businessinsider.com

kobra , to Work Reform in Gen Z is unhappier at work than any other generation. Here are the two things they want.

From the article:

  1. Salary
  2. Career growth
Gloria , (edited )

What is a totally reasonable demand. Ask a CEO if he would do his work if he would get paid peanuts.

Bdtrngl ,

Assuming the CEO does any real “work”

CaptainSpaceman ,

Wow, its almost like companies have taken away all the incentives to work!

bobs_monkey ,

So that’s why no one wants to work anymore!

goferking0 ,

Nah can’t be the company’s fault, could only be due to lazy workers now /s

AtariDump ,
FMT99 ,

Compromise: I can do mandatory work outings and a ping pong table.

Sabata11792 ,
@Sabata11792@kbin.social avatar

I dong get it. We bought them a pizza just like 12 million dollar consultant suggested. They are supposed to make the green line go up now.

Thassodar ,

Beatings will continue until morale improves!

ImplyingImplications ,

The career growth is really amazing. I work at a unionized place that is required to fill positions internally before outside hires. When a senior employee retires from a top level position it will be filled by someone at the company. Typically someone in a mid level position. Then there’s a chain effect where now that mid level position is open that will go to entry level workers. The only outside hires tend to be for entry level jobs.

It’s great because when you talk to the senior staff, almost all of them started at the bottom and worked their way up. This gives them better knowledge of how the whole operation works since they’ve done the jobs below them, and also a little empathy!

Agrivar ,

Sounds awesome! Are y’all hiring?

PriorityMotif ,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

I hate this kind of thing, it creates a hirarical culture instead of promoting people by merit. Basically younger people get screwed in favor of older people. It also means that nothing will ever change within the company.

CptOblivius , to Work Reform in Gen Z is prioritizing living over working because they've seen 'the legacy of broken promises' in corporate America, a future-of-work expert says

I just saw Docs, nurses and staff who had pensions for 30+ years just get butchered as the new Hospital system took over. Routed it all to standard 401ks. Why put your soul into a company. They will never come through. That ship has sailed.

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

My only hope is people look around at the fact that one of the few ways to still get a pension is through union work, and the current unionization wave continues into something bigger, better, and greater than we've had in the past.

raynethackery , (edited )

That’s what this new wave of layoffs and threats of layoffs is to help curtail.

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

That’s one of the risks of not being unionized. My employer can’t touch my pension (not that they would want to since they all came up from the union rank and file too) because it’s all managed through our union contract and there’s no chance in hell that we ever approve a contract that gives them that kind of control.

Kyrgizion ,

Even that isn’t complete protection. The government can always change the rules as they go. Not to mention a complete breakdown of society wouldn’t exactly do wonders for pensions and 401k’s either.

themeatbridge , to Work Reform in Gen Z is unhappier at work than any other generation. Here are the two things they want.

Unrelated of course, but Gen Z is also paid less and have fewer opportunities for advancement than other generations.

Corporations are baffled, and will consider having more pizza on layoff days.

const_void ,

will consider having more pizza on layoff days.

And they will only order two pineapple pizzas and you will like it!

Introversion ,

But no clams & white sauce pizzas? Man, we are truly living in dystopian times. /s

TheFriar ,

Which is funny, because we millennials ALSO had fewer opportunities and we’re getting paid less.

themeatbridge ,

I know, right? It’s almost as if an entire generation decided that they would mortgage future generations and the environment in order to have nicer things than their parents and their kids.

TheFriar ,

Worse: it’s that they leveraged four entire generations (and counting) and the environment in order to have a higher degree of nicer things than their parents had over their parents. Up until our generations (gen X is included), every generation had it better than the previous. But thank ol’ Ronnie Reagan and the culture of deregulation that literally jump started the beginning of the end of late stage capitalism.

Even in the EU, where things are “better,” the culture of deregulation changed the course of history. European citizens do have it better, but when comparing against the US, it’s like, hard to be much worse. Now, of course this is all relative and from a hugely biased ethnocentric perspective, but being the “leaders” of the world, the decision made in the US have a huge ripple effect across the world. We exploited more people, and the resulting explosion of profits led to more power for money in politics, which led to worse exploitation across the world, which led to higher profits, ad Infinitum. We’re only a few decades on from the deregul-eighties and the effects have only grown exponentially as they amass more power via more wealth, and more wealth via more power.

lanolinoil ,
@lanolinoil@lemmy.world avatar

Wait – is it capitalism is inherently inequal and unsustainable, or ol’ Racist Ronnie did this? Is it both and he accelerated us?

TheFriar ,

We’ve been reaching the logical conclusion to capitalism, and we were going to anyway. But he jump started the beginning of the endgame. More profit, lower margins is always the end goal. This was inevitable. But he clicked the process into hyper speed.

lanolinoil ,
@lanolinoil@lemmy.world avatar

I tend to agree – Greed and money becoming the only virtue… Doesn’t even matter how you get it anymore even a little bit.

Son_of_dad , to Work Reform in Gen Z is forcing a workplace reckoning that should have happened years ago

We wasted so much time figuring out that none of this bullshit is logical or fair, getting mad and saying we wanted change and being ignored. Gen z just straight up walks out if they don’t like what they see and I’m all for it. My daughter is 12 and I’ve been teaching her about her rights, and her dignity at work, and that minium wage=minimum effort, that a work family is not a real thing, that you never do “favors” for a company that can afford to pay you, and that unions are a must. I’m not surprised that gen z refuses to let themselves be abused, it took me way too long to realize that i can tell my boss to eat shit.

commandar ,

it took me way too long to realize that i can tell my boss to eat shit.

