Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x07 "Those Old Scientists"

LoglineAn accident while investigating a time portal sends Ensigns Beckett Mariner and Bradward Boimler through time from the 24th century, and Captain Pike and his crew must get them back where they belong before they can alter the timeline.

Written by Kathryn Lyn & Bill Wolkoff

Directed by Jonathan Frakes

theinspectorst ,
@theinspectorst@kbin.social avatar

I'm seeing lots of positivity here, so I'll be the boring one. I enjoyed it but they didn't quite land it for me. Things that would have been funny in an out-and-out sitcom felt wrong in the context of a 'serious' Trek show. For example, Mariner and Boimler having a really inappropriate discussion about how hot Spock was, while Spock was right there, during a senior staff meeting - it was a bit too jarring for me. You kind of got the feeling the 23rd century officers were all left wondering why 24th century Starfleet is so unprofessional. I think they got this the wrong way round by making it a SNW episode instead of a Lower Decks episode.

Separately though, given that we know Spock and Chapel don't make it, I like that in the two episodes since they got together they have hinted at two separate reasons why they might split up: first the possiblity it's triggered by them having different attitudes to reporting the relationship to Starfleet, and now Chapel's Boimler-induced insecurities about whether she might hold Spock back from doing something great with his life.

psychothumbs ,

In reality it’s just a factor of the difference between a comedic cartoon and live action, but I sort of love the idea of it being an actual cultural difference between the two timelines, with people in the even more utopian lower decks era having gotten looser and wackier.

HardlightCereal ,

The Cerritos is also canonically the silliest ship in Starfleet. Freeman is always struggling to be taken seriously

MaxHardwood ,

I think Mariner was just in true form. Nonchalant and flippant. The cultural differences are huge especially the technology they’ve deployed 130 years since the NCC-1701. The way Mariner casually suggests just making more of the element like it’s getting a glass of water from the replicator and Boimler gives her a hard side-eye gives you an idea just how different their day to day lives are. Boimler was able to reconfigure the ship and navigate it on his own because the Enterprise is just so archaic by comparison to the Cerritos.

triktrek ,

You kind of got the feeling the 23rd century officers were all left wondering why 24th century Starfleet is so unprofessional

I don’t think it’s the difference between 23rd vs 24th century officers, but more a difference between upper deck senior officers and lower decks ensigns.

HardlightCereal ,

Also the difference between the flagship of Starfleet and the bottom of the barrel California class. Shaxs would never get away with screaming about the warp core all the time on the Enterprise, and Freeman is constantly struggling to make the Cerritos look like a serious ship to the rest of Starfleet

ki77erb ,

So many people were ragging on this idea. I think the episode firmly shut them up. This was top notch Trek! Fantastic from start to finish. I want more! Now they’re complaining about the upcoming musical episode? Haters gonna hate I guess.

Hypersapien ,

I’m one of the people who was ragging on the idea and I was absolutely fucking right.

And yes, I’m ragging on the idea of the musical episode, too.

ki77erb ,

Well I guess not everyone is going to like every episode, or every show for that matter and that’s ok. I can’t stand Discovery. I gave up somewhere in season 2. Just couldn’t take it anymore.

michaelgemar ,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@ki77erb @startrek Personally, I find SNW to be, by far, the best Trek since DS9.

The most recent episode was broad, but I still found it delightful.

ki77erb ,

Same! Great cast and great writing.

lrawsignal ,
@lrawsignal@mas.to avatar

@ki77erb @michaelgemar
I love the cast. But I love the cast of Discovery too. The writing has been better in SNW than disco, but there's still moments of awkward dialogue that feels wrong. Not as bad as discovery but still has those moments that pull me out of it.
I say that, but I also loved the hell out of the SNWxLD episode, but I loved it because I love both shows for different reasons I suppose. It's complicated.

GratefullyGodless ,
@GratefullyGodless@lemmy.world avatar

Well, you lasted wit Discovery longer than I did. I saw the first episode and the butchered Klingons, and that was as far as I made it into the series.

polymorphist_neuroid ,

I ended up being ok with the weirdly retconned Klingons - after all, Next Generation “butchered” the Klingons from TOS. The thing that kept me with Disco until season 4 was Michelle Yeoh’s character, because I fucking love her. That said, it does not really get much better than S1, and I gave up after S3.

NuPNuA ,

That was amazing, on par with Trials and Tribble-ations for a crossover. Loved how well they integrated Boimler and Mariner without losing any of the character as LD has presented them.

SpacedBear ,

Anyone else see Boimler do the Boim-walk to get away from Una the second time with Mariner there? I did not realize human hips could move like that.

teft ,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

Yes! I did the Dicaprio point at my tv when he started speedwalking.

