Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

I’m curious about how different Gen Z is from Millennials here, because everyone in my age range that I know seems to share this sentiment with them?

Ottomateeverything ,

I’m a millennial too, and I see some of this but it only seems to be some industries. I’m a programmer and my coworkers are like 90% about “the grindset”, but people I meet who are in health and wellness are 90% the other way. I also feel like cities and large metros tend to be more focused on work, and less urban areas are more focused on living.

I would say a lot of millenials are this way too, and it’s not fair to say it’s just a gem z thing, but it’s far from the majority… At least around me. There seem to at least be pockets of it, but overall I feel like it’s closer to 20%.

With gen z, I feel like the people are way more heavily skewed the other way. I’ve had gen z general contractors and such just cut the bullshit, tell it like it is, and show that they value ME more than THEIR BOSS. It seems much more universal in their generation.

But that’s just my experience. I dunno which is more universal.

ThePyroPython ,

So you’re saying that Gen Z just lay the truth out and finish their statement with “no cap”?

DaCookeyMonsta ,

I feel like millennials have a “It is what it is, guess ill work til I die” attitude whereas Gen Z have more of a Bartleby the Scrivener “I’d rather not” energy.

UsefulInfoPlz ,

Gen x here and we seen it coming as well but no options for us at the time. I don’t blame any of you. Corporate greed and the great 401k lie is bullshit. They want us to work till we’re dead. Screw them.

7u5k3n ,

The great 401k lie?

HarkMahlberg ,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.social avatar

Can't speak for OP, but I don't look at the 401k as a stable retirement vehicle. It's a vehicle to pump "dumb money" (read: casino chips) into the stock market. If the stock market downturns just before you retire, if the firm managing your 401k makes bad investments, if another 2008-style real estate collapse happens, your retirement fund suddenly has less money in it than you hoped, so you're gonna have to work longer.

pdxfed ,

if the firm managing your 401k makes a bad investment

The administrator of your accounts has zero control over most of the funds available in them, their rise or fall, and your funds are separate from any investments that financial institution may or may not have made.

If you have a 401k with fidelity, or ADP or Schwab or Trowe Price or whoever, some of those are banks, soke finance companies, some payroll, anyway, the point is for each, the money in your account is yours to allot and invest as you wish based on yhe invesrment options your company chose or negotiating with them to administer your company’s plan. The admin makes money by admin fees, not by taking your money and reinvesting it in something you don’t know about. Granted, yes if there is a stock market crash, most financial companies will similarly overall struggle, but they have lots of arms and operations (mortgage loans, commercial, consumer banking, investment banking, etc.) and they are 100% all disconnected from the money in your 401k.

That said, 401ks are awful and a sham that were pushed on an uninformed public and we’ve only just begun to see the effects as the first generation reaches end of work age…and can’t stop working. It’ll continue. Props to anyone fighting and organizing against it or trying to avoid as much as possible. System fully bought and broken by greed.

Psychodelic ,

What’s the point of your first two paragraphs? The person you responded to is 100% right. The point is to pump money in to the fuckin stock market so the wealthiest people can profit off that “investment”

pdxfed ,

The point was is the plan administrator has no control over whether the value of his account goes up and down, which Op said they did. I agree with everything else Op said but think it’s important since most people don’t understand the mechanics to learn about them so added the correct info.

AtariDump ,

When the plan administrator is picking the stocks in their “Target Retirement 2055” account, I’d say they have a large amount of control.

Now the S&P 500? Probably no control. But is it truly the S&P 500 or some bull shirt index fund from the 401k provider that’s not 100% following the S&P 500?

pdxfed ,

The portion of the comment I replied to, which I highlighted at the top of my response was that Op had said that “if the company managing your 4401k makes a bad investment”, concerned that (among Ops other accurate concerns) your 401k funds could be used elsewhere without your knowledge or permission by the plan administrator, which they can’t. So I corrected it.

Lazy people immediately REEE when someone doesn’t immediately jump on the tribal circle jerk and agree even when parts of a statement are incorrect. Ops point was overall correct and a good one and correcting something that was wrong doesn’t mean I disagree with the rest of it. Lookup false dichotomy.

AtariDump ,

If you’re investment is in the hands of a company that’s manually picking and choosing you’re in bad hands.

Better?

HarkMahlberg ,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.social avatar

Thanks for the informed take.

the money in your account is yours to allot and invest as you wish

While true, I'm not an investor, I'm a software engineer. I don't know good investments from bad, so if I tried to invest myself as an uninformed person, odds are good I will lose a lot of money very quickly. And becoming an informed investor is a lot of time and effort I don't have. I rely on the managed plan because I know there are professionals handling it.

based on the investment options your company chose or negotiating with them to administer your company’s plan.

My employer actually switched our 401k's from ML to John Hancock. I had no say in this, I don't know if JH is more or less competent as a firm than ML. So if I have fewer choices because I don't know how to invest and would prefer someone to manage it, I have even fewer choices because I don't even get to choose who manages it.

That said, 401ks are awful and a sham that were pushed on an uninformed public

This is where we most agree. Most people don't know how to invest, so they either let the retirement funds handle it, or they try it themselves. If they try it themselves, they either have to learn how to invest, or they have to get lucky. If the funds handle it, they can be lured in by "stable, lucrative" investments that turn out to be bad, like Mortgage-Backed Securities. Even informed investors can lose money. No matter which path we follow, it all becomes gambling in the end. It's unacceptable that retirement funds are treated as such.

EldritchFeminity ,

The 401k replaced the pension. It used to be that a company would pay for your retirement, now you pay for your own by being forced to pay into the stock market, and it doesn’t go nearly as far as the pensions used to. People are working well into their 60s or older, because 401k’s often don’t pay out enough to live on. It’s another way that companies have figured out to avoid having to pay their employees while pumping up the value of the stock market at the same time.

stoly ,

In the late 80s and early 90s, all the badly managed companies went bankrupt and convinced business friendly judges to delete pensions, too expensive, you see. This left a lot of boomers and their parents with nothing all of a sudden.

The 401k problem is that you are now responsible for managing things and all the liability that brings. Pensions were managed by professionals.

gravitas_deficiency ,

As a millennial: I think it’s the dichotomy between “I play the game even though I hate it because it genuinely feels like the only viable option to have a remotely satisfying life” and “fuck the game”.

JDubbleu ,

As an older Gen Z I concur. Even those of us who aren’t completely fucked are extremely anti-corporate with little loyalty to any job. There’s a guy named Jordan Howlett who I feel sums up the average Gen Z attitude towards all the bullshit in the world really well.

