Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x07 "Those Old Scientists"

LoglineAn accident while investigating a time portal sends Ensigns Beckett Mariner and Bradward Boimler through time from the 24th century, and Captain Pike and his crew must get them back where they belong before they can alter the timeline.

Written by Kathryn Lyn & Bill Wolkoff

Directed by Jonathan Frakes

Hogger85b ,

I wonder how many times crew get blackout/asleep and for a joke their mates put them in the holodeck for "computer end programme" to be a wake up meme.

batmaniam ,

They NAILED it. They, somehow, took the loving but self aware fan service of lower decks and jammed it into SNW which has been the most consistent reboot back to the core of this series. This was absolutely some of the best show writing I’ve seen in a very long time.

ki77erb ,

It really was perfectly done. I loved every minute of it.

guru_meditation ,

This 1000%

HardlightCereal ,

I actually think Lower Decks is closer to the core of Star Trek than SNW. I mean, you couldn’t do a “the enterprise got pregnant” episode in SNW

SNW has been continually frustrating me by almost being great trek but continually falling short. Like, that prime directive episode on the forgetting planet was great, right up until the captain decided to flagrantly ignore the prime directive and destroy a culture’s individuality

theinspectorst ,
@theinspectorst@kbin.social avatar

I'm seeing lots of positivity here, so I'll be the boring one. I enjoyed it but they didn't quite land it for me. Things that would have been funny in an out-and-out sitcom felt wrong in the context of a 'serious' Trek show. For example, Mariner and Boimler having a really inappropriate discussion about how hot Spock was, while Spock was right there, during a senior staff meeting - it was a bit too jarring for me. You kind of got the feeling the 23rd century officers were all left wondering why 24th century Starfleet is so unprofessional. I think they got this the wrong way round by making it a SNW episode instead of a Lower Decks episode.

Separately though, given that we know Spock and Chapel don't make it, I like that in the two episodes since they got together they have hinted at two separate reasons why they might split up: first the possiblity it's triggered by them having different attitudes to reporting the relationship to Starfleet, and now Chapel's Boimler-induced insecurities about whether she might hold Spock back from doing something great with his life.

psychothumbs ,

In reality it’s just a factor of the difference between a comedic cartoon and live action, but I sort of love the idea of it being an actual cultural difference between the two timelines, with people in the even more utopian lower decks era having gotten looser and wackier.

HardlightCereal ,

The Cerritos is also canonically the silliest ship in Starfleet. Freeman is always struggling to be taken seriously

MaxHardwood ,

I think Mariner was just in true form. Nonchalant and flippant. The cultural differences are huge especially the technology they’ve deployed 130 years since the NCC-1701. The way Mariner casually suggests just making more of the element like it’s getting a glass of water from the replicator and Boimler gives her a hard side-eye gives you an idea just how different their day to day lives are. Boimler was able to reconfigure the ship and navigate it on his own because the Enterprise is just so archaic by comparison to the Cerritos.

triktrek ,

You kind of got the feeling the 23rd century officers were all left wondering why 24th century Starfleet is so unprofessional

I don’t think it’s the difference between 23rd vs 24th century officers, but more a difference between upper deck senior officers and lower decks ensigns.

HardlightCereal ,

Also the difference between the flagship of Starfleet and the bottom of the barrel California class. Shaxs would never get away with screaming about the warp core all the time on the Enterprise, and Freeman is constantly struggling to make the Cerritos look like a serious ship to the rest of Starfleet

Prouvaire ,

The danger with these "very special fun episodes" is that they can be confined to being just that. But what elevated this episode is how it used the time travel/crossover conceit to foreshadow, progress and pay off SNW character arcs, including Chapel and Spock's ultimately doomed relationship (something that I've previously said could be incredibly poignant, if handled right), Number One's legacy, and the way Pike confronts his fate. I hope the musical episode does the same.

Continuumguy ,

They also tied in to Tendi’s story on LD (her constant reminding to people that Orions have a culture far beyond pirating), even though we didn’t see her in Live Action.

eva_sieve ,

Are Orions now the designated species for calling out how essentialized Star Trek aliens tend to be? Because we have D’vana Tendi, the somewhat obscure Ensign Harral from Discovery, and now the crew of the D’var. You can argue the last one’s just an extension of Tendi’s character arc, but still, that’s three series that have touched on this.

MikeyMongol ,
@MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com avatar

TBH I think TNG did this very well with the Klingons (depending on who was writing the episode, of course). Like, some Klingons were Real Klingons™ but many others only gave lip service to those ideals and were actually as sneaky and cowardly as any other race. I think a lot of Worf’s inner conflict came from realizing and processing that fact.