I think the difference in upbringing you're describing is a huge part of it.

Millennials went through spending our entire early adult lives being gaslit about how all the ways we were being abused were ultimately somehow our fault because our parents refused to recognize the systemic issues we were facing.

We may have come to the realization late, but we can certainly make sure younger generations know that they can and should call bullshit when they see it.

Patches , (edited )

Gen Z has no choice but to ‘Rise up’. They are facing a lifetime of 2 full time jobs plus a ‘Gig’ if they want to come close to what was a hard opportunity to Gen X. They’re already accepted that what the Boomer had will never come to pass again. It’s downright despicable.

I fully support them. We are in this together.

KpntAutismus ,

We’re just fed up with their bullshit. the workers currently have a monopoly on Labour, so we can demand actual wages. until they replace us all.

TeenieBopper ,

I think Zoomers also have the benefit of not having Boomers in the work force as a counterweight. For 20 years before COVID, the two largest generations in American history were in the work force together. Now the majority of Boomers are retired, power in the workplace is leaning towards the workers instead of companies.

TryingToEscapeTarkov ,

I wish Boomer would retire. These fools love to work and say shit like “I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t have a job”.

Potatos_are_not_friends , (edited )

“You can go die, Margarot. Leave the job, and like disappear into your expensive house and wait until sweet death gets you.”

tigerjerusalem , to Work Reform in Gen Z is prioritizing living over working because they've seen 'the legacy of broken promises' in corporate America, a future-of-work expert says

It reeks of those headlines saying that millenials/gen zs are “losing interest in buying cars and houses”.

Motherfucker, interest has nothing to do with it. We can’t afford it!

AngryCommieKender ,

Well interest does come into it. Y’all can’t afford the interest payments on the loans you’d need. Can’t even find a decently priced used car.

tigerjerusalem ,

Oooh, cool word play! I like it.

Also, I find it funny* that we somehow can afford rent but are not qualified to pay a mortgage with monthly payments that costs the same.

*enraging

chrizzowski ,

I think this is a huge part of the problem. Rental property owners are just a liability buffer for the banks. There should be mortgages at a 1% down payment for first time buyers with a proven track record of making rent payments on time. Maybe the rates are a little higher, with the extra interest giving the banks motivation for taking on the extra risk. Then after the first term the owner can renew with a normal rate.

Doesn’t help with the demand issue, but maybe all the rentals will flood the market after nobody is being punished for not having $100k laying around because they’re busy paying someone else’s carrying costs.

Mango ,

We can afford rent?

GnomeKat ,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The article talks about millenials not being able to afford houses…

tigerjerusalem ,

I know… I read about it on other sources too and mixed the headlines too. Sorry for the confusion.

DillyDaily ,

Right, like the majority of my millennial friends also work to live, not live to work, it’s just that living is so damn expensive that after we’re done working enough to pay rent, there’s not many hours left in the week to live.

I’m incredibly privileged. I have no debt, no loans, and housemates to split bills with. I only do 20 hours of paid work per week, and my hourly rate is pretty damn decent for my industry (I’m a coordinator in a community centre, I make $32AUD an hour).

I enjoy my work life balance and I wouldn’t have it any other way, I have time to care for my chronic illness properly, and time for friends, and family, and to volunteer in my community for passion projects that could never in a million years pay the bills.

But being in your mid thirties and splitting rent with other people is tough, I fortunately don’t want marriage or kids, but I can’t see how I’d make it work if I did, babies can’t help me split the rent, and most housemates don’t want to live with a crying baby that isn’t theirs.

So when my friend leaves his fun job for a grind company we know sucks our your soul, but it pays 8x as much and it’s “just for 2 years until the deposit is saved for and the baby is born” then it’s completely understandable why the next 24 months of my friends life is consumed with work. Because he needs that work now, so that he can live later.

But 2 years becomes 5 years becomes 10 years because first it’s the GFC, then it’s the housing bubble, then it’s the mini recession, then it’s covid, now it’s whatever the fuck times were living in.

And at some point for millennials (and many younger Gen X’ers) living became surviving and we work to survive, we don’t even know what thriving looks like.

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

I’m a milennial. I live in a country where we try not to work ourselves to death. Even my employer encourages an active separation between work and personal life. I do not remember what my monthly or yearly salary is, but I am able to have a good personal life with alot of spare time and money for my hobbies.

When I talk to my friends over the pond to the west, I’m always shocked about what I hear. 40+ hour workweeks, hardly any time off from work, etc. I also have a couple of friends in Japan, and their stories are actually worse compared to across the western pond.

Me and my girlfriend rent, which is somewhat unheard of around here. After the war, the economy was based on owning your own home. I made a few stupid choices when I was in my 20s, and I’m paying for them now by renting. The prices of homes are skyrocketing, so that every time I save some money, the prices increase and I have to save more to get a loan. Tough luck, but that’s the way it is. I do not want to get a side hustle just to kill my self getting enough money to buy my home.

dustyData , to Work Reform in Frontier Airlines CEO says the pandemic made workers 'lazy' and less productive: 'People are still allowing people to work from home, all this silliness, right?'