Don’t get me wrong I still work hard and try to do well at my job, but the second I hit my time for the day I’m gone. Work is strictly transactional. No one expects their employer to give them money for time they didn’t work, so I ain’t about to give my employer time for money they didn’t give me. They’ll also fire my ass the second they need a stock bump, so I’ll be damned if I’m gonna stick around if I find something better.

paraphrand ,

It’s a gradient.

Pips , (edited )

Actually the biggest difference I’ve seen isn’t in effort but ability. I work with everyone from Boomers to Gen Z and by far my Gen Z coworkers have the hardest time with being given a general task and completing it without detailed instructions. Even with detailed instructions, I often have to repeat the instructions due to mistakes and check my younger colleagues’ work more closely.

I think this is, in part, because Gen Z grew up with things that just worked or that they needed to go to a third party to fix if there were issues. Boomers fixed their own cars and did a lot of DIY home repair, Gen X and Millenials both learned to navigate computers and the internet before there were any real instructional guides or helpful UIs. Shit, we used to program games on our calculators for fun. I think many in Gen Z just never had that because many of those DIY elements require proprietary tools now. A smartphone just works and is designed to be so intuitive a baby can figure it out. It’s not their fault, but it does mean that some critical thinking skills are absent because they’re used to outsourcing the solutions to those problems.

But, again, I have never perceived that they’re not hard workers. On the contrary, I’d argue my Gen Z coworkers, when they’re on their game, are way more efficient than everyone else and definitely work smarter, not harder, which I try to learn from them.

stoly ,

I manage teams at a university. Gen Z types tend to be very motivated but won’t easily do useless busy work just cuz you think they should. You need to motivate them. That’s the boss’ job, though.

The real problem was the previous generations who happily devoted themselves to their bosses getting richer.

Pips ,

That’s pretty true of every generation. If you give anyone a seemingly boring task with no explanation why it matters, they’re going to suck at it. What I’m saying is I can’t give my Gen Z coworkers an open ended task without detailed instructions, even when I explain why it’s important.

Kepabar ,

Man, I barely graduated from high school because I saw the entire thing as busy work.

My grade in any class was dependant on how much the tests were weighed versus any class or homework. Sleeping or reading through class was my usual.

Now that I’m older I see the value in building the discipline needed to do that sort of busy work because if I don’t my house falls apart and such, so there’s that.

I wish it didn’t take me so long to learn it though.

Pips ,

The other half that a lot of kids (me included when I was younger) miss is the stuff that seems useless is still building a base of knowledge and shaping how you think critically. Just knowing more stuff allows you to connect more things in your head, enabling you to problem solve in completely unrelated areas better. It’s not obvious how helpful that knowledge foundation is until you have more life experience.

And hey, at least you got the discipline now.

doingless ,

Half of genx too but nobody ever mentions us.

Perhapsjustsniffit ,

X’er here. Been doing this my entire life. Fuck the corporate overlords. Everyone should prioritize life over work. Unfortunately for most the world is against them in this regard.

GnomeKat ,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

For you what does prioritizing life over work look like exactly? Genuinely curious.

Psythik ,

It means only working as hard as you’re paid to. If the multi-billion dollar megacorp you’re working for is only paying you $18/hr, you only put in an $18/hr effort; i.e. Work just barely hard enough to not get fired.

GnomeKat ,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I was curious about Perhapsjustsniffit but thanks for your input as well

jjjalljs ,

Yeah, this is generally an ok attitude.

The only exception I think is worth thinking about is “Don’t minimum-ass it in a way that makes it suck for your peers.” Like, don’t work nights and weekends to hit unrealistic goals, agreed. But like I won’t push up half-assed untested code that you’re going to have to maintain. I’m having trouble coming up with good examples off the top of my head.

timmy_dean_sausage ,

That’s the style I generally strive for. I take pride in doing my job well, living up to standards that I set for myself. I also don’t do anything extra and will leave a job site if a job is designed in a way that has me sitting around waiting on other people. I say no to employers/clients all the time and will happily/tactfully explain why, if asked. My employers/clients know that it’s a two way street with me, and I will not be exploited or let anyone on my team (on a given day) be exploited. Unfortunately, I had to spend over a decade being exploited to get to the point in my career were I’m valuable enough to be able to put my foot down. So there’s that…

saintshenanigans , (edited )

The Corp is giving you the bare minimum they are legally required to give you, so you should do the same. This means clocking out at 5 sharp, and not picking up extra responsibilities without a pay increase.

But it also means you still have to put in the minimum required, show up on time, do all of the work. But keep in mind the Corp is the enemy here, not your coworkers. Don’t leave them waiting on you for a deadline if you can bust it out in a few minutes

Psythik , (edited )

That’s a great point and actually a perfect example of how I really feel when I say “work hard enough to not get fired”. Should also add, “so long as it’s not at the expense of your coworkers” to that saying.

AnarchistArtificer ,

For one of my friends, who I respect greatly, it means coming to terms with the fact that it’s not plausible for them to get a job that they’re passionate, in their field of study. They have less identity based attachment to the job they do have, and whilst they do generally like their job, they see it as a means to an end.

They know they probably could find a better job, perhaps even one in their field, but they’re happy with the balance of priorities they have now because it’s mostly working.

stoly ,

The old way was to convince people to devote their lives to the company, only to be laid off when convenient. The new way is to treat a job like a job and live your own life.

saintshenanigans ,

Job keeps me fed, housed, sane, and puts some fun money in my pocket. The second it fails at any one of those, start looking.

jj4211 ,

For me, it’s shutting out work correspondence right at 5pm. Working from home most of the time. If some life circumstance vaguely demands my time in a way that conflicts with work, the life circumstance will win.

It’s not horribly absolute. I did connect when I got a request to help some customers in Ukraine, figuring the very least I could do was help them out. Another customer that generally represents 30-40 million a year of revenue needed help off hours in December, and I obliged. In the event of a genuine emergency I’ll be flexible (but in a hurry to get it over with, even if it means “slap flex tape on it and it should hold things over” sort of approach).

Keep in mind this is grading on a curve. A close colleague works in person at the office 6 or 7 days a week, generally for 9 or 10 hours, and on top of that spends much of his home time remotely working on things too. He complains that if not everyone matches his work ethic that we won’t hit “the schedule”, and I respond if that’s the case, then there’s a problem with “the schedule”, not with people failing to work enough. Eternally poor planning with arbitrarily declared deadlines are not a legitimate source of emergency, and I won’t play along with that.