Cantstopthesignal ,
@Cantstopthesignal@lemmynsfw.com avatar

My wife was crying she was laughing so hard from that. It was perfect.

lagomorphlecture ,

Cracked me up, I laughed so hard at that part.

triktrek ,

Or even just the way he was running to catch up with Mariner.

batmaniam ,

They NAILED it. They, somehow, took the loving but self aware fan service of lower decks and jammed it into SNW which has been the most consistent reboot back to the core of this series. This was absolutely some of the best show writing I’ve seen in a very long time.

ki77erb ,

It really was perfectly done. I loved every minute of it.

guru_meditation ,

This 1000%

HardlightCereal ,

I actually think Lower Decks is closer to the core of Star Trek than SNW. I mean, you couldn’t do a “the enterprise got pregnant” episode in SNW

SNW has been continually frustrating me by almost being great trek but continually falling short. Like, that prime directive episode on the forgetting planet was great, right up until the captain decided to flagrantly ignore the prime directive and destroy a culture’s individuality

Corgana ,
@Corgana@startrek.website avatar

Loved having a Sunday morning cartoon 🖖

This episode was way better than it needed to be. I was genuinely moved seeing Una’s reaction to the knowledge of her being the “poster girl”, as well as the reaction of the Orion captain at the end.

Seeing Boimler and Mariner in this context really drives home how much Lower Decks is essentially “what if Trekkies could serve in Star Fleet” and it worked so well!

Hogger85b ,

Especially the poster girl part being how she (and her lawyer) presented her self in the trial in ep2

Corgana ,
@Corgana@startrek.website avatar

Yes exactly! To Boimler it was a major and inspiring story out of history, but to Una it was a personal moment that happened only recently. Imagine being told something you did that you thought was relatively minor (and over) would inspire generations of people in the years to come. Her reaction was perfect.

astroturds ,

What a nice surprise after work on a Sunday!

The episode was bloody tremendous! I knew they were going to appear in SNW but somehow I didn’t think it was going to be cartoon and live action together, I thought they would just be sucked into the past and we’d see the real actors. The intro and outro were both great. It was just brilliant all round.

YoBuckStopsHere ,
@YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

This is my all-time favorite episode of Star Trek. Wow, wow, wow … wow.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

https://media.tenor.com/IsmD4kAOwhAAAAAC/screen-rant-wow.gif

Continuumguy ,

Thoughts and observations as I watched over at the “other place”, special Saturday night/early Sunday morning edition:

  • AHHHHH, WE’RE DOING THIS ON A SATURDAY!
  • AHHHHH, WE’RE GETTING THE CROSSOVER!
  • AHHHHH, A CROSSOVER BETWEEN A CARTOON COMEDY AND A LIVE ACTION DRAMA!
  • AHHHHH, IN GENERAL!
  • First off, that they have “Those Old Scientists” as the title is (chef’s kiss).
  • Previously: Nyota had a really bad day, La’An got a bad case of Kirk hotness, and Chapel/Spock had a bad case of hotness for each other
  • OH GOD WE’RE STARTING ANIMATED
  • "Numero Una"
  • Tendi would like to remind you all that the Orions have a rich and varied history.
  • "You guys look… very realistic."
  • AHHHH, ANIMATED OPENING CREDITS!
  • Hahaha, the thing that eats the Ceritos Nacelle!
  • AHHHH, THE KOALA AT THE END OF THE CREDITS! WHY IS IT SMILING, WHAT DOES IT KNOW!?!?
  • “But flipping it open is the best part”
  • “Computer, end program.”
  • “Worf’s honor.” DANGIT!
  • I wonder if Frakes showed Quaid how to properly do a Riker maneuver
  • "You just… laughed."
  • Ah, we’re tying in with what Tendi said.
  • Boimler is a toddler knocking over furniture.
  • "We have jetpacks now"
  • Pike’s birthday is a holiday… CRAP!
  • Boimler freaking out over the fact he made Spock laugh is such a Boimler thing.
  • Hey, a reference to his sehlat!
  • I like how they are using this episode to also move the other plotlines forward.
  • HE MENTIONED PIKE’S REALLY GREAT HAIR
  • Triticale, as opposed to Quadritriticale.
  • I totally saw Mariner coming.
  • Dystopian San Francisco!
  • “Have you noticed their references are weirdly specific?”
  • “Hot Spock agrees with me”
  • "It’s a poster that is pinned up"
  • I feel like Tawny herself probably demanded a scene with Uhura
  • Ah, there’s the Boimler scream!
  • “Holy Q!”
  • “They had a Trelane thing going on.”
  • “He had to contour the hell out of the jawline”
  • “Oh, I already know.” Hahaha, they finally got out-future knowledged.
  • Oh god, are they going to steal a piece of an NX?
  • Oh, just a piece of it in the Enterprise.
  • The “Mistress of the Winter Constellations” strikes again!
  • Of course Ransom calls Una the hottest first officer in starfleet history.
  • Hahaha, 2D animation Enterprise crew because they are drunk!
  • All-time classic.
batmaniam ,

“WHAT THE HELL IS IN THIS THING!”

