hell 😁

    Melatonin ,

    snek’s statement still stands. They announced they love work. It negates the prior statement. Why downvote then?

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    I thought this was Work Reform, not Anti Work 😭 my mistake

    mo_lave ,

    If you live in more ancient times, do you want to be a slave?

    GrayBackgroundMusic ,

    Soft disagree. I want to do meaningful work and interesting work. It’s boring bullshit getting 10 managers to approve a change when none of them know what I even do. I love working on my projects in my garage, or in my kitchen on baking something.

    Donkter ,

    Promise of what? I think the major change with millennials and gen z is that we see through the dogmatism that is corporate culture. Even if the promise was that of the “American dream” 50 years ago it’s quite clearly not worth it to sacrifice your youth and 1/3 of your life (another third being sleep) to afford to sit around in a house and squeeze in stagnant social obligations for the rest of your life.

    Life is what you make of it, and familial loyalty to a company that doesn’t care about me just doesn’t cut it.

    autokludge ,
    @autokludge@programming.dev avatar

    A corporate ‘promise’ is a verbal unenforceable contract. What do you even do with the promise of a habitual liar?

    Algaroth ,

    A house? In this economy?

    owen ,

    A tent in the designated homelessness zone is more apt

    Algaroth ,

    A homeless zone? In this society?

    owen ,

    Hmm yeah you’re right. I guess I will just scuttle around the sewers on all fours and eat trash

    Algaroth ,

    You can order pizza according to the cartoons I grew up watching. It didn’t ever cover how the teenage turtles and their rat mentor made money. Try to find a reporter in a jumpsuit she might be able to help.

    not_again ,

    Surely you overestimate their chances.

    raynethackery ,

    Too bad the Force isn’t with us.

    perpetually_fried ,

    Then don’t work at a corporation. There are plenty of startups / small businesses out there who are in dire need of talented people.

    EldritchFeminity ,

    In my experience, small businesses can be even worse, because they’re run by the kind of middle management that everybody hates in a big company. Except now they’re the boss and have final say over everything that happens in the company.

    balancedchaos ,

    My brother works for a small business. They got him in the door by being his buddy, just fun-loving fellow millennials who love to have a great time at work while having plenty of opportunities to move up within the company!

    …he hasn’t gotten a raise in three years, and has had myriad issues unfairly pinned on him (legitimately) so he can’t move up in the ranks.

    They’re just young boomers doing the same boomer shit, but they’re a little younger and cooler, bro!

    EldritchFeminity ,

    Yep, worked for a small business as a teen. My experience was that the boss was decent at giving us raises every year, but got pissed when people gave us tips, never had enough people on hand to account for kids going on vacation or getting sick, and, as my buddy would say, “he’s the first person to tell you that there’s more than one way to skin a cat - but his way is the right way.” Dude couldn’t understand why kids on their summer vacation wouldn’t want to work 45 hours a week.

    stoly ,

    Yes, but there’s a ping pong table and open bar dontchaknow?

    stoly ,

    My experience agrees with this 100%.

    stoly ,

    The single most toxic place to work is a startup. The people who make it there tend to be entitled narcissists.

    jackalope ,

    Start ups are still corps bud.

    stoly ,

    Some of us gen x saw this in high school but were surrounded by angry boomers who treated us like we were idiots.

    umbrella ,
    @umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

    i remember reading similar headlines about millenials… this bullshit is always targeted at young adults, and its always the same superficial “analysis”

    Shapillon ,

    from a “future of work expert”

    bAZtARd ,

    A guy from my wife’s age group is a federal government advisor regarding future of work. He has never worked a day in a proper job at a company. Only academics and politics.

    Shapillon ,

    To me it reeked more of tv expertness than anything else. Usually real academics are tamer in their assertions and have pretty solid conclusions.

    1984 ,
    @1984@lemmy.today avatar

    Corporate America is a shit lifestyle and double digit iq is enough to realize that.

    paraphrand ,

    The internet is the reason they get to grow up with tons of details about how and why these promises are bullshit and vapor.

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