Perhapsjustsniffit , (edited )

I’m 50 now. I’ve never held a job more than 5-6 years my entire life and I have changed professions many many times. I never bought into that work till you die life. I only worked to be able to afford the things I actually wanted and I prioritized adventure over stability. I moved all around the country (Canada) and travelled internationally by holding a job long enough to get to the next place and so on. I’ve recently learned I probably have ADHD which could account for some of my lifestyle choices.

After I was married my wife and I decided to start working toward a zero bill goal. We paid off all of our bills and eliminated wherever we could. We prioritized getting in nature and our own form of travel over keeping up with the Jones’. We saved everything else and invested what seemed a meager $500 into canadian cannabis just prior to legalization. Mostly on a whim. I personally learned to trade and moved that until it was enough to buy a house and some land where no one else wanted to live. We put some minor infrastructure in to help us grow food and invested in our land. All other investments, savings and any so called retirement went towards being mortgage free with enough space and the infrastructure to grow our own food. We have zero savings and less need for even a bank account than most. We recognise we were and are fortunate to get to where we are now. There was a lot of luck along the way.

Now we have a family. Our house bills include yearly taxes, internet and unfortunately power. Our truck is 16 years old and paid for. We forage, fish and hunt and grow pretty much all our own veg. I don’t work due to serious illnesses (yay Canada that I’m not way in debt there) and my spouse works about 5 months out of the year at a seasonal job so I don’t drive her crazy. We make less than $35,000/ Canadian a year and that’s enough. Our three kids wear second hand clothes except for outerwear because being dry and warm is important, they know how to pirate and adblock and they can grow food and cook. Our wants are few which makes our needs even less.

recapitated ,

Yeah I mean mad magazine was talking about gen x like this back in the 90s. But the media needs to pretend everything today is new or they’d have nothing to print.

jj4211 ,

Also, if you see some of the articles and movies from the 60s/70s, they were saying all this stuff about baby boomers too.

I saw somewhere where they gathered examples of “people in their 20s don’t want to work the same way the folks in their 40s did at their age” dating back to at least the mid nineteenth century.

I’ve also seen the point made that a lot of the assumptions about the boomers having it nice and easy comes from media products that strategically wanted to frame things as doing great, as they thought that’s what drove media consumption, folks wanting to feel good about the world. Now the general understanding is keeping people in an eternal state of panic and dread will keep those eyeballs glued to the product. Bad stuff happened back then too, and plenty of it should have been a more prominent source of dread by today’s standards.

Further, to the extent it was true, it was mostly a USA thing coming from a couple of phenomenon: -Every other major industrial economy had been severely impacted by World Wars I && II, with USA barely having a scratch. So for a good while, most of the economic activity favored the USA across the globe. -Factors like racism where huge swaths of the USA population ‘didn’t count’ when people were thinking how good things were going.

stoly ,

Checking in. We’re some of the few who didn’t adopt the boomer dream.

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

But we’re also demographically a lot smaller than boomers, millennials or zoomers, so we kind of flew under the radar.

stoly ,

Yep. Gen X didn’t really exist.

BeautifulMind , (edited )
@BeautifulMind@lemmy.world avatar

Also genX, I went hard in corporate life for a long time, survived many rounds of layoffs and watched good friends go for reasons that are bad ones- until one fine day I was laid off with 18,000 others. Meanwhile they kept hiring H1B workers and doing stock buybacks and doing mass-layoffs every 2 years to keep the regional labor market full of competition and wages depressed. Knowing that they’re not interested in keeping their promises of stability and prosperity goes a long ways towards me never going above and beyond

Drivebyhaiku ,

Agreed, , basically what the article here is saying that the kids were watching us and they don’t trust anybody. Hell, I never heard my Grand dad yell louder about what I am making. He worked union construction in the 80’s in the city I live in now and though I make more than a lot of construction guys I know on a similar docket I’m only making about 3$ more than what he did back then. He ranted for an hour when I told him what the standard rents and apartment sizes in my area. There is nothing so satisfying as having an stenetorian 86 year old positively enraged on behalf of the kids about their pay, working conditions and quality of life.

It’s been my personal mental balm to the placid incuriousity and damn near sociopathic lack of empathy I catch off some of the boomers and the elder millenials who picked up trades work immediately after highschool.

raynethackery ,

Also GenX. Not being able to afford treatment for mental illness robbed me of 20 years of living. I had better insurance in the 90s than I do now. Never thought I would miss my HMO from then.

aidan , (edited )

“If you like your plan you can keep it”

youtu.be/tLOV4oUXawg?si=vyTfxboTQUdLrcGD

fosforus ,

Everyone should prioritize life over work.

I agree. But also: nobody should expect others to carry them. You have to balance these two things in your life.

Since many people here are American, I feel like I need to clarify a bit. I live in a country where almost nobody works over 7,5h per day. And when they do, every hour is compensated for, sometimes with 150%/200% surcharge. I find it extremely weird that some people in a 1st world country work overtime for free, or generally speaking “work” over 8 hours per day in intellectual work on a regular basis.

aidan ,

I’m GenZ, it has nothing to do with stability, it has to do with what I want to exchange. I don’t want to exchange majority of my energy for more money than I need, I want to earn enough to live, and not work more than is required for that.

Isthisreddit ,

“for more money than I need” - that’s the real trick, employers aren’t exactly looking to give people more money than they need, it’s sort of the exact opposite typically

aidan ,

Eh, my current job, it’s more money than I need, but also way more time and energy commitment than I want.

Isthisreddit ,

I’d say your doing better than many if you have surplus money! But to your point, I do agree slaving away all day to make someone else rich sucks

aidan ,

This is GenZ we’re talking about, I’m from a fairly LCOL area, so most people I know, don’t have many responsibilities and rent and food aren’t too high. So I don’t think for my situation it’s that uncommon.

Crystal_Shards64 , (edited )

Lol I’m just about to ask my boss about raises this year. Let’s see what happens… 100% of my pay is going into cost of living right now

Edit: no idea as she hasn’t heard anything from HR. lmao I doubt we’ll be seeing much of anything even though we increased profits by 4 million a year this year.

piecat ,

And yet most of us are making way less than we need

aidan ,

In GenZ?

unreasonabro ,

dem bosses tho

kowalski ,

To add, what you need NOW is not what you need over your lifetime. Health insurance is needed regardless of your pay (outside most folks’ 20’s) and retirement savings are exactly what you don’t need now, but eventually will.

assassin_aragorn ,

I want to earn enough to live, and not work more than is required for that.

Management couldn’t fathom this at my first job. They’d tell us that everyone couldn’t be CEO but there were still great careers, and they didn’t understand when we asked about jobs where we wouldn’t climb the ladder necessarily, just do meaningful work.

