I get what you’re saying (I hope ;-) ) and agree that women are allowed to do things that men aren’t.
[TW: Suicide, violence] I also think there are important differences between male privileges and female “privileges”. Male “disadvantages”* are generally still in the control of males. Military service is (or at least was) something that men (as a class) did to themselves, because they were the rulers. Prohibiting women from working or having a bank account was not something women had control over. Men commit suicide more often than women, but a suicide is still something that is ultimately in your hands - being murdered by your (ex-)partner or some stranger in a park isn’t. Of course it isn’t really that clear cut: how much control do you have when you are suffering from depression? And how much are you to blame for not seeking help when you’ve been trained you’re whole life to be “independent” and not show (or even feel) emotions?
But while it’s definitely not clear cut, I still think there are enough systematic differences to make distinction useful. Especially as the male privileges are much more in tune with what our society values: people get praised for getting shit done (be it fixing cars or shooting them into space), nation wide stories about being a good listener or friend are much rarer. You can amass insane amounts of money, and people will actually admire you instead of calling you greedy, while at least in Germany people start to have prejudices if you have more than two or three kids.
(*english is not my native language so I’m not as nuanced as I’d like to be)
Maybe, we as men, not so much society start pushing that, instead of waiting for others to do it for us.
We need to counter Lad Culture with telling them that talking about their feelings isn’t a pussy action. That we don’t have to wait for a wife to use as a therapist and surrogate mother.
When you see men pushing the toxic policies of “suck it up” on other guys with no cares to the background information, we need to call out the toxicity.
Things won’t get better so long as we enable the worst
Friends and family are the best, or at least the first therapist you should see. An actual therapist is required when the other two failed. That’s how a sane family or group of friends should work at least.
Another thing that we as men don’t want to admit (generalized statement,) are that traumas we suffer can often come from a familial source, and that distrust can poison our attempts to reach out to others.
Worse, those traumas can give improper perceptions about how a family works, and give frustrations due to finding out that your previously assumed normal life was in reality quite damaging for viewpoints when confronting how all the easy lessons we were taught were dead, decayed, and buried by 1970, if not earlier, and we’re working on tertiary information from unreliable sources that are grasping to the past to maintain control in their own lives.
Am I only the only one who thinks comes off like “men arent like women, and therefore broken”?
Not having to spend an hour discussing my feelings is actually one of the things I like about my friendships. I don’t want long deep hugs, they make me uncomfortable. And I definitely don’t want someone opening up to me about their life struggles. That’s not the kind of friendship I like or want.
I wouldn’t call you broken, just as I wouldn’t call an asexual broken. I do think there are men out there who wish they could be more vulnerable though, and if the current culture stops or hinders that I think they deserve to say something too.
I tried therapy to figure out how to express emotions and the male therapist said I was fine and keep going the way I am. I can’t cry and can’t really name my emotions or have awareness of what they even are. It’s so ingrained that this is the way we are supposed to be that even the professionals aren’t always aware.
Find a new therapist. Part of what makes dealing with mental health issues so hard is that you sometimes really need to shop around for a therapist, which can be especially hard when you’re dealing with what you need help with 🫤
I mean it does because those things only make you uncomfortable because you’ve been conditioned your entire life to feel that way just because you’re a man.
Eh, I think it is more the fact that men aren’t willing to open up about shit when it is bothering them and they want to share. I don’t want to have a 30 minute share session at the start of all conversations, but it should be normalized that when a close friend asks how you are that you can say “Honestly not good because of X, Y, and Z and this is how I feel” without being made to feel like a freak.
As a human I have to say if you don’t recognise the negative issues you suffer because of our long history of social problems and messy biology then you’re absolutely delusional - men and women.
Sure: Read the article and reassess what you think it’s about. I for sure didnt walk away with the same impression you did, but I could see why I would if I read the headline and headed straight to the comments section.