In today’s episode of “White male cisgender affluent, mentally disconnected from reality, emotionally immature CEO, has an irrational hissy fit in public over someone or something that doesn’t let him be cruel and controlling over other humans”…

theGrey ,
@theGrey@lemmy.world avatar

What does them being white or cisgender have anything to do with it? An idiot is an idiot regardless of the race or gender of the person.

Unnecessary labels for the subject at hand, imo.

dustyData , (edited )

Have you noticed that most (almost all) CEOs are white male cis gendered? I’m sure it’s a coincidence though, they definitely deserve their wealth beyond imagination, as they are objectively superior human beings, and I’m 100% sure they didn’t do anything unethical to amass their incalculable power and affluent life style.

Cyan1113 ,

Other countries exist and have CEOs

TonyOstrich ,

What does that have to do with the makeup of CEOs in the US? If you look at the demographics of CEOs here vs the demographics of the population here, the CEO demographics aren’t even close to that of the population. They usually aren’t even close to the demographics of the companies they head. Doesn’t that seem kinda odd?

paultimate14 ,

Just a quick search for the CEO’s of the biggest companies provides a nice list. ceoworld.biz/…/the-worlds-most-influential-ceos-a…

In the top 10, 7 are cis white men, along with these 3:

  1. Karen Lynch, CVS
  2. Amin Nasser, Aramco
  3. Sundar Pachai, Alphabet

Bringing up sexual orientation, gender Identity, and racial identity is what these billionaires want. Plenty of “girl bosses” have shown they are perfectly capable of exploiting labor. Peter Thiel is a perfect example of how you don’t have to be straight to oppress people. The CEO of Microsoft isn’t white.

UAW just announced a strike against 3 manufacturers today, including GM whose CEO is Mary Teresa Barra.

Then of course there’s tons of CEO’s and billionaires from Asia, Mexico, and the Middle-East. Calling out Cis White Men does nothing but cause further divisions between members of the working class. There’s plenty of CIS straight white men out there laboring and being repressed by a variety of different demographics.

ruckblack ,

Oh my God, give it a rest. If you think white men are the devil just say so.

Poggervania ,
@Poggervania@kbin.social avatar

So if he were a non-white trans CEO, does that suddenly make it ok to do stuff like this?

Being a shitty CEO - nay, a shitty human being - is not mutually exclusive to white people.

Bipta , to Work Reform in Gen Z is unhappier at work than any other generation. Here are the two things they want.

Adequate pay and basic human kindness?

No, it's the workers why are our of touch.

ghariksforge , (edited ) to Work Reform in Jamie Dimon says employees can go work somewhere else if they don't like long commutes into the office, thinks remote work doesn't cut it

Another dinosaur from the past century resisting 21th21st century.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

Twenty-oneth century

kat_angstrom ,

I think it’s pronounced, “twenty-firth century”

floofloof ,

“twenty-firth thentury”

FTFY

ccunix ,

That’s what Mike Tyson calls it, so who are we to argue?

Jaysyn ,
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

Meanwhile, back in reality, my company isn't upside down on commercial real estate & likes making more money so we are getting a smaller office to house our servers & equipment.

some_guy ,

My company did the same. We had a six week assessment period where everyone was required to come in two days per week. Once that data showed no major difference in output, we got a smaller office (for receiving and such) and everyone was told the office is optional. Smart business that kept people happy.

HubertManne ,
@HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

Mine was a bit hesitant but they are now talking seriously about getting rid of more offices and they had done one pass on that before. I would sorta like them to have an office subscription

circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

This right here.

Find me a company deeply invested in office real estate (in particular, expecting a return on that real estate), and I’ll show you a company against remote work.

The real detriments don’t exist. True, I have met workers that don’t like remote work: companies have latched on to those people as an excuse to continue what is otherwise an entirely transparent narrative.

If anything I gain productivity by working from home. I see companies that don’t support that kind of work as entirely being behind the curve.

Deceptichum , to Work Reform in Gen Z is prioritizing living over working because they've seen 'the legacy of broken promises' in corporate America, a future-of-work expert says
@Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

I’m curious about how different Gen Z is from Millennials here, because everyone in my age range that I know seems to share this sentiment with them?

Ottomateeverything ,

I’m a millennial too, and I see some of this but it only seems to be some industries. I’m a programmer and my coworkers are like 90% about “the grindset”, but people I meet who are in health and wellness are 90% the other way. I also feel like cities and large metros tend to be more focused on work, and less urban areas are more focused on living.

I would say a lot of millenials are this way too, and it’s not fair to say it’s just a gem z thing, but it’s far from the majority… At least around me. There seem to at least be pockets of it, but overall I feel like it’s closer to 20%.

With gen z, I feel like the people are way more heavily skewed the other way. I’ve had gen z general contractors and such just cut the bullshit, tell it like it is, and show that they value ME more than THEIR BOSS. It seems much more universal in their generation.

But that’s just my experience. I dunno which is more universal.

ThePyroPython ,

So you’re saying that Gen Z just lay the truth out and finish their statement with “no cap”?

DaCookeyMonsta ,

I feel like millennials have a “It is what it is, guess ill work til I die” attitude whereas Gen Z have more of a Bartleby the Scrivener “I’d rather not” energy.