Donkter ,

Promise of what? I think the major change with millennials and gen z is that we see through the dogmatism that is corporate culture. Even if the promise was that of the “American dream” 50 years ago it’s quite clearly not worth it to sacrifice your youth and 1/3 of your life (another third being sleep) to afford to sit around in a house and squeeze in stagnant social obligations for the rest of your life.

Life is what you make of it, and familial loyalty to a company that doesn’t care about me just doesn’t cut it.

autokludge ,
@autokludge@programming.dev avatar

A corporate ‘promise’ is a verbal unenforceable contract. What do you even do with the promise of a habitual liar?

Algaroth ,

A house? In this economy?

owen ,

A tent in the designated homelessness zone is more apt

Algaroth ,

A homeless zone? In this society?

owen ,

Hmm yeah you’re right. I guess I will just scuttle around the sewers on all fours and eat trash

Algaroth ,

You can order pizza according to the cartoons I grew up watching. It didn’t ever cover how the teenage turtles and their rat mentor made money. Try to find a reporter in a jumpsuit she might be able to help.

not_again ,

Surely you overestimate their chances.

raynethackery ,

Too bad the Force isn’t with us.

perpetually_fried ,

Then don’t work at a corporation. There are plenty of startups / small businesses out there who are in dire need of talented people.

EldritchFeminity ,

In my experience, small businesses can be even worse, because they’re run by the kind of middle management that everybody hates in a big company. Except now they’re the boss and have final say over everything that happens in the company.

balancedchaos ,

My brother works for a small business. They got him in the door by being his buddy, just fun-loving fellow millennials who love to have a great time at work while having plenty of opportunities to move up within the company!

…he hasn’t gotten a raise in three years, and has had myriad issues unfairly pinned on him (legitimately) so he can’t move up in the ranks.

They’re just young boomers doing the same boomer shit, but they’re a little younger and cooler, bro!

EldritchFeminity ,

Yep, worked for a small business as a teen. My experience was that the boss was decent at giving us raises every year, but got pissed when people gave us tips, never had enough people on hand to account for kids going on vacation or getting sick, and, as my buddy would say, “he’s the first person to tell you that there’s more than one way to skin a cat - but his way is the right way.” Dude couldn’t understand why kids on their summer vacation wouldn’t want to work 45 hours a week.

stoly ,

Yes, but there’s a ping pong table and open bar dontchaknow?

stoly ,

My experience agrees with this 100%.

stoly ,

The single most toxic place to work is a startup. The people who make it there tend to be entitled narcissists.

jackalope ,

Start ups are still corps bud.

stoly ,

Some of us gen x saw this in high school but were surrounded by angry boomers who treated us like we were idiots.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

i remember reading similar headlines about millenials… this bullshit is always targeted at young adults, and its always the same superficial “analysis”

Shapillon ,

from a “future of work expert”

bAZtARd ,

A guy from my wife’s age group is a federal government advisor regarding future of work. He has never worked a day in a proper job at a company. Only academics and politics.

Shapillon ,

To me it reeked more of tv expertness than anything else. Usually real academics are tamer in their assertions and have pretty solid conclusions.

sibannac ,

I want to put the effort I give earning money to be put towards bettering my life. All my lemons are being juiced for someone else’s lemonade.

LemmyKnowsBest ,

I agree. And I got extreme with it. because when it comes to making sure all the money we earn goes to ourselves and to our own betterment, the biggest obstacle in the way is the egregious cost of housing. In order to get on top of that hurdle, we either have to become part of the real estate industry, or entirely opt out of it. Well I entirely opted out of it.

VanLife. Yup I’ve been doing van life for the last 3 years. Complete with Solar panels, plumbing, climate control, bedroom, kitchen, storage space. I am in my van right now in one of my membership gym’s parking lot. Every dime I earn goes to me and to whatever I choose, NOT to the extortionate housing industry.

meep_launcher ,

I’ve lost all trust in employers. From large corporations to non-profits to mom and pop to tech startups- I’ve been in it all and I learned businesses do 2 things to their employees:

  1. They lie to you
  2. They underpay you

I’m now freelance musician and teacher and I’m on track to make more than any employer paid me. I’m still in debt after having the rug pulled from under me from my last job, but I’m digging my way out on my own. I will never let one person be in control of my income ever again.

fosforus ,

I’m now freelance musician and teacher and I’m on track to make more than any employer paid me.

That’s great! Is there some part of this that you think doesn’t fit into free market capitalism? Seems like you’re living the original american dream there.

ZzyzxRoad ,

Is there some part of this that you think doesn’t fit into free market capitalism?

This might be the most passive aggressive comment I’ve ever read.

The answer of course would be “not working for someone else.”

sailormoon ,
@sailormoon@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/44830202-ce11-4dcb-a70c-ca3fd845c15b.jpegThis you?

LemmyKnowsBest ,

No. There is a classy way to do it. I’m doing it the classy way.

AtariDump ,

Right. Which is why I found this photo:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a14c4ca2-7d2f-48f7-8fb5-2f074bb52df8.jpeg

Sagifurius ,

Yeah no…So every communist either: !) Figures out how to not be a worker and then abandons the thought 2)Actually manages to be in the revolutionary council but may get assassinated later on 3)Never had any motivation at all, writes articles like this.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Bro, stop saying “communist” you are just embarrassing yourself.

Can I put forward a motion that we start treating this cringe McCarthist shit like the edgelord fodder it properly is and make those who use Communist scarecrows the laughingstock they deserve to be ? Like these idiots can’t grasp Market Socialism to save their life and are still high on gas lighting from the 1980’s.

Sagifurius ,

I’m not American or a fan of market socialism, because I understand it perfectly well, not because of a lack of understanding. Socialism always leads to greater restrictions on the person, and you can’t deny that, your cronies literally advocate for it. Take socialized medicine, politicians immediately start passing laws and regulations to restrict your choices in order to keep costs down, and present it as ethical because “we’re all in this together”. Next thing you know, a workers compensation board has reached the level of petty that a carpenter can be fined for wearing a sleeveless shirt in July, a rule passed because of the risk of sunburn to the shoulder. I am not making this up, I was the carpenter.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Oh Baby cakes! I know socialism passes restrictions on people but are you seriously so petty that you blame workers protections nipping you for wearing a light shirt on sunny day as the height of your problems? Courting sunstroke on a worksite isn’t fucking smart.