At least read the article before you criticize it, because it’s nothing like what you seem to think it is.
I did read it and it’s riddled with shit I would never, ever want, and yet he presents it like it’s a bad thing. Here’s a choice example:
When traveling or running errands, and I saw a parent dealing with an exhausting kid, I could help and not be stared at like a creep.
I can’t imagine ever wanting to help with a strangers child. Not because I might be treated like a creep, but because it’s just none of my business. I would even go so far as to say that assuming they need help is problematic in itself. But he doesn’t address that; no, apparently men don’t help because we’ve been broken by society.
All my best friendships have been 99% ripping into each other and telling funny stories. Like I don’t tell shitty stories about work because I lived it once and I don’t want to live it again. No one else does either. Unless it’s to vent about someone because I’m angry. But I do tell funny stories about work.
Having said that even in the most masculine environments when anyone has had an issue or been pushed too fair the guys always rally and pick them back up.
Day to day shit is your own problem. The once in a month or few months is our problem and I’m here for you.
You boss was mean to you. You want to bounce other careers around or see if I can find someone to hire you? No, well grow up everyone’s boss is shit. Either leave or deal with it.
Your misses just cheated on you. Right come on I’ll get the guys and we’ll go to the pub, she’s a cunt you’re better off without her.
Also hand shakes are fucking great. I usually go for a shake and a quick hug. But the handshake is better.
@Rodeo interestingly, I'm learning a lot from this interaction. Like about how men normalize day to day misery and disconnection. So I'm very glad that this thread exists; thank you for being honest.
I find it toxic when people go on and on about minor problems that are in no way relevant to the people in the conversation and there is no way they can help.
All it is doing is bringing unneeded negativity into an environment. That’s toxic.
You want help? Yine I can help how? You want to ruin my free time when I’m trying to de-stress by going on about people and things that have nothing to do with me and I can’t help? Go away.
This really resonates, mainly because it’s so true. I think a lot of men these days are feeling lost, sad, lonely, and angry. Some of us think it’s because we have forgotten what it means to be a “real” man, and the answer is more bravado, more machismo. But maybe what we actually need is to start learning to communicate with each other on a meaningful level, to redefine manhood in a way that allows us to express emotions in a socially acceptable way, and start forming real, close friendships with other men.
It’s an important topic that is often brushed off due to the individuals that tend to bring them up. The problem is though, that the problems these individuals have are in part caused by the lack of emotional support men receive socially.
I’m not defending any of the macho know-it-all “gurus” that I’m talking about, but I’m just pointing out that it’s important for women as well as men to care about this issue and try to change it in their daily lives, because aside from being toxic to men, it also creates more problems and worsens the existing ones.
How do you try to change it? Just open up more serious conversations with men, talk about feelings, even if they look at you weird at the beginning.
It’s very interesting to have the view of a women that has transitioned to a men on the feeling side of things. I wonder how the transition is actually affecting his current relationship.
My experience as a man does look like what he talks about however, it’s not as crazy as he is saying. His depiction of manhood feels almost satire to me. Almost all of my interaction with men, I feel safe enough to talk about my problems, my feelings and my opinions on things, both personal or not.
Although, I am me and I do not represent all other men, It’s not untrue that men are lead to believe that they must be the one to shut up and provide for their community/family. Shut up and die for your family, you country. Shut up and do what you have to do. If you really do that, I think you just end up lonely, sad and probably really suicidal.
it’s not as crazy as he is saying. His depiction of manhood feels almost satire to me. Almost all of my interaction with men, I feel safe enough to talk about my problems, my feelings and my opinions on things, both personal or not.
It’s spot on for me. 9/10 times I open up to other men, it’s either diminished, insulted, or ignored. I count 4 friends who’ve actually listened to me. 1 ghosted me some time later. 1 listened rarely, only after I listened to him for hours. The other 2 are true chads and I wish life hadn’t separated us.