Manabi ,
@Manabi@startrek.website avatar

And on the extreme end of that was the Duras family being more like the stereotypical Romulan (and even allying with them against their own people) than a Real Klingon™. It was disgusting how they managed to keep their house throughout the series, even though they were everything a Klingon wasn’t supposed to be.

MikeyMongol ,
@MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com avatar

The viewer naturally sympathizes with Worf and adopts his view of Klingon culture, but remember that he was raised by humans and most of his knowledge of Klingon culture came from very early childhood and books. Imagine a human child raised by another species whose knowledge of Human culture came from fairy tales and like Arthurian stories. He’d come to earth and be outraged that everyone isn’t following some virtuous code of chivalry. A politician broke his word? DUEL TO THE DEATH! That’s Worf.

HardlightCereal ,

There’s also the Orion on DS9 who likes to talk big game about being a pirate, but he’s actually from Cincinnati and has never pirated anything in his life

YoBuckStopsHere ,
@YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

The hidden line in the episode is that the crew knows they end up as historical icons of Starfleet and thus the line ‘I pretended to be somebody I wanted to be until finally I became that person. Or he became me.’ this applies to the crew now. It allows them to be more confident in their decisions and become the icons they are meant to be. This episode likely has one of the largest impacts on the character direction of the crew going forward.

polymorphist_neuroid ,

I’m still giddy about this episode. Possibly the best thing I’ve ever seen.

One thing I noticed particularly in this episode is how respectful both SNW and LD are of canon and fandom in general - the bit about not all Orions being pirates, for example. I know it originates w/Tendi from Lower Decks, but just in the context of this episode they take the one-dimensional nature of the Orions from TOS, poke a little fun at it, but then make it about the bias that the Federation/Star Fleet has against a culture they really don’t understand. The SNW writers effortlessly take what could be considered a flaw or one-dimensional writing from TOS and actually use it to flesh out the ST universe, all while telling a great story.

HardlightCereal ,

Some Orions haven’t been pirates for 5 years!

zpm ,
@zpm@lemmy.world avatar

I enjoyed it, fun and different and the ending did make me laugh with Spock’s arm. I found I was less invested in the story as I was focused on the character interactions. Overall, I’m fine with it and it didn’t have to be anything that is not trying to be.

triktrek ,

I didn’t quite get the reference with Spock’s arm. Was this supposed to reference something in previous Trek?

zpm ,
@zpm@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t think so, I think it’s just a joke about him doing things as a cartoon version he couldn’t do in real life, and also him tripping balls.

Continuumguy ,

Thoughts and observations as I watched over at the “other place”, special Saturday night/early Sunday morning edition:

  • AHHHHH, WE’RE DOING THIS ON A SATURDAY!
  • AHHHHH, WE’RE GETTING THE CROSSOVER!
  • AHHHHH, A CROSSOVER BETWEEN A CARTOON COMEDY AND A LIVE ACTION DRAMA!
  • AHHHHH, IN GENERAL!
  • First off, that they have “Those Old Scientists” as the title is (chef’s kiss).
  • Previously: Nyota had a really bad day, La’An got a bad case of Kirk hotness, and Chapel/Spock had a bad case of hotness for each other
  • OH GOD WE’RE STARTING ANIMATED
  • "Numero Una"
  • Tendi would like to remind you all that the Orions have a rich and varied history.
  • "You guys look… very realistic."
  • AHHHH, ANIMATED OPENING CREDITS!
  • Hahaha, the thing that eats the Ceritos Nacelle!
  • AHHHH, THE KOALA AT THE END OF THE CREDITS! WHY IS IT SMILING, WHAT DOES IT KNOW!?!?
  • “But flipping it open is the best part”
  • “Computer, end program.”
  • “Worf’s honor.” DANGIT!
  • I wonder if Frakes showed Quaid how to properly do a Riker maneuver
  • "You just… laughed."
  • Ah, we’re tying in with what Tendi said.
  • Boimler is a toddler knocking over furniture.
  • "We have jetpacks now"
  • Pike’s birthday is a holiday… CRAP!
  • Boimler freaking out over the fact he made Spock laugh is such a Boimler thing.
  • Hey, a reference to his sehlat!
  • I like how they are using this episode to also move the other plotlines forward.
  • HE MENTIONED PIKE’S REALLY GREAT HAIR
  • Triticale, as opposed to Quadritriticale.
  • I totally saw Mariner coming.
  • Dystopian San Francisco!
  • “Have you noticed their references are weirdly specific?”
  • “Hot Spock agrees with me”
  • "It’s a poster that is pinned up"
  • I feel like Tawny herself probably demanded a scene with Uhura
  • Ah, there’s the Boimler scream!
  • “Holy Q!”
  • “They had a Trelane thing going on.”
  • “He had to contour the hell out of the jawline”
  • “Oh, I already know.” Hahaha, they finally got out-future knowledged.
  • Oh god, are they going to steal a piece of an NX?
  • Oh, just a piece of it in the Enterprise.
  • The “Mistress of the Winter Constellations” strikes again!
  • Of course Ransom calls Una the hottest first officer in starfleet history.
  • Hahaha, 2D animation Enterprise crew because they are drunk!
  • All-time classic.
batmaniam ,