And I am sorry but if your government is cutting costs to your healthcare you should probably organize because even a good system needs occasional correction. It’s a long fucking way from letting people be swamped with debt to keep their loved ones alive just a little bit longer. I know people in perpetual fear that a spate of unemployment will destroy their long term health because they can’t afford the insurance themselves. No system is perfect but you can whine about it not meeting your standards but private healthcare is only so great as you keep working. You get fucked up at work and all those “choices” you’re so proud of are just gone.

Sagifurius , (edited )

It was an example how fast they can start micromanaging the smallest details, and you knew that. You don’t think a government had time to make rules like that is an issue? You’re intentionally missing the point, they’ve done this to all aspects of society. I want the fucking guns back too, and any semblance of national pride. You organize anything effectively, the current federal government invokes the war measures act and rescinds it immediately as soon as the review process starts, because there was a glaring loophole left in the old legislation, that it doesn’t get reviewed to see if it was necessary, if they quit using the power in time. We literally have zero rights in Canada because of this

Drivebyhaiku , (edited )

… The War Measures Act? The one that was repealed in like the 80’s?

Wait, are you griping about the Emergencies act? The one that requires the sign off of two levels of democraticly elected government Provincial and Federal and a full independantly run inquest every time it is enacted? Ohhhh you’re a Convoy cocksucker! It all makes sense now.

There are exactly two places in the world out of the host of existing democracies that have a constitutional right to firearms with zero public safety checks requiring limitations like licencing and and if you like the US or Guatemala’s gun policy and private healthcare system that much you can just move there instead of ruining this country by trying to turn us into America’s mini-me.

And really? No protections? You really REALLY don’t understand Canadian law at all do you? You know… You could actually read the results of the inquest right? It’s been out for a year.https://web.archive.org/web/…/final-report/

Or maybe you just think even the most soft touch of the protective measures a government makes to protect the welfare of the people and infrastructure key to it’s it’s ability to operate is too harsh ? No wonder you’re so upset, you just can’t handle a democratically elected body telling you that you can’t do absolutely anything you want because you are an entitled whiny baby. Grow up.

Sagifurius ,

So you don’t remember the government claiming it needed a 30 day extension and then suddenly deciding it didn’t need it at all, when the Senate made it clear they were actually going to review whether it was needed? That the two levels you’re talking about? Cause they dodged that you authoritarian clown.

Drivebyhaiku , (edited )

You mean that time the commission heading the report I linked said they wouldn’t have their homework done on time because they still had work to do on the French half of the report to have it ready to got to meet Canada’s national language requirements to have a full bilingual document and then managed to get everything polished off in time with the translation? Yeah they didn’t need two levels of government to rubber stamp a time extension on the report because no one is generally harmed.

Ohhhh no… We’re all gunna fall into ruin because they cared about the longstanding efficacy paperwork… Dumb shit. Don’t believe what your Conservative asswipes try and feed you. They know you won’t bother doing your own fucking homework.

Sagifurius ,

The kangaroo commission that was exactly akin to police investigating themselves after they dodged a risk of real oversight.

Sagifurius ,

cbc.ca/…/emergencies-act-federal-court-1.7091891

Drivebyhaiku ,

What you think this is a gotcha? This is normal process for when a law that has never been enacted before gets used for the first time and gets challenged. This is part of how the system works. Laws are drafted and passed but basically inert until they are used. A law that is never used never has victims or damages. Only once laws are used can their use be challenged if they do not fit their internal rules exactly (because real life is messy and law drafts inexact) then they go under review. If one Justice kicks up a stink it goes to the Supreme court. The Supreme court decides if the laws were correctly followed. News anchors love the red flag stage because it’s prime drama and people gobble up any implications of “government overreach” like it’s proven fact which feeds their suspicions about how they are living under tyranny.

If the Supreme Court does find the government DID overreach then there will be rulings to appease damages. One justice is not the Supreme court. Even if they rule it was an improper use this continues to be a normal exercise of democracy BECAUSE the government will pay and face consequences. It is a ultimately GOOD thing that this is going under review.

The Justice system in Canada is fairly impartial because they are not an elected body but “what is the law” is at heart a philosophy question so not every judge rules the same. That’s why they have a big panel of them for these courts. To ensure that a majority of senior executors of the law conclude fairly.

To be frank this is the normal check to the Government. Those rights you were claiming we don’t have are being defended by this system of internal review with potential consequences FOR THE GOVERNMENT. These are your rights being defended, BUT they have not yet been proven to be violated, basically an alarm has been raised as it should in cases lile this and they have to go figure out if it was a burglar or a cat.

What you people don’t seem to fucking get is that the system has safeguards. They are being used effectivly but all this requires a bunch of people with full time jobs to prepare, debate, deliberate and fine tooth comb everything. It takes time because legal challenges at this level take years to resolve but that doesn’t keep pace with the 24 hour news cycle that wants you stupid, mad and plugged in RIGHT NOW and the Opposition party will use any dirty trick to use your conditioned suspicions to their advantage. You are falling for the grift. You can stay mad and clutch your guns to your chest like a security blanket and wave your flag all day but the system is functioning. This act was in effect only ACTIVE for 10 days of the 90 made possible by the passing of the original permissions. The Government applied the law to their understanding of the draft and accepted the risk of all of this with full knowledge of the legal consequences to the government. Now the courts figure out if the force used was excessive and that will make precedent to limit any future uses of the act.

That’s the system.

Sagifurius ,

It’s not really new legislation. It’s a mildly updated war measures act. Anyways, an actual legal scholar just disagreed with you and the kangaroo commission.

Drivebyhaiku , (edited )

“Mildly”… Uh no. The War measures act conflicted with the Human Rights act and was amended to reflect the civil rights protections. The two do not look even remotely alike.

While I agree the Emergencies Act isn’t “new” legislation because it was drafted 30 years ago I take umbrage with your idea that that is the relevant issue. It sat on the books in mint condition never used for a very long time. It may not be new but the seal is freshly popped.

So.

The government can technically draft any law they want (provided it doesn’t explicitly violate constitutional protections at time of draft) but that it doesn’t mean that the exercise of those laws protect the government from the consequences of using them if the enactment is incorrect or if it violated constitutional rights in the enactment beyond the original scope… A law never used is just legal theory. You can debate it but it was passed and it’s a pain to remove from the books and you usually need to put something in it’s place to do a similar job if it’s there for a “potential” use to defend against something that may or may not happen.

The Emergencies act is in effect brand new in the system because it has only recently effected actual humans and the law can now be applied to evaluate the effect in it’s actual real world use and actual people can be the recipients of compensation for damages.