When I open up to women, it’s either insulted or saved and later used against me as manipulation.
I just don’t anymore. Only people I talk to are therapists.
Way too easy to say it like that. It really is a double edged sword situation. Over all, woman get way more harassed. This comes from a guy that says being a woman is better for like 15 years, than got a SO that grts harassed a lot.
Like even friends (not friends anymore) will grope or only do nice things cause they just wanna F her.
Not what I meant, I mean small things like before when I was socially awkward, people thought I was some kind of creeper… Now people just think I’m cute.
This sounds great to the base and a few wealthy dudes, but this is a real bad thing for literally everyone including Republicans - if they somehow did leave, it'd turn the remaining US permanently blue, plus they would immediately be invaded for their oil...
Men are also different from women. Not just physically but mentally. Part of the problem the writer had was not understanding how male friendships work and expecting a mirror of female friendships. Certainly it can be lonelier as a man but in some ways it’s just the way we are.
I’m just saying that men in general have a much easier time being alone. I don’t think we should always be alone, but more men than women have the ability to be solitary and happy at the same time.
I think the important thing here is that there’s absolutely no reason it HAS to be this way. These aren’t intrinsic properties of male and female friendships. They are driven primarily by cultural factors and have changed significantly even over recent history.
I’m just saying the cultures arise from the people. There’s a reason things are the way they are and it’s not some evil corporation or government trying to oppress us. At least in the west. Can’t quite say that about China or other Communist regimes.
Things are the way they are because people are forced into the culture they were born into and are pressured at every angle to stay that way or face social backlash.
I got called gay cause I got too excited while talking to one of my friends. Because it’s a common culture trait in America that any overly positive emotion towards another guy means your a sissy boy
They called you gay not because they thought you were homosexual but as an offhanded insult. The two definitions have been disconnected for quite a while.
Trust me it wasn’t just an insult where I grew up it had a seriously negative impact on my ability to socialize or form any kind of romantic relationship
You're right to a point, it's just coming off as dismissive.
Yes, men and women are built differently through biology. Yes, hormones give an innate edge for certain factors. One of them may very well be the ability to last without a social structure for longer than women. We've slowly built up our society with smoky mirrors of those facts around us.
What they're saying is that nature vs nurture isn't 100% one way or the other which I think you'd agree with. It's more you're both pressing pedantic points lol.
It does when it comes to closeness and intimacy with friends. Look at a lot of European cultures where kissing your friends is extremely common and closeness is normalized.
It’s all the anti gay shit that gets spread in America that makes men uncomfortable to be close and open with their friends
I really appreciate you taking the time to say that.
A side note to the above; men struggle to keep friends, especially as the years go on, but our group keeps growing (all initiated to the power of hugs and love).
I think it’s the openness that’s made it so much easier to stick together rather than fade away. I hope more men can open up and deeply bond beyond surface interests and common spaces.
Of course! Changing the world starts with changing the world immediately around you. You're truly doing good, even more so by opening your group to newcomers!
Ignoring the biological effects of testosterone on the male body is dangerous. This makes males aggressive, violent, and hierarchical. These are intrinsic and not driven by cultural factors. Sports exist for a healthier outlet for this aggressive and biological need for competition.
Lol nice. Well I’m sorry, if you lived in the US in a state that we frequent, I would get you a few hugs. Maybe you should just make a sign that says free hugs and stand in the middle of a public area. I’ll bet you would get some real good ones…
Easily possible. Grow up somewhere with a lot of macho man mentality with a toxic masculine father figure that wants nothing more than for you to grow up to be their clone that only like MAN stuff. Took me over 30 years to be hugged the way I didn’t know i needed to be hugged because I fell into a friendship with a woman that knew a few broken men.
The problem is not about you. It’s about your ability to accept another man who wants a “female” friendship. And apparently you don’t want any of that, which makes you part of the problem.