“WHAT THE HELL IS IN THIS THING!”

Vittelius ,

Oh, according to the entertainment weekly article Tawny absolutely demanded a scene with Uhura (or at least pitched it to the writers)

teft ,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

Of course Ransom calls Una the hottest first officer in starfleet history.

It’s because they are married in real life. Jerry O’Connell and Rebecca Romijn that is, not Ransom and Numero Una.

michaelgemar ,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@teft @startrek That is hilarious!

triktrek ,

Oh I didn’t know that. Is there some (real life) Star Trek connection that brought them together or is it just some coincidence that they both are on Star Trek?

Captain_Ender ,

Honestly if there wasn't a mention of Pike's Peak why are we even here?

theothersparrow ,
@theothersparrow@lemmy.one avatar

But seriously what does the Koala know can we even handle such knowledge

SpacedBear ,

Anyone else see Boimler do the Boim-walk to get away from Una the second time with Mariner there? I did not realize human hips could move like that.

teft ,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

Yes! I did the Dicaprio point at my tv when he started speedwalking.

Cantstopthesignal ,
@Cantstopthesignal@lemmynsfw.com avatar

My wife was crying she was laughing so hard from that. It was perfect.

lagomorphlecture ,

Cracked me up, I laughed so hard at that part.

triktrek ,

Or even just the way he was running to catch up with Mariner.

Navi ,

What an absolutely fantastic episode. Loved every second of it! As soon as it finished I just wanted to watch the whole thing again (but couldn’t because of stupid work)

triktrek ,

Did you not learn anything from Mariner? Work is gonna be there still five 45 minutes from now.

Calanon ,

Oh man, I really loved this episode. Very fun. Kinda sad we didn’t get to see Tendi and Rutherford live action though. Would be great to see maybe some of the SNW crew end up on the Cerritos…

Captain_Ender ,

In The Break Room it is Tawny and Jack heavily suggest they hope they get to return to the set of SNW. That with Pike repeatedly like "please don't break things" suggests the two crews will run into each other again... I'm hoping Enterprise crew accidentally find themselves on the Cerritos next time!

triktrek ,

Also, at the end of the LD Season 4 trailer, Mariner and Boimler mentioned something about “the Pike thing we are not supposed to talk about”. Maybe there will be some more LD/SNW developments.

triktrek ,

I hope the Enterprise crew gets to walk around yelling “Upper Decks! Upper Decks! Upper Decks!”

bappity ,
@bappity@lemmy.world avatar

THAT WAS SO GOOOOOOOODDDDDD!!! Couldn’t stop smiling through that whole episode!!
They were perfect for their roles in live action as well. Love how they kept their cartoony energy.

lagomorphlecture ,

When they’re in the corridor and Boimler husslea off, and you see him walking a crazy walk in the background, that really cracked me up.

FormerGameDev ,

Section 31 speed walking!

triktrek ,

You know the way Boimler was crawling under the communications panel, with his right legs at a 90 degree angle. It was just so perfect embodiment.

Osa-Eris-Xero512 ,

This was incredible and everything I could have hoped that it would be. 11/10, no notes.

milkisklim ,

The only thing I wished was for the Enterprise crew to have been in TAS style art animation at the end. But yeah. Great show!

Continuumguy ,

Still kind of hoping that one year they do a “Trials and Tribble-Ations” tribute episode where they go back to the Enterprise during TAS and splice in the LD guys in in the TAS style.

They could call it “Those Animated Scientists”

milkisklim ,

Perfect!

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

“Animated?”

“Yeah, you know, they were kind of stiff back then, so I call them that ironically.”