UsefulInfoPlz ,

Gen x here and we seen it coming as well but no options for us at the time. I don’t blame any of you. Corporate greed and the great 401k lie is bullshit. They want us to work till we’re dead. Screw them.

7u5k3n ,

The great 401k lie?

HarkMahlberg ,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.social avatar

Can't speak for OP, but I don't look at the 401k as a stable retirement vehicle. It's a vehicle to pump "dumb money" (read: casino chips) into the stock market. If the stock market downturns just before you retire, if the firm managing your 401k makes bad investments, if another 2008-style real estate collapse happens, your retirement fund suddenly has less money in it than you hoped, so you're gonna have to work longer.

pdxfed ,

if the firm managing your 401k makes a bad investment

The administrator of your accounts has zero control over most of the funds available in them, their rise or fall, and your funds are separate from any investments that financial institution may or may not have made.

If you have a 401k with fidelity, or ADP or Schwab or Trowe Price or whoever, some of those are banks, soke finance companies, some payroll, anyway, the point is for each, the money in your account is yours to allot and invest as you wish based on yhe invesrment options your company chose or negotiating with them to administer your company’s plan. The admin makes money by admin fees, not by taking your money and reinvesting it in something you don’t know about. Granted, yes if there is a stock market crash, most financial companies will similarly overall struggle, but they have lots of arms and operations (mortgage loans, commercial, consumer banking, investment banking, etc.) and they are 100% all disconnected from the money in your 401k.

That said, 401ks are awful and a sham that were pushed on an uninformed public and we’ve only just begun to see the effects as the first generation reaches end of work age…and can’t stop working. It’ll continue. Props to anyone fighting and organizing against it or trying to avoid as much as possible. System fully bought and broken by greed.

Psychodelic ,

What’s the point of your first two paragraphs? The person you responded to is 100% right. The point is to pump money in to the fuckin stock market so the wealthiest people can profit off that “investment”

pdxfed ,

The point was is the plan administrator has no control over whether the value of his account goes up and down, which Op said they did. I agree with everything else Op said but think it’s important since most people don’t understand the mechanics to learn about them so added the correct info.

AtariDump ,

When the plan administrator is picking the stocks in their “Target Retirement 2055” account, I’d say they have a large amount of control.

Now the S&P 500? Probably no control. But is it truly the S&P 500 or some bull shirt index fund from the 401k provider that’s not 100% following the S&P 500?

pdxfed ,

The portion of the comment I replied to, which I highlighted at the top of my response was that Op had said that “if the company managing your 4401k makes a bad investment”, concerned that (among Ops other accurate concerns) your 401k funds could be used elsewhere without your knowledge or permission by the plan administrator, which they can’t. So I corrected it.

Lazy people immediately REEE when someone doesn’t immediately jump on the tribal circle jerk and agree even when parts of a statement are incorrect. Ops point was overall correct and a good one and correcting something that was wrong doesn’t mean I disagree with the rest of it. Lookup false dichotomy.

AtariDump ,

If you’re investment is in the hands of a company that’s manually picking and choosing you’re in bad hands.

Better?

HarkMahlberg ,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.social avatar

Thanks for the informed take.

the money in your account is yours to allot and invest as you wish

While true, I'm not an investor, I'm a software engineer. I don't know good investments from bad, so if I tried to invest myself as an uninformed person, odds are good I will lose a lot of money very quickly. And becoming an informed investor is a lot of time and effort I don't have. I rely on the managed plan because I know there are professionals handling it.

based on the investment options your company chose or negotiating with them to administer your company’s plan.

My employer actually switched our 401k's from ML to John Hancock. I had no say in this, I don't know if JH is more or less competent as a firm than ML. So if I have fewer choices because I don't know how to invest and would prefer someone to manage it, I have even fewer choices because I don't even get to choose who manages it.

That said, 401ks are awful and a sham that were pushed on an uninformed public

This is where we most agree. Most people don't know how to invest, so they either let the retirement funds handle it, or they try it themselves. If they try it themselves, they either have to learn how to invest, or they have to get lucky. If the funds handle it, they can be lured in by "stable, lucrative" investments that turn out to be bad, like Mortgage-Backed Securities. Even informed investors can lose money. No matter which path we follow, it all becomes gambling in the end. It's unacceptable that retirement funds are treated as such.

EldritchFeminity ,

The 401k replaced the pension. It used to be that a company would pay for your retirement, now you pay for your own by being forced to pay into the stock market, and it doesn’t go nearly as far as the pensions used to. People are working well into their 60s or older, because 401k’s often don’t pay out enough to live on. It’s another way that companies have figured out to avoid having to pay their employees while pumping up the value of the stock market at the same time.

stoly ,

In the late 80s and early 90s, all the badly managed companies went bankrupt and convinced business friendly judges to delete pensions, too expensive, you see. This left a lot of boomers and their parents with nothing all of a sudden.

The 401k problem is that you are now responsible for managing things and all the liability that brings. Pensions were managed by professionals.

gravitas_deficiency ,

As a millennial: I think it’s the dichotomy between “I play the game even though I hate it because it genuinely feels like the only viable option to have a remotely satisfying life” and “fuck the game”.