I’m talking about a woman who wanted to physically be a man but is still mentally programmed as a woman could not understand male friendships. It’s not that men don’t have friends or deep friendships. It’s just that they’re usually different from the opposite gender.
Oof they are awful, and indicative of the issues raised in the article. So many of the men commenting are defending the “man” stereotype as “natural”, and ignoring that men have issues existing in society probably because of the pressures of that stereotype. Nobody wants men to feel isolated and lonely and kill themselves 4x as much. I don’t think that’s a “natural” part of being a man. At least it doesn’t have to be.
This is why it’s hard for me to take these types seriously.
They complain about not getting compliments, but refuse to compliment each other for fear of sounding “gay”. It’s like they only count compliments if it’s from a sexually interested woman they happen to find attractive.
But women, especially the attractive ones, know better than to compliment men randomly for fear of “leading them on”.
Probably significantly more times than anybody cares to admit. People aren’t exactly nice to each other today, but holy hell the known atrocities of ancient people. Who knows what got omitted or hero washed?
Being a retired soldier my perspective is thus: the winners that are writing the history books aren’t necessarily the winners, but those who killed the most.
Often those who deviate from the laws of war in order to cheat and win in horrific ways then get to write about the other side being the bad guys…
Those cucumber farmers in Iraq sure didn’t seem like the Al-Qaeda/ isis that I was told they were. Afghanistan was similar. Nobody was the hero involved in that.
It worked for Hitler, and the Republican Party seems to be taking straight from his playbook. (“Mein Kampf” means “my struggle” and was written in jail in ~1924 during his 5 years in prison for a failed coup attempt. Trump appears to be trying to speedrun the whole thing.)
In order to stop Nazis you have to stop the ideology of fascism which is unfortunately sorta baked into America’s racist puritanical capitalist genocidal origins. Hitler even took notes from American Jim Crow policies and racist/poisonous border controls. We have to fight this colonialist abusive mindset at all levels, from uncles and stepdads and cops to CEOs, investors, and politicians.
People think Elon Musk is an idiot (he is, but that’s beside the point I’m making) because he acts like the rules don’t apply to him.
The thing is, for the most part, they don’t. He breaks the law with abandon because he knows he can get away with it and what punishments that can and will be handed down to him will be so miniscule that he can hand-wave them away each time he’s faced with them.
In other words, part of the reason people like this are grand fucking idiots is because they’ve literally had no pushback, like ever, for their fucking chicanery.
What’s really funny is that you can actually replace the name “Elon Musk” in my first sentence with a litany of other names “Donald Trump,” “Rudy Giuliani,” and so on. There really is a whole swath of society who are the biggest fucking morons you will ever meet because they’ve been completely enabled by a system that refuses to punish them because they have money.
Arguably, the worse and more brazen issue is another nail in the coffin of “these motherfuckers are absolutely stupid as shit” because they think we can’t see through their charade and how much more out-in-the-open their corruption is now. They’re not even hiding it.
The "not hiding it" is a flex.
It's the "hey, look what I can do" playground mentality expressed by a hyper-rich hyper-powerful person. It's "grab the legal system by the pussy."
We need a Poor Nobody Black Man clause to the legal system. If we really want the legal/justice system to apply equally to everyone, then everyone’s identity should be obfuscated and presented as being a poor black man of no fame or renown.
It shouldn’t have to be this way, and it’s regrettable that people who naturally fall under one or more of those categories experience a different system than if not, but that’s exactly why it could be effective. It could either see the system changed to be less prejudiced, or it could see actual justice being done to those who deserve it most.
Or I’m just totally out of my mind and don’t realize it.
Dave Chapelle is now a rich piece of shit, too, but there was a point where it seemed like he understood this disparity in policing behavior. Considering this sketch was from around 2005, it’s kind of wild to see how things have only become worse and more brazen since then.