Vittelius ,

Oh, according to the entertainment weekly article Tawny absolutely demanded a scene with Uhura (or at least pitched it to the writers)

teft ,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

Of course Ransom calls Una the hottest first officer in starfleet history.

It’s because they are married in real life. Jerry O’Connell and Rebecca Romijn that is, not Ransom and Numero Una.

michaelgemar ,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@teft @startrek That is hilarious!

triktrek ,

Oh I didn’t know that. Is there some (real life) Star Trek connection that brought them together or is it just some coincidence that they both are on Star Trek?

Captain_Ender ,

Honestly if there wasn't a mention of Pike's Peak why are we even here?

theothersparrow ,
@theothersparrow@lemmy.one avatar

But seriously what does the Koala know can we even handle such knowledge

Awa ,
@Awa@lemmy.world avatar

Definitely one of the most enjoyable episodes of any modern Star Trek episodes if not the best. Love the calls back to the other shows and Star Trek history. I like how the Lower Decks actors played their human characters just as skillfully as they voice them. I loved their connections with the SNW crew. Just beautifully well written. Feels like that it made up for what seemed to be lacking in the previous episode.

hivemind ,

Frakes has directed two Orville episodes (so far), and arguably brought his experience over to SNW, as Boims and Mariner were fan[boy|girl]ing about, it had serious “Orville” vibes to it. I don’t think they could have picked a better director.

The bit where Ortegas and Uhura were gushing about the NX-01 crew and suddenly realizing that’s why their guests were gushing was priceless.

“What would come after the dash?”

And both Jack and Tawny crushed it as the live action versions of their characters. (Both were over-the-top, and that was the point).

I wonder if that “Riker!” Gag was improvised and if so, how long it had Frakes (and/or the crew) laughing.

The LD-style intro was chefs kiss perfect. The coda was, likewise, a perfect capstone.

Awa ,
@Awa@lemmy.world avatar

I didn’t realize Frakes directed two of the Orville episodes, but makes a lot of sense. He did an amazing job bringing the charm of The Orville into this episode. RE: the intro…YES!!! I was about to skip it, but so happy I watched it. I loved the space-monster sucking on the ship! It is my favorite part of the LD intro, so happy to see it here.

Jacko ,

Watch the Ready Room episode! The Riker was improvised!

Prouvaire ,

The danger with these "very special fun episodes" is that they can be confined to being just that. But what elevated this episode is how it used the time travel/crossover conceit to foreshadow, progress and pay off SNW character arcs, including Chapel and Spock's ultimately doomed relationship (something that I've previously said could be incredibly poignant, if handled right), Number One's legacy, and the way Pike confronts his fate. I hope the musical episode does the same.

Continuumguy ,

They also tied in to Tendi’s story on LD (her constant reminding to people that Orions have a culture far beyond pirating), even though we didn’t see her in Live Action.

eva_sieve ,

Are Orions now the designated species for calling out how essentialized Star Trek aliens tend to be? Because we have D’vana Tendi, the somewhat obscure Ensign Harral from Discovery, and now the crew of the D’var. You can argue the last one’s just an extension of Tendi’s character arc, but still, that’s three series that have touched on this.

MikeyMongol ,
@MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com avatar

TBH I think TNG did this very well with the Klingons (depending on who was writing the episode, of course). Like, some Klingons were Real Klingons™ but many others only gave lip service to those ideals and were actually as sneaky and cowardly as any other race. I think a lot of Worf’s inner conflict came from realizing and processing that fact.

Manabi ,
@Manabi@startrek.website avatar

And on the extreme end of that was the Duras family being more like the stereotypical Romulan (and even allying with them against their own people) than a Real Klingon™. It was disgusting how they managed to keep their house throughout the series, even though they were everything a Klingon wasn’t supposed to be.