That “kangaroo Court” is no fucking joke. The government could stand to lose millions of dollars in damages if the door is opened to removing civil case protections… Which is why the Supreme Court is an independent body thay concerns itself with the charge of defending the law. Governments come and go but that’s the oath they take is binding for life or until they retire from the court at age 75.

Elected representatives are not generally experts in law, they are just provided guidance by system appointes experts to protect themselves from potential liability… but those experts are not the Supreme court panel. The justice system is a bunch of people whose life work is the protection and binding law to protect the welfare of the citizens of Canada and the democratic process because they have legitimate enforcement power and perform the duties of being a check to the temporary power of individual administrations.

Sagifurius ,

You aren’t even arguing against the statements made, just blowing irrelevant bullshit.

Drivebyhaiku ,

I see your brain shorted out but your ego is still chugging along. If you can’t see the relevance maybe you should spread some dust bane around that empty head of yours, close up shop and give it a real college try on another day sport.

Sagifurius ,

You don’t even seem to know what in particular I was referring to as being “Kangaroo”.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Enlighten me then.

fosforus ,

If you can live without working, go ahead. If not, you work.

maynarkh ,

I think it’s more of a “do you grind for that promotion or do you do just enough work to not get fired?” question. The system heavily relies on people believing they provide value to society through their work, and the fact that doing your job well is rewarding in itself. I see my whole generation being burnt out of this however.

fosforus , (edited )

I see my whole generation being burnt out of this however.

I see that happening too, but at the same time I’m also witnessing their workload and demands on them being smaller than what it used to be (already at school), and their work conditions being greatly improved compared to previous times. There’s clearly a systemic problem somewhere, as I don’t think whole generations can suddenly be simply worse than previous ones, but at the same time it’s crystal clear that the problem is not “too much work”.

Jonathan Haidt has written about this a few times before[0], and his latest book[1] is coming in a few months. Should be interesting.

[0] www.thecoddling.com

[1] www.amazon.com/…/0593655036

KevonLooney ,

That first book seems like conservative whining about being “shouted down” on college campuses. I think this guy is too young to have experienced the 60s, because college campuses were a lot rowdier then.

His ideas don’t look plausible to me at all. It sounds like he just wants attention.

fosforus , (edited )

His ideas don’t look plausible to me at all. It sounds like he just wants attention.

Perhaps read the book first? I’m sure it’s available from piracy sites if you don’t want him to have your money. Ignoring a thing you disagree with initially is a great way to never improve intellectually.

maynarkh ,

because college campuses were a lot rowdier then

I’m just saying that the university experience of my grandparents’ generation in the 50s included trying to fight off the Soviet 8th Mechanized Army and becoming NYT Man of the Year.

That said, education becoming shittier definitely is a phenomenon across cultures.

ZzyzxRoad ,

I’m also witnessing their workload and demands on them being smaller than what it used to be (already at school), and their work conditions being greatly improved compared to previous times

This is exactly the kind of “back in my day” invalidating, subordinating bs that many workers, not just gen z, are sick of putting up with. No one wants to be talked down to, or to have to put up with constant boomer finger wagging. On the other hand, it’s obvious when people talk like this that they’re unable to accept how much things change, and regardless of age, shows how out of touch they are with what the average worker puts up with.

I’m sure the people (and children) working in factories in the industrial revolution probably had it easier than those who came before them too. Maybe they were spoiled for fighting for an eight hour workday and safety regulations /s

Millennials are some of the first to have to be “always on” with constant emails, and Slack, and companies monitoring their every move on their phones and laptops, and hiring managers scouring their social media before agreeing to hire them, people getting fired for having OF pages, and having to constantly post bs all over LinkedIn just to stay relevant since there’s no way they’ll be able to keep the same job for more than a few years. And that’s just at their main job, nevermind the two other app-based “hustles” they’re forced to have that pay less than minimum wage. Just because the demands are different doesn’t mean they’re any lower, nor any better.

fosforus , (edited )

Millennials are some of the first to have to be “always on” with constant emails, and Slack, and companies monitoring their every move on their phones and laptops,

I totally agree. And in addition to “having to be” always on, we very often also choose to be always on. This is one of the biggest problems of our generation, I think, and I’m not seeing any attempts at fixing it. If anything, we’re trying to make it worse.

maynarkh ,

My experience has been that, at least in education, it’s inefficient work. My parents got to learn more and study less. They were taught stuff my classes just didn’t have time for, while their school days lasted from 8:00 to 14:00, mine went from 7:00 to 15:30. I was bored through most of it.

It’s not “too much work”, it’s “too much make-work”.

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

I wish I could tell somehow, to people, that this is what I did. I chose “nope”. It’s not socially acceptable. Is there a hotline I can call?

catalog3115 ,

What do you mean? There is ofcourse propoganda to work hard for less.

anarchy79 , (edited )
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

No I fight the system from without. And talk about an unpaid, thankless job.

I opted out, the social contract is void, I don’t accept living on the terms proposed, I’m not signing myself over to modern slavery while supporting a system devastating the planet just so some fat fucks can eat burgers all day. I would literally rather live on the street- and I do. Change has to come from people saying “no”. Guess that’s not for everyone, because by the time they get a clue, they’re already knee high in the system and can’t break free from it except at tremendous personal cost. Not everyone is willing to pay it, but I can’t reconcile that with my base conscience and if nobody steps up then we’re fucking doomed.

TCB13 , (edited )
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

And then you’ve the fucktards who say in the WEF and other places that “people have to suffer” in order to be more productive / want to work.

They have seen the legacy of all these broken promises. In the old days and in many parts of the West, they would promise you if you worked for 30 years, you have this defined benefit pension, you have retiree medical care, etc. None of that exists today.

But at the end of the day it was the same fucktards who broke the social contract when it comes to work and benefits.

I’m only as good as the value I’m delivering today, and so these are the terms under which I want to work, and you either meet them or not.'"

That’s the right approach to the job market and I’m not even Gen Z. The current state of things, like expecting people to work multiple jobs, underpaying, firing to then hire at half the rate, constant layoffs, unreasonable demands and managers it’s all bullshit that people can’t stand anymore.

numerous Gen Zers are “quiet quitting” and taking a step back at work because they’re painfully aware that their hard work could essentially amount to nothing.

When a employers and governments “loudly quit” on people’s life’s and expectations that’s what they get.

In one survey last year, 74% of managers said the generation was the most challenging to work with.