JDubbleu ,

As an older Gen Z I concur. Even those of us who aren’t completely fucked are extremely anti-corporate with little loyalty to any job. There’s a guy named Jordan Howlett who I feel sums up the average Gen Z attitude towards all the bullshit in the world really well.

Don’t get me wrong I still work hard and try to do well at my job, but the second I hit my time for the day I’m gone. Work is strictly transactional. No one expects their employer to give them money for time they didn’t work, so I ain’t about to give my employer time for money they didn’t give me. They’ll also fire my ass the second they need a stock bump, so I’ll be damned if I’m gonna stick around if I find something better.

paraphrand ,

It’s a gradient.

Pips , (edited )

Actually the biggest difference I’ve seen isn’t in effort but ability. I work with everyone from Boomers to Gen Z and by far my Gen Z coworkers have the hardest time with being given a general task and completing it without detailed instructions. Even with detailed instructions, I often have to repeat the instructions due to mistakes and check my younger colleagues’ work more closely.

I think this is, in part, because Gen Z grew up with things that just worked or that they needed to go to a third party to fix if there were issues. Boomers fixed their own cars and did a lot of DIY home repair, Gen X and Millenials both learned to navigate computers and the internet before there were any real instructional guides or helpful UIs. Shit, we used to program games on our calculators for fun. I think many in Gen Z just never had that because many of those DIY elements require proprietary tools now. A smartphone just works and is designed to be so intuitive a baby can figure it out. It’s not their fault, but it does mean that some critical thinking skills are absent because they’re used to outsourcing the solutions to those problems.

But, again, I have never perceived that they’re not hard workers. On the contrary, I’d argue my Gen Z coworkers, when they’re on their game, are way more efficient than everyone else and definitely work smarter, not harder, which I try to learn from them.

stoly ,

I manage teams at a university. Gen Z types tend to be very motivated but won’t easily do useless busy work just cuz you think they should. You need to motivate them. That’s the boss’ job, though.

The real problem was the previous generations who happily devoted themselves to their bosses getting richer.

Pips ,

That’s pretty true of every generation. If you give anyone a seemingly boring task with no explanation why it matters, they’re going to suck at it. What I’m saying is I can’t give my Gen Z coworkers an open ended task without detailed instructions, even when I explain why it’s important.

Kepabar ,

Man, I barely graduated from high school because I saw the entire thing as busy work.

My grade in any class was dependant on how much the tests were weighed versus any class or homework. Sleeping or reading through class was my usual.

Now that I’m older I see the value in building the discipline needed to do that sort of busy work because if I don’t my house falls apart and such, so there’s that.

I wish it didn’t take me so long to learn it though.

Pips ,

The other half that a lot of kids (me included when I was younger) miss is the stuff that seems useless is still building a base of knowledge and shaping how you think critically. Just knowing more stuff allows you to connect more things in your head, enabling you to problem solve in completely unrelated areas better. It’s not obvious how helpful that knowledge foundation is until you have more life experience.

And hey, at least you got the discipline now.

doingless ,

Half of genx too but nobody ever mentions us.

Kyle_The_G , to Work Reform in Gen Z is forcing a workplace reckoning that should have happened years ago

the whole workplace culture is so anti-worker its unreal, its almost adversarial like the landlord-tennant relationship. it’d be great if there were a “you take care of me, I take care of you” attitude for employee/employers but these days it feels like they want to squeeze every last bit of productivity out of you and pay you as little as possible for your efforts, and everyone wonders why its so hard to attract tallent. its out there, just take care of your workers!

agent_flounder ,
@agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

No almost about it. It is adversarial in a lot (maybe most) cases. When it is only, and always, about money, with no other priority the company has a strong incentive to screw over and exploit workers more. And if beholden to shareholders, squeezing blood from every stone is a requirement.

Chasing dollars sure seems to be at odds with virtually anything good and decent.

Kyle_The_G ,

even in my experience (research/healthcare) this is a reality, theres so much preventable brain drain from people in critical positions who have just had enough.

Womble , (edited )

Companies, by their very nature, are authoritarian structures. You receive orders from on high and by and large are only able to discuss how to implement them (if even that) with the threat of removing your livelihood as discipline. Unless there is some level of worker ownership or worker representation at senior management level companies are more akin to feudal power structures than modern ones.

OutrageousUmpire , to Work Reform in Jamie Dimon says employees can go work somewhere else if they don't like long commutes into the office, thinks remote work doesn't cut it

“We’re not going to make that decision because we’re pandering to employees”

Is there such a thing as “pandering to employees”? The employees are doing the real work to keep the company going, while Dimon’s work apparently includes appearing on news stations ridiculing said employees.

Hopefully the next headline we hear about J.P. Morgan will be a mass voluntary attrition.

Chatotorix ,
@Chatotorix@lemmy.world avatar

This is the state capitalism is currently. Raising morale of the employees is now “pandering”.

sibannac , to Work Reform in Gen Z is prioritizing living over working because they've seen 'the legacy of broken promises' in corporate America, a future-of-work expert says

I want to put the effort I give earning money to be put towards bettering my life. All my lemons are being juiced for someone else’s lemonade.

LemmyKnowsBest ,

I agree. And I got extreme with it. because when it comes to making sure all the money we earn goes to ourselves and to our own betterment, the biggest obstacle in the way is the egregious cost of housing. In order to get on top of that hurdle, we either have to become part of the real estate industry, or entirely opt out of it. Well I entirely opted out of it.