MikeyMongol ,
@MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com avatar

The viewer naturally sympathizes with Worf and adopts his view of Klingon culture, but remember that he was raised by humans and most of his knowledge of Klingon culture came from very early childhood and books. Imagine a human child raised by another species whose knowledge of Human culture came from fairy tales and like Arthurian stories. He’d come to earth and be outraged that everyone isn’t following some virtuous code of chivalry. A politician broke his word? DUEL TO THE DEATH! That’s Worf.

HardlightCereal ,

There’s also the Orion on DS9 who likes to talk big game about being a pirate, but he’s actually from Cincinnati and has never pirated anything in his life

YoBuckStopsHere ,
@YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

The hidden line in the episode is that the crew knows they end up as historical icons of Starfleet and thus the line ‘I pretended to be somebody I wanted to be until finally I became that person. Or he became me.’ this applies to the crew now. It allows them to be more confident in their decisions and become the icons they are meant to be. This episode likely has one of the largest impacts on the character direction of the crew going forward.

UESPA_Sputnik ,
@UESPA_Sputnik@lemmy.world avatar

Fun episode. I lost track of all the references but I’m particularly delighted that they brought up the NX-01 and her crew, and that the NCC-1701 crew (what even comes after the dash?) is gushing over them, like we all are gushing over all the different Trek crews.

Voyager763 ,

I deeply appreciated seeing some on-screen Enterprise love, because I feel like Enterprise gets a bum wrap.

NuPNuA ,

To be fair, since it’s been on it got an Easter egg reference in the Kelvin-verse and has been mentioned or referenced in most of the new shows from S1 of Dis on. Not only did they name drop Archer in that, they actually expanded on the MU episodes of Ent.

Emperor_Cartagia ,

And let’s not forget the NX-01 herself shows up onscreen in Picard Season 3.

NuPNuA ,

Yep, I thought they may resuse the Star Ship museum asset from Pic then realised it probably didn’t exist yet on SNW era.

Acid ,
@Acid@startrek.website avatar

This episode is one of the best episodes in the modern era of Trek, it’s lighthearted it’s funny it celebrates Trek and it’s done so tastefully that I genuinely have nothing bad to say about it. It reminds me of Trials and Tribble-ations.

Plus that line at the end where they tell Una ad astra per aspera and that’s why boimler joined Starfleet is just the right kind of emotions.

Honestly, they smashed it in this episode and ofc the 2d animated intro was chefs kiss.

YoBuckStopsHere ,
@YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

This episode is one of the best episodes in the modern era of Trek, it’s lighthearted it’s funny it celebrates Trek and it’s done so tastefully that I genuinely have nothing bad to say about it. It reminds me of Trials and Tribble-ations.

Alex Kurtzman must have hated this episode, it is the exact opposite of what he wanted to do with Trek. Also why fans love it, because Alex was always wrong about what Trek is about and why it matters to the fans.

concrete_baby ,

Why is it the exact opposite of what Alex Kurtzman wants to do?

YoBuckStopsHere ,
@YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

Kurtzman wanted a serious dark tone that excluded humor, excluded science, and promoted how progressive the future would be. He selected a largely female-diverse cast and wrote that all white males would be stupid or evil in the script. Then he proceeded to change the look and style of Trek away from the established canon to whatever garbage he came up with. Maybe if the writing was better it could have worked but that writing was bad, very very bad. This was the age of discovery in Trek where Star Fleet was full of brave heroes. He wrote his characters to be weak, angry, or overly emotional. The cast of Strange New Worlds feels like Star Fleet, they can have emotions but they are written to understand the dangers they are in are part of why they are doing what they do. Exploration is dangerous, you need to have a backbone to survive it.

concrete_baby ,

I disagree. Trek has always been progressive, and that’s what the whole series is about: infinite diversity in infinite combinations. TOS had Chekov, a Russian on the bridge in an American show during the Cold War era. It had Uhura, a Black woman on the bridge at the age of segregation and institutional racism. It had Sulu, a Japanese man when Japanese American families were wrongly incarcerated only years ago in WWII. The founders of the Federation were from four different species and set aside differences to build a better union. It’s the bastion of progressivism, and a rebuke to conservatism and isolationism.

Let’s move on to the Berman era. The Federation is now what people like Tasha Yar look up to, after spending her childhood escaping rape gangs. What does the Federation stand for? Equality. We have Doctor and Data trying to be recognized as equals to sentient beings. We have Tasha Yar, a woman engineer, Kathryn Janeway, a woman captain, Kira Nerys, a woman Bajoran leader on DS9. Berman and his colleagues never seriously considered a man playing the captain of the Voyager. They also made women characters complex and gave us Seven of Nine and Kai Winn, who both have their own motivations and personal history that shape their characters. And who can forget the Sisko as the first Black captain leading a series and his realistic relationship with Jake?