You'd be hard pressed to find a single episode of Chappelle's Show where he doesn't make direct or indirect reference to police brutality - back when I was young and dumb and unaware of my own privilege enough that I still thought it was a rarity and he was actually making jokes.
But despite his other recent controversies, I haven't heard anything whatsoever to make me think he's backpedaled on that topic. Has there been some event that I missed?
Better title is Republicans are working to kill democracy by using corrupt right wing Supreme Court.
I agree Biden should pack the court to get average citizens to respect the Supreme Court again. Because the rulings the current court are making are not what the majority of us want.
Don't vote for Republicans, they don't care about our democracy.
In this climate I don’t see how Biden could pack the court. It would never clear the senate. Even though on paper Democrats are in control it is only on paper and not real life.
The rulings the court makes should be based on law not opinion, even if it is popular opinion. That being said accepting bribes from people that you are ruling on their cases and making rulings on made up stuff doesn’t really smell lawful. Those bribes would get anyone fired in corporate America but seems AOK for this banana court.
This court will go down in the history books (in some states, I’m sure FL won’t allow it) as the worst court session yet. Roberts will be known for a enabler of the illegitimacy of this court. Roberts response instead of leading is don’t say bad things about us you might hurt our feelings. He seems concerned about the image but isn’t doing a thing about it.
The best thing I can think of is vote out the party of hate, greed and power and see what we can do after the elections.
Biden was asked in the 2020 Primary about packing the court and he said "no". Unless I'm remembering this wrong and I don't think I am. And it looks like Biden will be our choice again for the election, so I don't see this changing, unless he says he NOW would pack the court.
I'm for packing the court. Only other way is impeachment.
I would assume that Biden said that because he knows it is not practical and would be a waste of his limited time and political power.
Obama made a similar compromise in not pushing for single payer but instead focusing on the compromise that became the ACA. He used basically all of his first term to get that passed, and while it may not have gone far enough for a lot of progressives--including myself--I sure am glad we have that instead of nothing!
And it has to clear the house as well which definitely won't happen before 2025. I wish people understood the current limitations of the presidency and paying laws in general.
Because the rulings the current court are making are not what the majority of us want.
The job of SCOTUS is not to rule based on what the “majority” of people want. It’s to check the constitutionality of the policies and laws passed by the other 2 branches.
They aren't doing that either. Just last week they released back to back completely contradictory rulings, one of them allowing businesses to use intrinsic characteristics to decide that they don't have to make a cake for you, but somehow, that's not ok when another business (colleges) does it.
They've decided that the pure fantasy of a religion is the most important characteristic a US citizen can possess.
Fuck impeachment, they are frauds & half of them should be incarcerated for taking bribes.
To start, your confusing the cake case with the one from last week that had to do with a website for gay marriage (cake happened years ago). In both, they ruled that the 1st amendment rights of free expression and freedom of religion supersedes state nondiscriminatory laws.
For the record, I’m completely opposed to the rulings. But what you claim to be “pure fantasy of religion” is not something a large portion of the population would not agree with as they believe is some sort of faith, and the right to believe that faith is something that is protected by our 1st amendment whether you like it or not. I mean, it’s something that makes our country great is it not?
In regards to affirmative action, it was bound to be overturned due to its own discriminatory nature. Are there massive discrepancies in access to quality education, funding, wealth, and opportunities on a socio-economic and racial basis that is widespread all throughout society? Of course! But affirmative action is NOT the answer or solution to this, again due to its own discriminatory nature (and therefore, unconstitutional).
The whole bribery thing with Roberts and Thomas is a separate issue, and there needs to be severe consequences for such actions. Does SCOTUS have massive problems currently? Yes! But the faster we realize that it was meant to be a non-partisan institution with the sole purpose of interpreting the constitution and not ruling based on what the majority of people want, the faster we’ll realize that the institution is currently broken and we need to be very careful with what solutions are implemented (and no, packing the court is not a solution. It’ll make the whole situation exponentially worse)
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