How many of those managers are 50+ years old, with all they ever wanted and a sense their hard work payed off?

sandevistan ,

Could amount to nothing

Read between the lines here, article writer 🥲, everything amounts to nothing. Nobody wants their life to pass by unlived

Old people are impossible to talk to, painfully neurotic and stupid and obsessed with collecting clothing and electronics. They have zero compassion. They know the social contract is broken and they keep telling us to make the same decisions as them knowing we will get nothing for it and die

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Old people are impossible to talk to, painfully neurotic and stupid (…) They know the social contract is broken and they keep telling us to make the same decisions as them knowing we will get nothing for it and die

I guess this is the story of Brexit? The UK shouldn’t have allowed people over 50 years old to vote on that referendum, because they aren’t likely so see the effects of the decision and they’re still delusional about a great empire that can stand alone while they watch American TV shows on a TV made in China and a chair designed in Sweden…

sandevistan ,

Well I’m American so maybe I should clarify only 10% of the people here even currently get to grasp the American dream and statistically it’s white people who get to be homeowners and live in the suburbs and be paranoid and rude to everybody including each other.

We are not doing well everything is falling apart infrastructure wise even in wealthy areas. You better be on the Amazon or Microsoft campus etc if you want it kept up.

Brexit is part of a larger pattern too, we’re basically trying to make Europe Asia-exit lol. And in the same way it will benefit Asia long run.

Meanwhile we try to turn you guys into Senegal #2, a source of crude oil to refine, and a market to buy our refined oil! As long as you continue to develop more drilling without refinement it’s the only way. Geopolitical economy 🗺️

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

We are not doing well everything is falling apart infrastructure wise even in wealthy areas.

Just to clarify I’m not American nor British and the situation here is mostly what you describe on that phrase. The European dream died before it even started.

sandevistan ,

Ah makes sense. Another example. We like completely destroyed German manufacturing with these energy prices in the process of trying to sever the region from Russia lol

noobnarski ,

I wouldnt say its the energy prices that are destroying German industry (I am German too), but the lack of innovation and way too much bureaucracy (and no, that doesnt mean we should lower emission standards, etc., but we should simplify processes and remove rules that serve no one).

sandevistan ,

It’s making it pretty non competitive and that makes things harder down the line, it’ll become more apparent bc it’s all about keeping up yeah? Same thing happening in USA, due to financialization of fuckin everything and wnting to export labor to countries we have the upper hand on

Look at the whole TSMC expansion debacle

sandevistan ,

“Old people” is pretty inaccurate but a lot of cool old people can be presumed to be dead as well

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

I guess this is the story of Brexit? The UK shouldn’t have allowed people over 50 years old to vote on that referendum, because they aren’t likely so see the effects of the decision and they’re still delusional about a great empire that can stand alone while they watch American TV shows on a TV made in China and a chair designed in Sweden…

Errrr, so let’s take away the right of people to vote when they hit the age of 50?

LOL, do you think we will be this relevant/irrelevant when we turn 50? Brexit was dumb as fuck but that doesn’t justify stripping away people’s rights.

sandevistan ,

They can’t be serious lol they’re just waffling nonsense

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

And I’m supposed to guess that how? From the /s they didn’t add to the end of their post, or?

sandevistan ,

Oh I wasn’t saying you were dumb, they’re dumb

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

No no, what’s your take on this? lemmy.world/comment/6915894

sandevistan ,

Dumb article that bowlderizes actual labor issues into stale generational politics takes that have been pushed by consultants since the 90s as blandly palatable fodder for this kind of writing.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

That’s fair.

sandevistan ,

The generational politics thing irks me because it’s an example of advertisers openly trying to divide people’s families and yet that gets taken seriously by “muh family values” conservatives.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Go look for stats on the referendum, if it wasn’t for the 50+ years old people the UK would still be in the EU. It’s not about “let’s take away the right of people to vote” it is about “how can we let people take vote for something that wont ever affect them either way?”. I bet there was someone voting to leave that died of old age the next day, should that person have as much voting power as someone who’s on their 30’s and had to live an extra 50 years with the fallout of the decidion?

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. Your right to vote doesn’t change based on how many days you have left to live. By this logic, maybe we should ban everyone with cancer from voting too?

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

doesn’t change

But maybe it should for certain subjects.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Good luck changing the world to the worse. I’m sure you’ll do a stellar job.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Old people are impossible to talk to, painfully neurotic and stupid

Could I ask, how old are you and why do you find it that way? :/ Never had this experience. Maybe my grandpa is a grumpy old fuck but otherwise “old people” are just “people”.

sandevistan ,

Old ppl in the suburbs lol, this only goes for a small subset. I’m reconsidering things after meeting potential inlaws tbqhbbq

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

So you mean, specifically older Americans (?) living in the suburbs?

Also again how old are you? A bit curious.

sandevistan ,

Yep. Early twenties. There are plenty of awesome old people in this country. Shitty paranoid homeowners who wpuld enjoy aprtheid south aftica congregate in suburbs

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

I feel like the coolest old people I have met were Americans who travel.

sandevistan ,

I hear Americans are the worst tourists lol, and the most likely to be there to buy a woman for that matter

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

No, none of the ones I saw in Europe.

sandevistan ,

A lot of the worst behavior is concentrated in regions people go for a discount like Bali Indonesia, India, Mexico, the Philippines, even Japan and SK, pretty much anywhere non European, I’m not surprised to hear you say that, because Euros and the upper class of saudi arabia and SK and aus and canada and US+NATO and europe is all alike in this way

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Funny, reminds me how some Swedish men fly to Thailand to do things they cannot easily/safely do in Sweden, like pay for sex or do drugs.

sandevistan ,

Thailand is a perfect example thanks forgot to mention that.

We also can kind of offer high end “vice services” like gambling and debauchery and whatnot to the elite of gulf states even better if they’re very conservative and we can blackmail the hell out of them afterwards. The elite of the world coming to Las Vegas and Dubai and Thailand and Bali alike I mean

Illuminostro ,

He thinks anyone over 25 is old.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

I feel sad for people who cannot relate to other age groups :(

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

I mean I’m GenX, and I’ve been fired from three different jobs for reasons beyond my control.

The concept of working for one company for your whole career, getting promoted to a high paying position, retiring with a healthy pension simply no longer exists anymore. You can work hard and do everything right, even be in a division that’s making money and you still might lose your job simply because laying off employees looks good to the shareholders.

But it’s all the fault of the young people! You just need to work harder… on your LinkedIn profile because what you do for the company you’re at right now doesn’t matter, it’s what it looks like you do that matters more now.

Ragerist ,
@Ragerist@lemmy.world avatar

The company I work for had record earnings recently and there were high spirits, long praising newsletter from the CEO. Praise for maintaining a very stable production and higher output with fewer people than competitors.