Manabi ,
@Manabi@startrek.website avatar

I loved all of it! I liked how they had fun with the crew being in the 2D Lower Decks style at the end, poking fun at it with the dialogue. Then they blamed it on the drinks, so it wasn’t really a fourth wall break.

varda ,

I have only one note: no live action Tendi or Rutherford :(

Otherwise: yes, excellent.

interolivary ,
@interolivary@beehaw.org avatar

Yeah such a shame we didn’t get the whole Beta shift gang, but that’s like my absolute biggest “criticism” of the episode

ki77erb ,

So many people were ragging on this idea. I think the episode firmly shut them up. This was top notch Trek! Fantastic from start to finish. I want more! Now they’re complaining about the upcoming musical episode? Haters gonna hate I guess.

Hypersapien ,

I’m one of the people who was ragging on the idea and I was absolutely fucking right.

And yes, I’m ragging on the idea of the musical episode, too.

ki77erb ,

Well I guess not everyone is going to like every episode, or every show for that matter and that’s ok. I can’t stand Discovery. I gave up somewhere in season 2. Just couldn’t take it anymore.

michaelgemar ,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@ki77erb @startrek Personally, I find SNW to be, by far, the best Trek since DS9.

The most recent episode was broad, but I still found it delightful.

ki77erb ,

Same! Great cast and great writing.

lrawsignal ,
@lrawsignal@mas.to avatar

@ki77erb @michaelgemar
I love the cast. But I love the cast of Discovery too. The writing has been better in SNW than disco, but there's still moments of awkward dialogue that feels wrong. Not as bad as discovery but still has those moments that pull me out of it.
I say that, but I also loved the hell out of the SNWxLD episode, but I loved it because I love both shows for different reasons I suppose. It's complicated.

GratefullyGodless ,
@GratefullyGodless@lemmy.world avatar

Well, you lasted wit Discovery longer than I did. I saw the first episode and the butchered Klingons, and that was as far as I made it into the series.

polymorphist_neuroid ,

I ended up being ok with the weirdly retconned Klingons - after all, Next Generation “butchered” the Klingons from TOS. The thing that kept me with Disco until season 4 was Michelle Yeoh’s character, because I fucking love her. That said, it does not really get much better than S1, and I gave up after S3.

williams_482 ,
@williams_482@startrek.website avatar

Poor Christine Chapel! Now she knows what the audience has always known: her relationship with Spock is ultimately doomed. Plus a delightful mix of guilt and fear that she could unwittingly cause Spock to never measure up to the vague but crucial future that Boimler mentioned to her in the turbolift, simply by trying to make the two of them happy.

That suuuuuucks.

hmantegazzi ,
@hmantegazzi@startrek.website avatar

I really didn’t expected the emotional moments, but they were all done so well

concrete_baby ,

So Boimler inadvertently causes Nurse Chapel to end her relationship with Spock and encourage him to go back to T’Pring?

Jestersage ,

Predestination paradox. In fact the entire thing is likely a predestinaiton paradox. “Activated 120 years ago”, which is caused by the imager at “now”; the reason why the two can go back home is because Tendi told them about the version according to Orion and mentioned her great-grandma being the discoverer, which is what let the past Orion to recognize the truth and probably themselves assigned it to Tendi’s great-grandma?

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Tendi just said her great-grandmother was on the ship that discovered it, not that she was the discoverer.

polymorphist_neuroid ,

…this little bit of cooperation between the Federation and the Orions probably improves their relationship a bit, which will eventually lead to Orions joining the Federation, which is how Tendi is friends with Boimler in the first place, which is how Boimler knows that not all Orions are pirates which is why Pike tones down his hostile response which gets them to a deal with the Orions which leads to…

polymorphist_neuroid ,

OMG! They managed to make that scene just so hilarious and poignant at the same time. Watching her facial expressions as she realizes what Boimler is telling her made me want to just scream at him to shut the fuck up and slap the shit out of him…but he’s just being dear sweet clueless Boimey. :(

Theme-wise, I think they’re setting up a comparison between Pike knowing his doom and Christine/Spock knowing their relationship is doomed. Knowing that, what do you do in the meantime?

Captain_Ender ,

Small note I LOVE that they're extending the "not all Orions are pirates" theme!!! LD did such a great job demystifying a race of people with Ensign Tendi and it only makes sense that their people have always been more than just a stereotype even during the TOS era. Was cool to see Boimler help change that perception with the Enterprise crew and confirmed when the Orion science captain saying "that's all we wanted" about being seen as explorers just like Star Fleet!

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Apparently their visit back in time was always baked into this timeline. Explains why Temporal Investigations didn’t get involved. Pretty cool that Tendi, through Boimler, had a hand in building the foundation for better relations between the Federation and Orions.

polymorphist_neuroid ,

Yes! Boimler is a great example of an ally here - he tells Pike, who he spends all episode worshiping, directly and politely that his bias against Orions is wrong.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • All magazines
    •