Kurtzman is also the executive producer on SNW, so I’m not sure what you’re on about. Kurtzman carried on the Roddenberry vision of filling leading Trek roles with a diverse cast, SNW, LOW, PRO, and DIS included.

all white males would be stupid or evil in the script

I have no idea where you got that from. Is Stamets evil? Is Sarek evil? Is SNW Pike evil? Is Chief Kyle evil? Well, yes, very evil. The only evil white male character I can think of is mirror Lorca.

This was the age of discovery in Trek where Star Fleet was full of brave heroes. He wrote his characters to be weak, angry, or overly emotional.

I feel like you’re idolizing “heroes” as demigods in real life, much like how Christopher Columbus was celebrated, when in reality he committed genocide and enslaved generations of Native Americans. Heroes in Earth’s age of discovery were also humans. They had emotions, they had feelings, they cried, they had PTSD, they were angry, and some of them were weak. Some of them had egos that cost their lives (see Robert Scott’s expedition to the South Pole.)

Zpiritual ,

I feel like the cast isn’t the issue and that it’s more about what you do with the cast that’s been a bit underwhelming at times. And he’s right about the lack of goofyness in modern trek and I’m glad it’s back in force with this season!

mplewis ,
@mplewis@lemmy.globe.pub avatar

Exploration is dangerous. That’s why you need a team you trust to give you the diverse perspective you need to survive it.

Acid ,
@Acid@startrek.website avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    YoBuckStopsHere ,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, and look at those characters. Unless the character is gay, they are written to be negative or evil.

    Acid ,
    @Acid@startrek.website avatar

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    YoBuckStopsHere ,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    He is gay which separates him.

    ScrivenerX ,

    excluded humor, excluded science,

    I seem to remember the first instance of “fuck” in star trek being a humorous scene about science.

    promoted how progressive the future would be.

    Like every other star trek?

    I’m not a huge Disco fan. I think it doesn’t stand up and is way too focused on how everyone feels, but complaining about “oh no! SJWs!” Is just a roundabout way of saying you are racist/sexist. I think there are some good ideas in Disco but moving away from the episodic formula hurt the show. SNW does much of the same stuff as Disco, but is plot driven not character driven, which is fundamental difference between Disco and other Trek. Picard went the same way as Disco and suffered for it.

    I hope that the success of SNW and LD help them realize what parts of the formula work and what doesn’t.

    Taleya ,

    Oh hon, your entire arse is showing

    ValueSubtracted OP Mod ,
    @ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

    This is a good time to remind the group that we have zero tolerance for bigotry.

    williams_482 ,
    @williams_482@startrek.website avatar

    Poor Christine Chapel! Now she knows what the audience has always known: her relationship with Spock is ultimately doomed. Plus a delightful mix of guilt and fear that she could unwittingly cause Spock to never measure up to the vague but crucial future that Boimler mentioned to her in the turbolift, simply by trying to make the two of them happy.

    That suuuuuucks.

    hmantegazzi ,
    @hmantegazzi@startrek.website avatar

    I really didn’t expected the emotional moments, but they were all done so well

    concrete_baby ,

    So Boimler inadvertently causes Nurse Chapel to end her relationship with Spock and encourage him to go back to T’Pring?

    Jestersage ,

    Predestination paradox. In fact the entire thing is likely a predestinaiton paradox. “Activated 120 years ago”, which is caused by the imager at “now”; the reason why the two can go back home is because Tendi told them about the version according to Orion and mentioned her great-grandma being the discoverer, which is what let the past Orion to recognize the truth and probably themselves assigned it to Tendi’s great-grandma?

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    Tendi just said her great-grandmother was on the ship that discovered it, not that she was the discoverer.

    polymorphist_neuroid ,

    …this little bit of cooperation between the Federation and the Orions probably improves their relationship a bit, which will eventually lead to Orions joining the Federation, which is how Tendi is friends with Boimler in the first place, which is how Boimler knows that not all Orions are pirates which is why Pike tones down his hostile response which gets them to a deal with the Orions which leads to…

    polymorphist_neuroid ,

    OMG! They managed to make that scene just so hilarious and poignant at the same time. Watching her facial expressions as she realizes what Boimler is telling her made me want to just scream at him to shut the fuck up and slap the shit out of him…but he’s just being dear sweet clueless Boimey. :(

    Theme-wise, I think they’re setting up a comparison between Pike knowing his doom and Christine/Spock knowing their relationship is doomed. Knowing that, what do you do in the meantime?

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • [email protected]
  • All magazines
    •