VanLife. Yup I’ve been doing van life for the last 3 years. Complete with Solar panels, plumbing, climate control, bedroom, kitchen, storage space. I am in my van right now in one of my membership gym’s parking lot. Every dime I earn goes to me and to whatever I choose, NOT to the extortionate housing industry.

meep_launcher ,

I’ve lost all trust in employers. From large corporations to non-profits to mom and pop to tech startups- I’ve been in it all and I learned businesses do 2 things to their employees:

  1. They lie to you
  2. They underpay you

I’m now freelance musician and teacher and I’m on track to make more than any employer paid me. I’m still in debt after having the rug pulled from under me from my last job, but I’m digging my way out on my own. I will never let one person be in control of my income ever again.

fosforus ,

I’m now freelance musician and teacher and I’m on track to make more than any employer paid me.

That’s great! Is there some part of this that you think doesn’t fit into free market capitalism? Seems like you’re living the original american dream there.

ZzyzxRoad ,

Is there some part of this that you think doesn’t fit into free market capitalism?

This might be the most passive aggressive comment I’ve ever read.

The answer of course would be “not working for someone else.”

sailormoon ,
@sailormoon@lemmy.world avatar
LemmyKnowsBest ,

No. There is a classy way to do it. I’m doing it the classy way.

AtariDump ,
Sagifurius ,

Yeah no…So every communist either: !) Figures out how to not be a worker and then abandons the thought 2)Actually manages to be in the revolutionary council but may get assassinated later on 3)Never had any motivation at all, writes articles like this.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Bro, stop saying “communist” you are just embarrassing yourself.

Can I put forward a motion that we start treating this cringe McCarthist shit like the edgelord fodder it properly is and make those who use Communist scarecrows the laughingstock they deserve to be ? Like these idiots can’t grasp Market Socialism to save their life and are still high on gas lighting from the 1980’s.

Sagifurius ,

I’m not American or a fan of market socialism, because I understand it perfectly well, not because of a lack of understanding. Socialism always leads to greater restrictions on the person, and you can’t deny that, your cronies literally advocate for it. Take socialized medicine, politicians immediately start passing laws and regulations to restrict your choices in order to keep costs down, and present it as ethical because “we’re all in this together”. Next thing you know, a workers compensation board has reached the level of petty that a carpenter can be fined for wearing a sleeveless shirt in July, a rule passed because of the risk of sunburn to the shoulder. I am not making this up, I was the carpenter.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Oh Baby cakes! I know socialism passes restrictions on people but are you seriously so petty that you blame workers protections nipping you for wearing a light shirt on sunny day as the height of your problems? Courting sunstroke on a worksite isn’t fucking smart.

And I am sorry but if your government is cutting costs to your healthcare you should probably organize because even a good system needs occasional correction. It’s a long fucking way from letting people be swamped with debt to keep their loved ones alive just a little bit longer. I know people in perpetual fear that a spate of unemployment will destroy their long term health because they can’t afford the insurance themselves. No system is perfect but you can whine about it not meeting your standards but private healthcare is only so great as you keep working. You get fucked up at work and all those “choices” you’re so proud of are just gone.

Sagifurius , (edited )

It was an example how fast they can start micromanaging the smallest details, and you knew that. You don’t think a government had time to make rules like that is an issue? You’re intentionally missing the point, they’ve done this to all aspects of society. I want the fucking guns back too, and any semblance of national pride. You organize anything effectively, the current federal government invokes the war measures act and rescinds it immediately as soon as the review process starts, because there was a glaring loophole left in the old legislation, that it doesn’t get reviewed to see if it was necessary, if they quit using the power in time. We literally have zero rights in Canada because of this

Drivebyhaiku , (edited )

… The War Measures Act? The one that was repealed in like the 80’s?

Wait, are you griping about the Emergencies act? The one that requires the sign off of two levels of democraticly elected government Provincial and Federal and a full independantly run inquest every time it is enacted? Ohhhh you’re a Convoy cocksucker! It all makes sense now.

There are exactly two places in the world out of the host of existing democracies that have a constitutional right to firearms with zero public safety checks requiring limitations like licencing and and if you like the US or Guatemala’s gun policy and private healthcare system that much you can just move there instead of ruining this country by trying to turn us into America’s mini-me.

And really? No protections? You really REALLY don’t understand Canadian law at all do you? You know… You could actually read the results of the inquest right? It’s been out for a year.https://web.archive.org/web/…/final-report/

Or maybe you just think even the most soft touch of the protective measures a government makes to protect the welfare of the people and infrastructure key to it’s it’s ability to operate is too harsh ? No wonder you’re so upset, you just can’t handle a democratically elected body telling you that you can’t do absolutely anything you want because you are an entitled whiny baby. Grow up.

Sagifurius ,

So you don’t remember the government claiming it needed a 30 day extension and then suddenly deciding it didn’t need it at all, when the Senate made it clear they were actually going to review whether it was needed? That the two levels you’re talking about? Cause they dodged that you authoritarian clown.

Drivebyhaiku , (edited )

You mean that time the commission heading the report I linked said they wouldn’t have their homework done on time because they still had work to do on the French half of the report to have it ready to got to meet Canada’s national language requirements to have a full bilingual document and then managed to get everything polished off in time with the translation? Yeah they didn’t need two levels of government to rubber stamp a time extension on the report because no one is generally harmed.