Until our closest competitors reported their earnings. Which were higher, not surprising as they are bigger than us. Then it was doom and gloom

All of a sudden we had to have substantial budget cuts, and couldn’t rehire to fill a position for someone who had left.

Crazy huh, earned a boatload of money, but someone else earned a bit more. So then we have to cut expenses and optimize.

They still had the audacity recently to try to push the company “spirit and mindset” to employees. Something something buzzwords…

They will still discard you as fast as yesteryears iPhone.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Yup it’s all the fault of Jack Welch. He worked at GE and company culture at the time was to be proud of the number of employees they had. Some companies were proud that they never laid anyone off even during the great depression. They proudly took a loss rather than lay off anyone.

So Jack works his way up the ranks of GE which is how things worked back then. He got all the way to the top of this great company that was proud of his employees. And as soon as he was CEO he started laying everyone off. And the stock price of GE soared.

Ever since then that’s what every CEO tries to emulated. The stock market sees the CEO emulating Jack Welch and buy buy buy.

But it’s all short term thinking. Products get worse and worse, nobody give a shit about their job, work doesn’t get done. But just blame the employees and do another layoff.

Jack Welch fucked us all, but very few people even know his name.

CerineArkweaver ,

Behind The Bastards did a series on him. And fuck Jack Welch

assassin_aragorn ,

“We care about you until you start underperforming during a global pandemic because of mental health. Then fuck you”

It’s easy to tell when a company actually is serious about caring about employees. Our executives took $0 bonuses last year so employees could have normal bonuses, and they bought everyone a free turkey for Thanksgiving. Our financials aren’t the best right now, but we still have a 401k match and all our benefits, and they’ve frozen hiring so they don’t have to do layoffs. Our CEO chats with us weekly and takes questions, and he tells us to not worry about the stock price. We do good work, and success will follow, he says.

Anecdotally, I had a serious health issue at the beginning of this year, and my boss told me to take off all the time I needed. I’m still on leave through the rest of the month, no questions asked. My previous company had people like that, but they weren’t supported by HR policies.

I’m still very wary however, because it doesn’t take long at all to get screwed over.

pkill ,

what thinly veiled parochial mentality, isn’t it?

vermyndax ,

I’m GenX, and I spent about ~25 years in the corporate racket before I realized that they don’t give a fuck. I’m all about living now as well, and I encourage others to do the same.

assassin_aragorn ,

The pandemic was a big mask off moment for corpos.

Delta_V ,

Also, nobody wants to hire anymore.

If employers get to say it when they can’t fill poverty wage positions, the rest of us get to say it when employers fail to offer 7 figure salaries.

bufalo1973 ,
@bufalo1973@lemmy.ml avatar

Welcome to South Europe. We know work is what pays the bills, only that. Live is everything else.

tigerjerusalem ,

It reeks of those headlines saying that millenials/gen zs are “losing interest in buying cars and houses”.

Motherfucker, interest has nothing to do with it. We can’t afford it!

AngryCommieKender ,

Well interest does come into it. Y’all can’t afford the interest payments on the loans you’d need. Can’t even find a decently priced used car.

tigerjerusalem ,

Oooh, cool word play! I like it.

Also, I find it funny* that we somehow can afford rent but are not qualified to pay a mortgage with monthly payments that costs the same.

*enraging

chrizzowski ,

I think this is a huge part of the problem. Rental property owners are just a liability buffer for the banks. There should be mortgages at a 1% down payment for first time buyers with a proven track record of making rent payments on time. Maybe the rates are a little higher, with the extra interest giving the banks motivation for taking on the extra risk. Then after the first term the owner can renew with a normal rate.

Doesn’t help with the demand issue, but maybe all the rentals will flood the market after nobody is being punished for not having $100k laying around because they’re busy paying someone else’s carrying costs.

Mango ,

We can afford rent?

GnomeKat ,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The article talks about millenials not being able to afford houses…

tigerjerusalem ,

I know… I read about it on other sources too and mixed the headlines too. Sorry for the confusion.

DillyDaily ,

Right, like the majority of my millennial friends also work to live, not live to work, it’s just that living is so damn expensive that after we’re done working enough to pay rent, there’s not many hours left in the week to live.

I’m incredibly privileged. I have no debt, no loans, and housemates to split bills with. I only do 20 hours of paid work per week, and my hourly rate is pretty damn decent for my industry (I’m a coordinator in a community centre, I make $32AUD an hour).

I enjoy my work life balance and I wouldn’t have it any other way, I have time to care for my chronic illness properly, and time for friends, and family, and to volunteer in my community for passion projects that could never in a million years pay the bills.

But being in your mid thirties and splitting rent with other people is tough, I fortunately don’t want marriage or kids, but I can’t see how I’d make it work if I did, babies can’t help me split the rent, and most housemates don’t want to live with a crying baby that isn’t theirs.

So when my friend leaves his fun job for a grind company we know sucks our your soul, but it pays 8x as much and it’s “just for 2 years until the deposit is saved for and the baby is born” then it’s completely understandable why the next 24 months of my friends life is consumed with work. Because he needs that work now, so that he can live later.

But 2 years becomes 5 years becomes 10 years because first it’s the GFC, then it’s the housing bubble, then it’s the mini recession, then it’s covid, now it’s whatever the fuck times were living in.

And at some point for millennials (and many younger Gen X’ers) living became surviving and we work to survive, we don’t even know what thriving looks like.

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

I’m a milennial. I live in a country where we try not to work ourselves to death. Even my employer encourages an active separation between work and personal life. I do not remember what my monthly or yearly salary is, but I am able to have a good personal life with alot of spare time and money for my hobbies.

When I talk to my friends over the pond to the west, I’m always shocked about what I hear. 40+ hour workweeks, hardly any time off from work, etc. I also have a couple of friends in Japan, and their stories are actually worse compared to across the western pond.

Me and my girlfriend rent, which is somewhat unheard of around here. After the war, the economy was based on owning your own home. I made a few stupid choices when I was in my 20s, and I’m paying for them now by renting. The prices of homes are skyrocketing, so that every time I save some money, the prices increase and I have to save more to get a loan. Tough luck, but that’s the way it is. I do not want to get a side hustle just to kill my self getting enough money to buy my home.

DigitalFrank ,

How does one become a “future-of-work expert?” If I decided to become one, what training would I need?

bratosch ,

Work, but in the future. Duuhh

sigh ,
@sigh@lemmy.world avatar

I’ll do it later

OneWomanCreamTeam ,
@OneWomanCreamTeam@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Optimistic: an economist who specializes in speculation about the labor market Pessimistic: just some person who said some shit

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