Ohhhh no… We’re all gunna fall into ruin because they cared about the longstanding efficacy paperwork… Dumb shit. Don’t believe what your Conservative asswipes try and feed you. They know you won’t bother doing your own fucking homework.

Sagifurius ,

The kangaroo commission that was exactly akin to police investigating themselves after they dodged a risk of real oversight.

Sagifurius ,
Drivebyhaiku ,

What you think this is a gotcha? This is normal process for when a law that has never been enacted before gets used for the first time and gets challenged. This is part of how the system works. Laws are drafted and passed but basically inert until they are used. A law that is never used never has victims or damages. Only once laws are used can their use be challenged if they do not fit their internal rules exactly (because real life is messy and law drafts inexact) then they go under review. If one Justice kicks up a stink it goes to the Supreme court. The Supreme court decides if the laws were correctly followed. News anchors love the red flag stage because it’s prime drama and people gobble up any implications of “government overreach” like it’s proven fact which feeds their suspicions about how they are living under tyranny.

If the Supreme Court does find the government DID overreach then there will be rulings to appease damages. One justice is not the Supreme court. Even if they rule it was an improper use this continues to be a normal exercise of democracy BECAUSE the government will pay and face consequences. It is a ultimately GOOD thing that this is going under review.

The Justice system in Canada is fairly impartial because they are not an elected body but “what is the law” is at heart a philosophy question so not every judge rules the same. That’s why they have a big panel of them for these courts. To ensure that a majority of senior executors of the law conclude fairly.

To be frank this is the normal check to the Government. Those rights you were claiming we don’t have are being defended by this system of internal review with potential consequences FOR THE GOVERNMENT. These are your rights being defended, BUT they have not yet been proven to be violated, basically an alarm has been raised as it should in cases lile this and they have to go figure out if it was a burglar or a cat.

What you people don’t seem to fucking get is that the system has safeguards. They are being used effectivly but all this requires a bunch of people with full time jobs to prepare, debate, deliberate and fine tooth comb everything. It takes time because legal challenges at this level take years to resolve but that doesn’t keep pace with the 24 hour news cycle that wants you stupid, mad and plugged in RIGHT NOW and the Opposition party will use any dirty trick to use your conditioned suspicions to their advantage. You are falling for the grift. You can stay mad and clutch your guns to your chest like a security blanket and wave your flag all day but the system is functioning. This act was in effect only ACTIVE for 10 days of the 90 made possible by the passing of the original permissions. The Government applied the law to their understanding of the draft and accepted the risk of all of this with full knowledge of the legal consequences to the government. Now the courts figure out if the force used was excessive and that will make precedent to limit any future uses of the act.

That’s the system.

Sagifurius ,

It’s not really new legislation. It’s a mildly updated war measures act. Anyways, an actual legal scholar just disagreed with you and the kangaroo commission.

Drivebyhaiku , (edited )

“Mildly”… Uh no. The War measures act conflicted with the Human Rights act and was amended to reflect the civil rights protections. The two do not look even remotely alike.

While I agree the Emergencies Act isn’t “new” legislation because it was drafted 30 years ago I take umbrage with your idea that that is the relevant issue. It sat on the books in mint condition never used for a very long time. It may not be new but the seal is freshly popped.

So.

The government can technically draft any law they want (provided it doesn’t explicitly violate constitutional protections at time of draft) but that it doesn’t mean that the exercise of those laws protect the government from the consequences of using them if the enactment is incorrect or if it violated constitutional rights in the enactment beyond the original scope… A law never used is just legal theory. You can debate it but it was passed and it’s a pain to remove from the books and you usually need to put something in it’s place to do a similar job if it’s there for a “potential” use to defend against something that may or may not happen.

The Emergencies act is in effect brand new in the system because it has only recently effected actual humans and the law can now be applied to evaluate the effect in it’s actual real world use and actual people can be the recipients of compensation for damages.

That “kangaroo Court” is no fucking joke. The government could stand to lose millions of dollars in damages if the door is opened to removing civil case protections… Which is why the Supreme Court is an independent body thay concerns itself with the charge of defending the law. Governments come and go but that’s the oath they take is binding for life or until they retire from the court at age 75.

Elected representatives are not generally experts in law, they are just provided guidance by system appointes experts to protect themselves from potential liability… but those experts are not the Supreme court panel. The justice system is a bunch of people whose life work is the protection and binding law to protect the welfare of the citizens of Canada and the democratic process because they have legitimate enforcement power and perform the duties of being a check to the temporary power of individual administrations.

Sagifurius ,

You aren’t even arguing against the statements made, just blowing irrelevant bullshit.

Drivebyhaiku ,

I see your brain shorted out but your ego is still chugging along. If you can’t see the relevance maybe you should spread some dust bane around that empty head of yours, close up shop and give it a real college try on another day sport.

Sagifurius ,

You don’t even seem to know what in particular I was referring to as being “Kangaroo”.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Enlighten me then.

the_post_of_tom_joad , to Work Reform in Gen Z is unhappier at work than any other generation. Here are the two things they want.

Another dumb-ass op-ed that starts with a stupid premise and gets worse from there. Look how desperately they try to make it seem like workers are different by generation. watch them desperately thrash and twist to avoid the truth, that conditions are their fault.

They sampled 18-25 y/os then skipped straight over the rest of the workforce to workers 65 and older.

No talk about compensation differences between these groups. No talk about 26-64 year olds… I want to find the author and personally tell them how disappointed i am in their work, but it was probably ai or one of those gig word count jobs and they wouldn’t even care

Buddahriffic ,

Yeah, I’m a millennial who has hated those same things since probably around the same time gen Z started joining the workforce. I bet the only real difference is that gen Z didn’t join the workforce with the illusion that it wasn’t so bad because millennials were already talking about it. And gen X cynicism (which is deserved, not trying to open a front in the “generation war” here) likely planted the seed for millennials to notice it.

SoleInvictus ,
@SoleInvictus@lemmy.world avatar

I’m seeing the same. I’m an older millennial that joined the workforce in a conservative state, so I kept my mouth shut about shitty work conditions so I didn’t end up fist fighting some of my coworkers. Gen Z is entering a workplace full of disgruntled millennials like myself and we’re together making an environment where it’s safer to tell employers we’re tired of being taken for granted.

veroxii ,

Gen X here and it has been common knowledge since 2000 that the only way to not fall behind your peers in terms of salary or career advancement is to change jobs every few years.

Existing staff getting paid less than new hires has been a thing for at least 25 years.

“The best way to get a raise is to get a new job”

Buddahriffic ,

Hell, I think it was boomers, if not the silent generation, who first learned the hard way that company loyalty can screw you. If that shit started in the 80s, it would have caught the silent generation.

The whole generational conflict is just another attempt to divide people so they are less likely to unite effectively against the ones who put their profit ahead of everything and everyone else.

stoly ,

Younger Silent and older Boomers definitely got the biggest shaft of all. This was the group of people who were promised a pension and regular retirement. Then the idiots who manage the companies ran them into bankruptcy and got business-friendly bankruptcy judges to dissolve the pensions, leaving retired and retiring people with nothing to fall back on. Younger Boomers looked at that and went “sounds good to me!”.

stoly ,

I’m a Xilenial and agree 100% with what you said. Younger Gen X started to notice these problems, but when your 35-ish year old Boomer parents are living the life, they shut you down without mercy. It took until the youngest Millenials/Older Gen Z for people to be able to talk about this openly.

toasteecup ,

Older gen y, been railing against the bullshit as long as I’ve been immersed in it. Glad others are taking up the torches and pitchforks.

Jakdracula , to Work Reform in Gen Z is prioritizing living over working because they've seen 'the legacy of broken promises' in corporate America, a future-of-work expert says
@Jakdracula@lemmy.world avatar

America isn’t a country, it’s just a business. That business minded model for society has drained all decency out of it. The US is a kleptocratic, psychopathic, oligarchy that has rotted out the brains of formerly decent people who have become the monsters we all see in stories like these. It will take multiple generations to fix this, if that is even possible.

GrayBackgroundMusic ,

America isn’t a country, it’s just a business

It’s three businesses in a country sized trench coat.

niktemadur , (edited )

Your brainwashed mesmerized grandparents and their lazy non-voting baby boomer children let Reagan through the door in no uncertain terms, and in that environment the 80s “hostile corporate takeover” and junk bonds fever set in; with bottomless greed as the virus, which like herpes, seems to stick around forever.

EDIT: a word

Tinidril ,

Lazy voters stayed home and let Trump in. (With a strong assist from the Democratic party.). That’s not what happened with Reagan. Reagan had incredibly broad popular support. I don’t know if that’s more or less damning of American voters, but no amount of additional turnout would have saved Carter.

Chakravanti ,

It’s not a psychopath. It’s a sociopath.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

It’s both.

Most CEOs match all the criteria for psychopathy or sociopathy

fosforus ,

Clearly more than the average, but not “most”. Last I remember the figure was something like 12%.

In a small company it sure makes a difference if your senior management are sociopaths, but if the company is large enough that you’ll never see the CEO I’m not sure what difference does it make that he doesn’t care about you personally.

a_wild_mimic_appears ,

those 12% are loud tho, and tend to shift the “company-overton-window” :-(

Chakravanti ,

You’re just wrong. Psychopath is just a less skilled version of the same damn thing. They don’t make it CEO’s except that rare instance of inheriting the wealth. Then, sure, we get a great example of it like Elon. But then they’re just that.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

As a diagnosed sociopath you have it completely backwards.

Chakravanti ,

You would say so wouldn’t you?

uriel238 , (edited ) to Work Reform in Gen Z is forcing a workplace reckoning that should have happened years ago
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I opine this is the advantage of growing up on social media and being used to deliberating. When I was a young clerk in the late eighties, we were pressured not to ask questions about cruel treatment, (which factored into my suicidality.)

When zoomers see something weird or harsh, they go on social media and ask their homies my boss keeps hanging around looking down my blouse. Does anyone else think it’s super creepy? So they get a lot of rapid feedback.

Maybe they’ll lead the revolution toppling capitalism.

z00s ,

I hope so, very much.

My boss keeps hanging around his yacht, while I can’t afford a house. Does anyone else think that’s super exploitative?

Tangent5280 ,

Who’s up for a barbeque and guillotine siesta this friday? Please RSVP before wednesday so I know how much food I need to buy in advance.

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